Screenwriting : Which script contests matter? Pretty much none of them. by Phillip E. Hardy, Prolifique

I tend to agree with this notion. I won't enter Austin's screenplay contest again. The notes we got indicated that they were not using actual readers anymore. I am sure that is due to the volume of submissions but..they really were atrocious. We also got a headsup that the "second read" person had talked about our script on a facebook group and we quietly joined same said group to read the discussion. It actually wasn't negative but they were basically asking questions on how to determine who the protagonist was given the exact scenario of the script. I didn't get involved in how it was discussed but I also realized that 18-23 year old readers not understanding what exactly a protagonist is when I stop entering contests that employee a lot of them. We both submitted for Nicholl and we still submitted a film for Austin. But not a script. Disclaimer: I have not had a single high finish or win since the mid 1990s. The film festivals and fellowships back then were a completely different thing. I probably won't attend Austin again either. Getting to deal makers has become a statistical anomaly and it's not that I don't like the assistant's assistant and general office admins. But I can get them on the phone and chat with them from home. The barrier of access at festivals has grown as the number of voices trying to get a flick made has grown. That's good because...more voices. That's bad because less face time with people who can actually green light something. Or put something into package form or just circulate a script appropriately. And the agents/managers meet-ups have gotten to be about the same thing.

As Han Solo said to C3PO in "The Empire Strikes Back," :Never tell me the odds." :)

Aim for fellowships funded by studios.

Warners Bros TV fellowship is the fastest way to be a working tv writer.

Next best thing now is probably Imagine Impact. $40,000 for a 12 week bootcamp, mentored by working professionals.

A contest should just be considered a stepping stone. If you win or place high enough in a major contest more people will probably read your screenplay. Personally I never have nor will I ever enter one.

No disrespect to Evan Littman....he runs a reputable consulting company for writers, producers and execs in the industry.....but he's wrong on this one, and it's been proven over and over by people who have won other contests; got doors opened to them, or representation/management; and who then became full-time "working writers" with careers - or who at least gained some financial benefits as a result.

John August, who isn't a big fan of most contests, either, asked writers on his Twitter account last year if contests helped their careers. Dozens..maybe a couple hundred, actually...responded. And that's just the people who actually follow John August on Twitter.

While there are obviously many contests out there...and more every week, it seems....the fact is that many writers got doors opened to them as a result of placing in or winning reputable contests outside of the two that Evan Littman mentioned. I don't care what the actual percentages might be - the facts are the facts. And this whole creative industry is long odds anyway - for writers, actors, directors, producers, filmmakers, composers, etc. etc. Any reputable contest that can potentially open a door for a writer, and can prove that it has done that, is good enough for me to believe in.

Best fortunes in your creative endeavors, Phillip!

I think that there are maybe half a dozen worthy contests out there (y'all know 'em). The rest are for draining your wallet and good for ego pats and blowing a little smoke up your skirt but feelin' good's gotta be worth something'. Right?

probably a good 5 comps out there that will "help" your career if you make it to finals. By help I mean genuine bona fide advice, mentor, networking, meetings etc. It may never actually result in that elusive sale, but it may make you a better writer, open some doors, get a small writing job or provide contacts for later on for your other scripts.

But the majority of low level comps are waste of time for career development unless you just want some prize money. (and hey, nothing wrong with trying to make a few G a year via this). But if you want to be a genuine career writer, low level comps not the way to go.

The reality for all of us is that seeing your work on a big screen with your name in the credits has a very very low chance. But you send letters, enter respectable comps, pay for pitch sessions, use blacklist etc to try and increase your minuscule odds status to marginal odds status!

Entering comps is akin to standing on golf course in lightning storm holding up a golf club - it may slightly improve your odds of being hit by lightning but the reality is it wont happen.

If you really want to get your name out there as a writer via a competition, then Nicholls is way to go. But heck, you're script better be A1 top shelf stand out stuff otherwise it's got no chance. It's no place to "wing it" or test the water. And the cop buddy action film probably wont cut it either.

Everyone has to come to their own conclusion about competitions. For me, I rather pay for genuine coverage that will help shape my script than enter a competition. Occasionally I do enter higher end respectable comps but with the exchange rate, it can be expensive for me so I have to be selective. I work full time just to stay poor.

