I'm trying to get a handle on the idea of writing a simple story with complex characters, as opposed to plots that are needlessly complicated to make up for characters that are flat. Any examples you guys can provide of movies that do this well?
Hey Stephen Floyd Here's the webinar Dan MaxXx is referring to. It's free so you can check it out. I attended and it was quite insightful. Best wishes on your writing bro!
Captain America: Civil War (as a CGI comic book movie) has a more inretesting conflict between personally damaged characters than many oscar nominated movies.
@Craig - interesting perspective on Capt. Would you say his arc came and went in his movie (from skinny boy to bulky hero)? He certainly evolved there.
1. First movie: A young man who dedicates himself in the service of his country. Even becomes a puppet of the army as he entertains soldiers on stage with show girls just to be in the army.
Civil war: Goes against his country and almost every country on earth, releases prisoners and becomes a fugitive.
2. First movie: Sacrifices his life and love to save people.
Endgame: Gives up being a hero for a simple life with the woman he loves.
3. First movie: Young man known with moral values.
Civil war: Almost kills his own friend/another hero.
These things are definitely not the same. And it's about him not the world. Plus there are so many more through all the movies.
Yes, all that is true. But that is plot and story. Capt never changes who he is. He doesn’t start as a coward that becomes brave. He is the ultimate Boy Scout. As a 90 pound weakling he just wanted to do the right thing. As the super soldier he was able to do it.
Nearly all movies have a character arc. Capt is the exception that comes to mind. He is consistent from beginning to end. Even the classic elevator fight scene. He gives them a chance “anyone want to leave before we start this”.
There must be change in a story. But Capt bends the world to make it fit his version of moral right.
He is one of my favourite characters from childhood. Then we have Stark. Who changes from 100% selfish to 100% selfless.
You are so on point for Stark. But exact opposite happens for Captain. Examples that I gave are very clear especially number 2. Plus neither Stark was ever a coward. And he never changed his know it all attitude either.
Even Endgame elevator scene and the fact he makes fun of his own phrase " I can do this all day!" is just clearly shows the change he had.
Honestly I was so bored by Captain in the first Captain movie. He got more interesting through all the movies by his unexpected choices unlike his character represented in the first movie. That's arc my friend.
Craig is right, Cap has no arc. But that’s part of his schtick, to be stalwart and unchanging in the face of adversity. Doesn’t mean he’s a weak character because we can still identify with him emotionally, he just doesn’t have an arc.
Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri
Filth
Split
12 Angry Men
The Disappearance of Eleanor Rigby: Her
The Disappearance of Eleanor Rigby: Him
Good luck!
Thanks. Twelve Angry Men seems like the quintessential example of this idea.
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Stage 32 did a free webinar of "Green Book". Simple plot. Complex characters.
Just about every great American movie is a simple plot. Movies are all about characters.
Stephen Floyd, absolutely. And Filth as well. It is extraordinary.
Hey Stephen Floyd Here's the webinar Dan MaxXx is referring to. It's free so you can check it out. I attended and it was quite insightful. Best wishes on your writing bro!
https://www.stage32.com/webinars/Breaking-Down-the-Oscar-Winning-Script-...
2 people like this
I believe characters are all that counts. The actions and reaction of a person should be what drives plot.
If plot drives your character they are passive and therefore (in theory) the story is about the event and not the character.
1 person likes this
Captain America: Civil War (as a CGI comic book movie) has a more inretesting conflict between personally damaged characters than many oscar nominated movies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wuoj01ZqFU
Seda Temurci and the very best thing Capt has no arc. He is the same at start as he is at the end. All the change happens in the world.
@Craig - interesting perspective on Capt. Would you say his arc came and went in his movie (from skinny boy to bulky hero)? He certainly evolved there.
Craig,
1. First movie: A young man who dedicates himself in the service of his country. Even becomes a puppet of the army as he entertains soldiers on stage with show girls just to be in the army.
Civil war: Goes against his country and almost every country on earth, releases prisoners and becomes a fugitive.
2. First movie: Sacrifices his life and love to save people.
Endgame: Gives up being a hero for a simple life with the woman he loves.
3. First movie: Young man known with moral values.
Civil war: Almost kills his own friend/another hero.
These things are definitely not the same. And it's about him not the world. Plus there are so many more through all the movies.
Yes, all that is true. But that is plot and story. Capt never changes who he is. He doesn’t start as a coward that becomes brave. He is the ultimate Boy Scout. As a 90 pound weakling he just wanted to do the right thing. As the super soldier he was able to do it.
Nearly all movies have a character arc. Capt is the exception that comes to mind. He is consistent from beginning to end. Even the classic elevator fight scene. He gives them a chance “anyone want to leave before we start this”.
There must be change in a story. But Capt bends the world to make it fit his version of moral right.
He is one of my favourite characters from childhood. Then we have Stark. Who changes from 100% selfish to 100% selfless.
You are so on point for Stark. But exact opposite happens for Captain. Examples that I gave are very clear especially number 2. Plus neither Stark was ever a coward. And he never changed his know it all attitude either.
Even Endgame elevator scene and the fact he makes fun of his own phrase " I can do this all day!" is just clearly shows the change he had.
Honestly I was so bored by Captain in the first Captain movie. He got more interesting through all the movies by his unexpected choices unlike his character represented in the first movie. That's arc my friend.
Craig is right, Cap has no arc. But that’s part of his schtick, to be stalwart and unchanging in the face of adversity. Doesn’t mean he’s a weak character because we can still identify with him emotionally, he just doesn’t have an arc.
A cynical cafe owner has stolen letters of transit
The woman who broke his heart turns up with her husband and needs those letters to escape the Nazis.
The core problem of a classic movie. Simple plot, incredible characters.
12 Angry Men. It's short and one location and relies solely on character and dialogue.