Financing / Crowdfunding

Maxing out credit cards or draining personal savings is irresponsible, especially if you have a family / mouths to feed. On the flip side, it's not ethical to expect someone to fund your dream project which has less than 1% chance of making enough money to pay anyone back. Your dream, you pay for it. Once you get to a certain stage, then do some outreach.

I don't think I ever used my American Express Gold Card to finance any of my movies; but I often spent $10,000 and paid it at the end of every month without O% interest. But I travelled with my American Express God Card and it was nice to have $10,000 cash in my pocket everywhere I went -- Vic Alexander, independent filmmaker.

I think that's exactly right, Stephen Folker. I'm not suggesting that every filmmaker should go the financier route. If you can afford to pay out of pocket for your project, you should, especially when you're learning. I just hate seeing people go into serious debt that they can't crawl out of. I think the key is educating yourself. Part of understanding professional financing options is learning how to properly revise your project to meet a reasonable budget, whether that's for yourself or for someone else. Oftentimes, I think newer filmmakers get in over their heads trying to make something that is too expensive right off the bat and if they approached a different project with more reasonable and affordable auspices, they'll be able to learn and grow without overextending themselves. Then later down the road, they'll be more prepared for that bigger more expensive passion project at a time when they can approach financing options differently.

Meh. This business is about failing. And getting up from failing. Do what you got to do to finish. So many experts say this and that and they're preaching to general audience but never to peers. My first Hollywood assistant job to a famous producer and this dude used his house equity to fund a movie. The movie flopped, the bank took the house and his wife divorced him. He went back at it again. Made another movie; this time the movie made $, he bought another house and married someone else. His third produced movie became a franchise and he was filthy rich.

Dan MaxXx - to quote Thomas Edison (speaking of films, not personal life) - "I have not failed, I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." We have to keep trying, learning, making and repeat.

It's definitely a good one to go to. Attend this free Stage 32 event and I'm sure you'll find out all you want to know: https://www.stage32.com/education?h=how-to-navigate-the-cannes-film-fest...

Definitely a good move. I've done the Producers program twice and have not been disappointed. Good meetings with film commissions, distributors. Cannes in general is a great networking experience.

it’s the best film festival with a market in the world so get on Cinando and put your info on it and email people for appointments in advance.

Studiobinder has an ultimate guide to Film Grants. There's so many on there, you really have to pick through them but there might be something in there worth checking in on!

https://www.studiobinder.com/blog/film-grants/

hey. while I primarily support women in film and especially older ones as I’m older I’m initiating a new short film fund in which all candidates will be given a number so that age, gender, ethnicity is anon. I am also sick of this “emerging” film makers only, and having to tick boxes to include diversity. this will be judged on the best story regardless of who wrote it.

if you want to be informed when it opens and other courses, castings, opportunities I have please sign up to my newsletter - http://subscribepage.io/luminosignup

you can also check me out on instagram- www.instagram.com/luminofilmsofficial

Matthew Faye Terry FWIW, speaking as someone who was/is an Affirmative Action jackpot (Disabled female over 50 with Native American ancestry) who worked in male dominated jobs like truck driving, no matter how hard I worked or how well I did my job, many of my male coworkers loved to remind me that I would never be good enough in their eyes and the only reason I was there in their opinion was because of Affirmative Action. It can be very frustrating to always be devalued by a policy that was meant to level the playing field....especially when it also triggers additional resentment in your coworkers. It becomes a vicious circle and no one really wins.

It might feel like the beneficiaries of these policies are being given an unfair advantage, but in reality, we walk around with a big question mark over our heads because some people will never believe that our accomplishments are because we worked hard and earned them, and not because of some policy that appears to give us a boost when all it really does is open a door that would otherwise be closed to us. Once we're in the door, we have to work harder and be better just to prove we deserve to be there.

I'll never forget the first time I went to haul sugar beets, I'd already been hauling potatoes for ten years (which is WAY harder than sugar beets), I showed up the first day ready to work. A man in his early twenties was also hired that day. They pointed at a truck and sent him on his way. But me...no, the boss insisted on riding with me all day on my first day "to make sure I could handle that big truck," and then grudgingly admitted at the end of the day that I was a good driver. Three days later, that new guy rolled his truck into the ditch pulling into the piler. The guys ribbed him about it for a day and then he was given another truck to drive. There's no doubt in my mind that if I had done that, I would have been fired on the spot.