I have never entered Nicholls, but hoping to next year with suitable script.

Stage 32 member Max Adams won Nicholls & Austin the same year with two different scripts. Her contest script was produced and she’s a WGA member for 20++ years.

Luck is always involved but craft separates Superstars from average. Same as any profession. There is one Lebron James and there are 250 NBA bench players, but the bench players are better than local YMCA ballers.

I have done a few contests. They are a great way of getting feedback. But the one thing you do have control over is quality of work. So I can’t completely agree with the math.

Nicol winners get a bottle water tour as part of the deal (I seem to remember reading on their website). Plus a lot of people read the winning script as a matter of course, so that can’t be a bad thing.

I am not really do contests anymore. I am putting my fate in my own hands.

I've never done a comp because I can't afford it (fixed income). Does anyone know about Final Draft's Big Break contest? It says that finalists get meetings with executives and representation, but I never see anyone talk about it.

Sofi Odelle FD Big Break is the other grand daddy contest before the Internet boom. They’re one of the few contests that has a Awards Event at Paramount Studios Lot. Winners receive $$$ and meetings.

Good post Phillip. However I am not sure I agree with your numbers but maybe I am missing something.

Anyway, You said Nicholl received 6,895 entries for their contest in 2018. You said there were 149 semi-finalists, yet you divided by 250,000, the total number of screenplays floating around instead of the number of scripts that were entered in the contest. That is you came up with your just under 0.0006 figure. Out of the 250,000 screenplays floating around less than 3% entered that contest.

If you used the number entries instead of the number of screenplays floating around like I believe you should have to figure out the odds of being one of the semi-finalist you would have come up with just under 0.015 instead of just under 0.0006.

If you are right and there are around 250,000 screenplays floating around and say 150 or so are sold in a good year the odds of selling one would be around 0.0006. So, the odds you came up with for making the semifinals in the Nicholl contest would be the same as actually selling a screenplay which could not be the case.

Anyway I do agree if someone goes into this screenwriting business thinking that winning a contest or placing is going to help then launch their career they are mistaking. However winning or placing in a highly respected contest would give you something to stick in your query letters or whatever that might help get more reads and the more reads you can get the better your odds of making contacts which is probably the most important thing in this business.

I don't enter contests but that is something I kind of regret not doing when I started out writing screenplays.

150 or less spec scripts sold per year for WGA pay scale to companies with studio distribution. Those are the deals Industry people pay attention to. Spec sales to indie Mom & Pop shops don’t move the needle.

I'd like to know where the 250,000 guesstimate came from (I don't think it's accurate). I'd like to what you mean by 'floating around'. Just because someone calls their writing a screenplay or script doesn't mean that it actually is. It's my understanding (unfounded) that there are about 30,000 scripts 'floating around' in the either and that something less than 5,000 (again unfounded) are even worth calling screenplays. I do know (based on conversations with Agents, Managers & some Showrunners) that there likely is a little under 1,000 screenplays in the marketing foray early in the season. The studios & Networks manage to crank out maybe 150 films/shows in any one year.

The issue is not the number of screenplays available as it is the number of WORTHY screenplays available. Trying to find 'em is kinda like taking a sip from a fire hose.

I must apologize to all for my incorrect math post yesterday. I must have been sniffing glue. I threw out the 250,000 figure in my post. It's not relevant to the post about Nicholl's high odds. The stats should have been divided like this:

1) 9 Nicholl finalists divided by 6895 contest entrants = 0.0013

2) 149 Nicholl semi-finalists divided by 6895 contest entrants = 0.0216.

Once again, my apologies.

Thanks, Dan.

Doug,

That's total BS. There is no shortage of great scripts available. If there were, then optioning or purchasing spec scripts would be few and far between. Or hiring writers as a result of their impressive spec scripts for something else would be few and far between. Or writers gaining representation and meetings with gatekeepers and decision makers would be few and far between as well.

You should go to Stage32's "Success Story" page and see what's going on for all of those writers. I don't think they achieved the levels of success that they've achieved because they gave a secret password, or because they're friends of RB. They all wrote great scripts. Period. And that's just here, and from a small segment of the "unknown writer market.".

And the producers and the one studio development exec that I know have tons of great scripts, too - from WGA pros to non-WGA writers. Phillip Hardy, who has many great scripts out there with many different producers and execs, probably knows there are a lot of great scripts out there, too

Here is the link to the Stage32 "Success Story" page for you to look at when you get a chance. I hope it will help you change your mind.

https://www.stage32.com/scriptservices/success-stories

I think winning or placing in any contest, big or small, is helpful for writers at my level who query smaller, lower budget independent producers. It helps them pre-qualify the material so they know if they request a read it won't be a complete waste of their time.

Steve. I agree. My agent quit taking submissions years ago because almost all of the ones she got were so awful. So if you can say you won or placed in a legitimate contest more people would probably be willing to read it. Contacts are everything in this business and it is hard to make contacts if you can't get people to read your screenplays.

A.S. I don’t know if the around 250,000 screenplays floating around is correct or not because I was just using the number Phillip was using. I got the 150 figures off the internet which I am assuming were studio type projects people had to report. There are probably thousands that weren’t reported. I know I sold a couple of screenplays that I now weren't reported. I was really just trying to show Phillip that maybe his numbers might be off. I have worked in this business for a number of years so I know how things really do work.

If it makes you feel any better, there's over half a bllion blog sites on the internet. The chances of having a well-written screenplay read are therefore significantly higher.

Bill C: I know! There's a lot of great scripts out there. I read them all the time.

I've never put much faith into a screenwriting contest. I do know professional writers that recommend them. I've known writers that consulted for them. I guess they are good for some people. For me, I'd much rather spend my time networking. The wonderful thing about the internet is that you can reach just about anybody. If you have the money you can pay a script consultant to review your script, give you coverage, and if they like it enough they'll get you connected. The first "real" agent I ever had came by recommendation by a producer friend. I feel your odds of success are vastly improved by knowing people. Shoot, I've had scripts read by the likes of Dean Devlin simply by asking the right questions and being friendly.

Phillip: I hear you. I find it troubling when people make dumb-ass statements that attempt to perpetuate falsehoods about this business, or any business. I read great scripts from unsold writers a bit, but not as much as you. I've also read quite a few from the BlackList's Best Unproduced Screenplay List, and also had read many others when I lived in L.A.

Imagine if you weren't a writer and managed a $300,000,000 film development fund. All you'd have to do is put the word out to a few agents, or ever just a few producers. Within a week, you'd be swamped with so many great scripts and your head would be spinning in so many different ways that you might think "hmmm...maybe I should just put the money in Amazon stock instead." Heh-heh.

Reputable contests are great, though. I know you've advanced your career through them, and much kudos to you for that. I also love to read the "Success Story" pages on the reputable contest. Those success stories alone should provide a lot of joy and inspiration to writers just as much as they should provide validation and credibility to those contests.

Best continued fortunes in your creative endeavors, Phillip!

Geeze Bill C. I'm honored that you think me to be such a momentous icon that I'm worthy of your trolling and vitriolic personal attacks. I recall a private message from you in which you threatened to have RB throw me out of his forums. That's okay – it's his forum to do with whatever he likes (with/without cause). It's my understanding that personal attacks are discouraged in his forums but perhaps that doesn't apply to you.

The comments I make in these forums are intended to help and guide entry level screenwriters and up-n-coming independent film makers based solely on my personal background and experience. I try to avert fantasy and avoid personal attacks. It is nice to have a fan club, thanx Bill.

Doug. Well, first off, you're additionally mistaken if you think I'm a fan of a person who continually makes false blanket statements about cinema, the film business, and the service providers in it, and who then plays the victim when someone responds to the contrary.

When anyone makes erroneous blanket statements like you made here, I reply and express my opinion and views, which are shaped and formed by today's realities. I don't like when people make false and sour-grapes blanket statements like "Hollywood sucks", "films suck", "writing schools suck", "paying to pitch sucks", "contests suck", "consultants suck", etc. etc, and especially without any real tangible evidence that any of those things do indeed "suck.". Every one of those blanket statements is patently false. And those were just some of the false statements that you've made, and just in the past year or so.

As a writer, you or anybody should strive to attain realistic and credible views in your "belief statements", and not present distortions to any degree in false blanket statements that attempt to malign and slander.