When I first started hauling potatoes I didn't know anything about truck driving and my male coworkers had no intention of helping me learn. I was the only woman working with EIGHTY men and some of them were determined to run me out.They sabotaged my truck. They would back their truck into mine and then tell the boss that I rear-ended them. They would cut me off in the field to stop me from getting my quota of loads, etc... I toughed it out and at the end of that first harvest, ONE guy came over to shake my hand and tell me that no one thought I would make it to the end and he was impressed with how fast I learned the ropes. I probably wouldn't have made it if my boss hadn't been one of those rare guys who recognized that women are often better drivers than the men because we don't beat up on the equipment and tend to be more careful, so no matter how much the other drivers tried to mess with me, he'd give me the benefit of the doubt.

And then there's the time I went through bus driver training with four men and then we all went to take the behind the wheel test on the same day. I was the only one who passed. All the way back to the shop the men informed me it was "because I was a woman so they didn't dare flunk me." I guess it couldn't possibly be that I was just a better driver than they were.

When I was hired to run a snowplow for MNDOT the supervisor put me in a plow truck and sent me out to clean up turn lanes and shoulders. Six months later, I learned that he had also sent two men in a pick-up to follow me around all day and let him know if I could drive or not. I'd been driving big trucks for twelve years already by then. I worked there seven years and NEVER saw the supervisor send anyone out to follow a new MAN around to check out his driving skills.

These are just a few examples of what people like me have to contend with. I can understand the frustration that men might feel (and believe me, I heard a lot about it over the years, lol). But these programs and policies exist because they are needed. Not to exclude anyone, but to provide opportunities to those who have been excluded, historically. But I do think Jane has a good idea, because ultimately, age/gender/race/disability shouldn't be the deciding factor. Especially in creative endeavors such as screenwriting. What does it say about our society though, that everyone needs an anonymous number in order to actually achieve neutrality?

BTW, I've had my CDL over twenty years. It's still squeaky clean: no tickets, no accidents.

Sallie Olson appreciate your sentiments very much!

Talent should always come first.

Thank you so much for compiling and sharing this information with us, Jack Binder! This is so helpful to know.

That's great news for UK indie filmmakers, writers, cast, and crew, Jack Binder. Thanks for sharing the news and blog. What does core expenditure costs mean?

Thanks Maurice Vaughan - core expenditure is also referred to often as "allowable costs"; those costs permitted for calculation toward film tax credits or production incentives according to the jurisdiction's guidelines.

You're welcome, Jack Binder. Thanks for explaining. I'm learning more and more about financing on here.

hey Ashley Renee Smith! Well, everything is in principle up for negotiation. There are no rules written in stone - but there are rules of thumb. Guild residuals always come in 1st position, just after the CAM (exception can be bank financing). Then it is the turn of the sales agent, payment of commission and recoupment of expenses, after which financiers recoup. After recoupment of financing, there can be deferments, box office bonuses, and once financing is fully recouped and all other (deferred) commitments have been satisfied, the film is officially profitable and the profit participants share the backend. Positions however may differ depending on negotiations, and leverage. At the end, the recoupment schedule is just a reflection of all the single deal terms combined. Where an entitlement ends up in the waterfall, depends foremost on what the underlying agreement says.

Maurice Vaughan yes, I have seen pitch decks showing the recoupment schedule. I think that makes sense, it is important that stakeholders get an understanding also of the economics and how recoupment of financing works in the context of a project with multiple beneficiaries, obligations and commitments.

A pleasure Pamela Jaye Smith as always!

Ok, thanks for the answer and all the answers, David Zannoni. Thanks again for having this AMA.

I was in score delivery mode yesterday and couldn't jump in, but it is a great read to catch up with today and learn from you expertise. Thank you so much, David Zannoni !

it was an absolutely bold and innovative strategy. loved to see them take a huge risk and try something out of the box! think they actually got off easy with the losses because the movie wasn't really all that spectacular and didn't carry via word of mouth. But i think the conceit got more people going to theaters, established a ton of brand exposure for Angel Studios and the studio is in a better place than they were before. if they can capitalize on the buzz they generated with putting out actual good content remains to be seen.

Hi Pat Alexander thanks for your comment.

I thought the marketing was great in the US, but here in the UK, I struggled to find when and where it was released. Next week, however, I’ll be watching it on a streamer. I’m excited to see what it’s like, even on a small screen.

I’ve read a lot about Sound of Freedom and seem to recall that an account via a non-profit had to be set up for the pay-it-forward element and that it couldn’t go into an Angel Studios account. Am I right or am I confused?

Indeed, Mark Deuce and it’s not an easy process either, but there again, nothing in the film industry is!

@Geoff Hall, yeah i think I read something similar. They had it sorted separately because it wasn't counted in the box office receipts. But it's wild the movie made 250 mill, then Pay It Forward brought in another 10% of tickets sales (26 million) which is just mad money.

Jack, is it because Producers are asking for product placement money up front before production as funding for the movie? My husband's idea was to basically make product placement like advertising, where the company doesn't pay until after the movie comes out to prove their product was there. His idea was to take those product placement contracts to potential investors, to prove to them that they will make their money back and then some as soon as the movie hits the screens... Has no one done that before?