Contrary to your sour-grapes thinking, it's not hard to find a great script. Even here on Stage32, whenever a contest is concluded and the winners are announced, the Stage32 rep who writes the announcement usually includes a sentence or two about the "so many great scripts they had to choose from," and how it's hard to pick one winner. And that's just here, and that's just from writers who aren't established professionals.

On a website that is devoted to the creative industry, I'm surprised when people not only make such erroneous blanket statements, but continue to make them over and over. At least the few others who used to do that don't do that anymore, and even deleted all of their false blanket statement posts. One even publicly apologized.

Regarding your "personal attacks" comment. You make statements like "films suck", "Hollywood sucks," "can't find great scripts", etc. etc. Who is doing the "personal attacking" on writers, filmmakers, producers and basically everyone in the industry when they make false blanket statements like that, Doug? Me? LOL. You folks who do those sour grapes attacks always try to twist it around when someone refutes your false statements.

In any event, if you or anyone else makes false and erroneous blanket statements about the industry, its service providers, or the state of cinema/television/media, I will express my views to the contrary, and I will present factual evidence and statements to refute those claims - just like I always do, and which is always the opposite of what sour-grapes blanket statements folks never ever do. Ever. And if you think that's "trolling" and "personal", then you're wrong once again, and so be it.

And if you really are trying to "help and guide people", as you stated above, then you might want to refrain from untrue blanket statements that perpetuate sour grapes attitudes and that condemn this industry in one way or another. What you should write about is relevant and constructive ways for those folks to actually learn matters like theories and techniques, and write about constructive ways to navigate within the industry, instead of saying things like "Hollywood is a sewie hole" (your recent words); "trying to find worthy scripts is kinda like taking a sip from a fire hose" (your recent words); and "nobody makes good movies" (your recent words) etc. etc.

I hope all of this makes sense to you.

I'll side with Doug on this one. I think he'd like my satirical look t Hollywood, "Yesterday's Cabbage", though not likely to ever be produced

Man this is getting real old.

A couple of months ago, I read a Stage 32 blog by a successful US screenwriter who urged writers to consider tapping into the booming Chinese film industry which can't seem to get its hands on enough scripts.

Here's an idea. For all the great scripts floating around that will probably never see the light of day in Hollywood (which is I feel has seen better days and is a limited market anyway), why not adapt these great scripts to include a Chinese character or other significant connection and pitch to a Chinese producer? From memory, there's billions of production dollars to play with in China.

Depends on what you are looking for, I suppose.

I would be happy to sell a couple of screenplays to help fund my coastal peace sanctuary for writers and artists. It won't cost much to build a few luxury, eco-friendly, hempcrete hideaways with optional holistic pampering services from massages to forest bathing. So important to take healthy breaks whilst immersed in intense, artistic endeavors.

Why stop there? Here on the Central Coast, we have million dollar locations at every turn and a thriving, skilled, film community, so why not shoot a feature film here? Moves are afoot to re-establish a Film Commission.

Now I'm totally off-point. Sorry about that.

Linda,

That's an interesting subject that you brought up. Not only does a screenwriter have to be aware of the cultural differences, but they also have to be aware of the China Film Regulations, and particularly Article 25, which details what isn't allowed in films that play on Chinese theater screens. Among the banned topics are ghosts and superstitions, some degrees of violence; negative portrayal of the Chinese government, institutions and history; and LGBTQ matters.

Recent banned films from Chinese theaters include Get Out, Deadpool, Ghostbusters, Brokeback Mountain, Call Me By Your Name, Lara Craft Tomb Raider, BlackKklansman, Captain Phillips, Mad Max, Suicide Squad, Christopher Robin, The Departed, and many others - and that's just the bigger-budget films.

Writers should "write what they know," but if you're going to try to sell a screenplay in China, you also need to "know what won't get banned" from Chinese theaters. It has become a thriving production market, though, for non-censored subject matters, and hopefully China's censorship rules will be modified soon.

Best fortunes in your creative endeavors, Linda!

Dan G, I'm with you on this - real old & pointless.

Bill,

Thank you for sharing your insights. You are so helpful.

I am essentially a non-conformist but if I can dream up a storyline that fits in with China's extensive rules and regulations - without strangling itself - I feel that it's worth a shot. Perhaps a comedy about an endearing Chinese chap called Confusus.....

And with China's voracious appetite to buy as much of Australia as the current government will sell them (including the politicians), Australia may end up under Chinese rule anyway.

Now there's a compelling scenario. Don't you just love the freedom that writing gifts us every day? It's limitless.

So, are you saying that Screenwriting Contests by Stage 32 is a waste of money also!

Gilbert:

I don't know if your statement/question was directed at me. However, I'm going to respond to it.

No, I'm not saying Stage 32 or any other contest is a waste of money. I've recently entered a S32 contest and I'm also competing in a number of other well-known contests this year. I compete because I enjoy doing it. The original purpose of this thread was to render my opinion that contests may not statistically be the best way to launch a writing career. This is not to say that contests can't or haven't done so.

A writer should have a full range strategy for getting their scripts into the hands of as many industry people as possible. If Nicholl, Page or Bluecat can help you do that it's an awesome thing. However, relying on contests and festivals alone is not a numerically good strategy for success for most writers.

got it. thanks Phillip.

I think entering contests that give you serious feedback on your script have merit in entering them for that reason alone.I think if you've written a number of scripts you may be better off turning one of them into a novel or some other form.If you get it published and it's received well you might very well find someone's interested in converting it into a script which you already have.

In my experience, it takes two fundamental elements to build a successful career in entertainment. The first, obviously, is excellence in one's craft. Secondly, one needs to provide leadership and support to the showbusiness community. Getting to know people, taking an interest in their needs, and serving their goals is a responsibility everyone needs to share for showbusiness to thrive and for each of us to earn a place in the community. I think the core problem with contests is that they offer no vehicle for that kind of interaction.

@Craig, I have yet to find any contest other than Nicholl and BlueCat that give notes that are worth the money. Why spend $50 on 2 pages of general thoughts from an anonymous "Reader" who, lets face it, is unemployed enough to agree to read shitty scripts for $25 a pop, and whom you cant ask questions of, ask for clarification, and who can't help you get your script sold. If you want professional feedback, spend the extra $200 and submit to a worthy and legit consultant that you can have a back and forth with. Contests are not FOR feedback, they started adding feedback as a way to make tons more money. Contests are for AFTER youve gotten feedback and your script can WIN.

And I'm not a fan of the BlueCat feedback either. You only need two to see that they're formulaic, written to specific length following a template and designed to pump you up before delivering a negative. When you analyze them there's not a lot in the BlueCat feedback to really benefit you.

Yeah, pay for some decent feedback that really looks at your entire script and tells you what you need to improve it.

Danny Manus every person that has read Save the Cat or other type book calls themselves a consultant. I haven’t entered a contest in years. But it is nice to see how many other crap writers I am better than. To be fair I have never used a consultant.

I would (personally) prefer to get notes from an unemployed writer than a never been a writer.

I was told most contests, even the best, mean little. If you are in the top ten maybe. Otherwise, my quarter finalist has had no better luck than my others.

Hey all! I wanted to jump in here. I fully agree that if you are going to enter a screenwriting contest it needs to be one that advances your career. The thing that I love about Stage 32 Contests is that we put the winners (and many times the Finalists) in rooms with people who launch careers.vI hope that everyone is paying attention the phenomenal success that Stage 32 screenwriting contests have had for writers. If not, please check out our success story blogs and page.

Our most recent winner Christina Pamies just signed with manager Jake Wager at Good Fear off the script which won our 5th Annual Search for New Blood contest. Stage 32 set Christina up on her meeting with Jake and he signed her in the room. Had she not entered that contest would she have eventually been signed by representation? Absolutely. She is just that good. But that contest shortened the path to her success. Moreover, every single finalist has had their project requested by managers, producers, and executives as a result of being in a look book that Stage 32 sends out.

Christine Torres - the winner of our 4th Annual Television Writing Contest - is now taking meeting with producers with deals at ABC and Fox, executives at A&E, and managers including Energy Entertainment and Zero Gravity. These meetings are putting her in rooms that seem almost impossible to get into. The Stage 32 contests are giving her the opportunity.

The success our previous winners and finalists are experiencing is so numerous that it would use of all of my bandwidth to type it out here. Suffice to say, not all contests are created equal. Focus on contests - like Stage 32's - that put the winners and finalists in rooms with people who launch careers!