Hi Joyce, product placement is a tricky one and can be overstated in conversation in my opinion. What is more likely is propping (where a company or brand may offer you an item or wardrobe or venue). It's still a tough one and you'll want to show the brand what exposure you can offer or how you will deliver a 'brand moment' for them. Most major brands have outsourced their product placement to agencies, so I advise finding out who runs that for your target brand if its a major one. Or, work with smaller business you can build a relationship with and find a mutual benefit between you. Highly recommend making a deck to show the brand moments and how/where a brand can expect to be featured in your content.

Not a lot of brands are paying, try to think more creatively about finding the mutual benefit. Unless you have a Bond movie with Emma Stone coming out that Valentino will want to know about... ;)

Hi Joyce, as mentioned here, they just don't actually pay money in general, in my experience. Certainly after the fact. Perhaps in unique cases where the market value is presented as a good investment. Mostly it's a fallacy concept unless you're Godzilla and Pepsi.

I've done product placement a few times on small projects. But I was limited to either free stuff, or 'sure you can use our brand in your film'. No money.

in 2019, i got a brewery to sponsor a short film i produced. it was about 30K - not much but huge for our budget. through personal connections and a months long campaign. what helped was having solid talent attached, not A-listers but name actors people recognized from bigger projects, which made our project "buzzy". it also helped our director's first short had done well at festivals and we had nice odds at a good festival run around the country again. then also via our director, we hooked up an airline programming deal which we could use as a sweetener. then we got a SVOD deal with Fandor, which really sealed the deal, so we could guarantee a decent share of eyes on the project all over. then in the film, we included brewery stuff in a lot of shots - we had multiple fridge shots with the beer, dinner table scenes with logo-engraved glasses on the table, one of their aluminum beer posters in the garage scenes, and other nice little bits and pieces. money came after we finished production though which made things real tight. however we did it and we made it and everybody was pleased in the end. there weren't really hard steps i can tell you to take. it was nonstop moving parts and not an A-to-B process whatsoever so you've gotta get your hands dirty but it worked. having a director you can sell a bit is very useful. going to personal connections who own businesses that want brand awareness also helps. you're not gonna get big brands except through an agency, but there are lots of brands out there.

Has anyone here applied for, or considered applying for, a tax credit on their film? The question of “is it fair” implies that indies are getting overlooked.

I’m in New York, which has an attractive credit program. The state doesn’t choose what projects to sponsor, then hand you a check. Instead, you follow the rules of qualified spending, submit in the appropriate time frame, then get money back after your initial budget is spent.

So if Disney is spending 166 million to get 21 million back, this is not disadvantaging an indie production. They simply don’t spend as much, so get less back.

The goal for the state government is to get more spending in-state. Hotels, rentals, local crew, etc. New York even has a dedicated post production credit. Of course the state would want more big budget films to apply, that’s where the bulk of the in-state spending will come from.

I’ve been frustrated in the past that some of the NY rules seem skewed for big budget productions (a requirement is shooting for a minimum time on a qualified sound stage, for instance) but then I realized those minimums are to encourage more spending.

They’re not trying to further an art form altruistically, they’re trying to stimulate an economy.

It's such a universal theme, sadly. I've just been having the same conversations in the UK (within the framework of a pilot programme aimed at levelling the field) and with the commissioner in France. Seems like it's always the same dilemma, how do we distribute funds/resources and nurture new skills learners at the indie end of the industry within the picture rather than just service the giants!

CA and NY are not very film-friendly states to shoot in, IMO. They charge you for everything, permits and location fees will cost 2x what you would spend in NM, PA, MD, GA, etc. A film-friendly state tries to help filmmakers. I have not seen that love in CA.

I will clarify that I live in upstate New York, not NYC. Shooting in the city is expensive of course, but the tax incentive is often used by productions shooting in certain areas of Rochester or Buffalo looking to emulate NYC.

it'll never not be weird for Disney to get tax credits. they've logged 2 billion in tax credits around the country over the last 30 years and 500 million from California alone. they just don't need the money. sure they can employ the highest level film workers and that factor in the equation is positive. but for a company that makes 30 billion annually, don't think they need the help...

Matthew Faye Terry hi Matthew, have you tried searching for such people here on Stage32?

Looking forward to Sara's class!

Looking forward to it!

Super!!

What a great first class! It was so nice to meet some of you and hearing about your projects. I'm looking forward to the next class. Do we have an assignment to fill out?

Excellent! Apologies for the late introduction; I’m looking forward to the next class and hope I can catch up. Sarah Elizabeth is such a wonderful teacher, I’ll do my best.