Still waiting for a “dramedy” category to have a shot.

Hey Craig Griffiths, I was actually talking to the OTHER Craig in this thread who actually made a comment about contests and asked a question I was answering. I didnt actually ask for your opinion on anything, especially consultants. But thanks. This is why I havent come on here in 3 months. See ya.

Danny M. The other Craig never asked a question.

Writers are judged on script sales and box office of things they have written.

Contests can be judged on how they have helped writers progress a career or made connections.

Consultants?

Just my opinion. Not a law, fact or rule.

Craig. Some script consultants tend to get upset when you criticize the profession they are in. Not all but some here only respond to posts where they can promote their services. I am not against them doing that sort of thing but I just notice that is probably their main reason for being here.

Pamela Bolinder: I just read my prior posts here, and don't see anything remotely similar to what you stated. You also tried to (inaccurately) insult me a couple weeks ago when you defended the poster who insulted Stage32, and you have done that to many of my other posts before that as well.

If you're one of those "Hollywood Sucks", "Films Suck", "Writing Schools Suck", "Everything Sucks" people, then so be it. All of those blanket statements are always horribly wrong, and I'll always reply to them when I see them and feel like replying.

Actually Bill C - you did threaten to have RB throw me off S32 (sometime back when I didn't post condolences for the passing of some person that I didn't know or even heard of [it would have been phony}), I don't shed any butt sweat over your comments. Now, go ahead and have the last word - I'll not respond. I'm just sorry to see Uncle Phil's thread wander down a rat hole.

Pamela Bolinder: Let's get a couple things straight.

1. When posters make inaccurate statements about the industry (including Stage32)....I reply. With facts. About the industry. About all of the great films that are out at any given time. About the importance of writing schools. About all of the great testimonials and success stories that exist for the contests, script consultants, and pitch sessions that those posters erroneously castigate.

2. For you or anyone to call me a "bully"...the guy who factually corrects their wrong blanket statements with evidence and proof...that .is just as wrong as their blanket statements that they spew. I state facts. If anyone is the "bully" - it's the people who are misrepresenting the truth and replacing the truth with their wrong and "sour grapes" opinions.

And for you.who call yourselves "creatives"....how you can even make those blanket statement assertions about consultants/contests/pitching/the biz/Hollywood/writing schools/etc is beyond being correct. It's beyond being rational.

So get a clue, Pamela Bolinder. And if you honestly think that I can somehow "influence" RB to "throw a member off of Stage32"....you are, once again, really clueless.

You're not going to turn this into a "me against you" post. You're wrong, and you really need to rethink the way you approach the truth and erroneous blanket statements; your perception of bullies; and your perception of who I can "influence." Yeesh..

Doug Nelson: what you just claimed is an outright lie. Yeesh again.

If made, such threats are empty because there are policies in place that staff and moderators follow. So let's be realistic, folks. Please. This is an open platform. There are criteria in place. And, frankly, I have not seen any such threat, Doug and Pamela—yes, please do stay in your lane. If you wish to report behavior for review you can do so either by using "Contact Us" found in the bottom menu bar or reach out to a moderator.

Yes, you are.

Pamela Bolinder: It's no secret that I contacted people and asked them to reply to the Audrey Wells tribute topic. Many did, and some didn't. Not a single person who did not reply can say that I threatened them if they did not reply. That is beyond ludicrous. Doug Nelson lied, and if you believe that, then so be it. Doug Nelson should apologize, and be more truthful in the future about that.

It is also very telling that he would be the only one to make that ridiculous assertion - I made that request to him and others last year, by the way - and that you would be the only one to believe it, and then use it to try and insult me. I guess the two of you don't like when I reply to his erroneous comments (or anybody else's erroneous comments) about cinema, the industry, and its service providers. I think that's pretty clear at this point.

Save your melodramatic vengeance's for your scripts. You'd both serve yourselves better that way - and Stage32 as well. Yeesh.

Okay. Let’s move on. Perhaps take up your personal grievances privately via personal message or, again, report complaints. Let’s please allow the screenwriting forum to get back to screenwriting related topics. Thanks.

My apologies, Phillip, for hijacking your thread.