Post-Production : Ask Me Anything (AMA) 12/28 to 12/29- Using, Clearing, and Licensing Music For Your Film by Alan Brewer

Hi, Alan Brewer. Hope you're having a great week. Thanks for taking the time to have this AMA. My question is your question: where and how do you get the clearance to use the music you like for your production?

Hi Maurice Vaughan . The short answer is that you must secure permission from the owners of BOTH the sound recording (usually a record label) and the underlying song or composition (the publisher(s) of the song). So the first step is to identify those companies and then contact each of them with the details of your project and the specifics of how you plan to use the music in your film. You ask them for a "quote" with respect to the fees they would like you to pay for licensing the music. Hopefully you can come to an agreement that your budget will allow.

Great answer, Alan Brewer! Thanks! Are there times when the owner of the sound recording and the owner of the underlying song or composition of the song are the same?

Thanks. Yes, Maurice Vaughan , sometimes an independent music artist owns their own publishing so clearance & licensing can all be done by that one party.

You're welcome, Alan Brewer. Thanks for the answer. What will a producer or filmmaker need to show a potential distributor when they deliver the film? Another one of your questions. :)

Thanks for engaging, Maurice Vaughan . Upon delivery, you will need to provide copies of all fully executed music licenses and a completed music cue sheet for the film. If there is music listed on your cue sheet that is not backed up by signed licenses or an executed composer agreement, you will not have satisfied your delivery requirements.

Alan Brewer thanks so much for doing this! Such a critical topic. I would love your thoughts on a dilemma around this. I purchased publishing and sync rights for a piece by Samuel Barber for us to make our recording for a planetarium educational film. That all went fine and film started a limited but global theatrical run through our distributor. Then the pandemic hit. The rights were sold to another company that then when out of business and very unclear where the rights are. The film's distributor went under but not before reselling the film to a German company. In additional, the pandemic did irreparable damage to the market and distribution. However, very limited interest in purely educational showings of the film still exist. I'm currently legally fighting (and should win in January) the rights to the film back, but the music rights issue is an open wound and given the limited market, the pre-pandemic rights pricing is far too expensive now. One option of course is replacing the music but it's the key music for the film, so it would completely change it as it's 1/4 of the score. Are the strategies for approaching the estates of composers directly to work out something or are we at a dead end?

You're welcome, Alan Brewer. Thanks for all the answers. I know your webinar is going to be incredibly helpful for filmmakers and producers!

Hi Alan Brewer, appreciate you setting aside your time for this.

My first question is what was like to work with David Bowie?

My second question (sort of linked to music), I'm sure I read somewhere ages ago that there is a limitation when it comes to using a musical act's lyrics in film (or in books), so not even singing the lyrics, maybe uttering them as normal speech or having them as a visual reference, can you expound on this, please? (on the assumption I have not made it up).

Third question, have you seen any swing in your industry with regards to composing music and AI's influence/insertion?

Fourth question, are there websites which host sample music which is permissible to use in works because it is unlicensed (and when I write this, I don't mean ripping off someone's music because they don't know it is on the site).

That's quite a lot of questions, think I will have a lie down now.

Thanks

Thanks, Stephen Van Vuuren. I'm not totally clear on the status of your licensing for the Samuel Barber piece. You wrote that you "purchased publishing and sync rights" when you were making the film. Did you not pay the agreed fee(s) and obtain signed synch licenses back then?

Alan Brewer we did purchase them but they expired during the pandemic as it was a two year term plus a two year renewal.

Stephen Van Vuuren , I see. My first question is, "Why did you license for only 2 years?" Were you anticipating that the film would totally disappear after that amount of time? My second question is, "With whom did you negotiate and sign the first license?" You mentioned going directly to the composer's estate. Is that where you obtained the license previously?

I'm sorry to answer your question with questions but it's information I'd like to have in order to give you the best answer.

Alan Brewer that was all we could afford. the distributor promised much higher returns. we negotiated and purchased from the rights holder at the time but now it’s unclear who holds the rights. I’ve asked a few companies but received no reply. we have never contacted the composers estate, that’s what I’m asking advice on if that’s a good idea and is so any advice on that.

Thank you, Mark Giacomin, for your group of questions. I will answer "in the order received." :)

1. Most unfortunately, I did not work directly with David Bowie. I worked with Don Pennebaker, the Director of the Ziggy Stardust film. It had been shot several years prior to our putting it together for theatrical release, and there was no reason to interact directly with Bowie.

2. I'm not sure I know precisely what you mean when you write, "a limitation when it comes to using a musical act's lyrics in film (or in books)." Do you mean a limitation regarding how you can use the lyrics? Or are you asking if there are limitations with respect to the requirement to obtain licenses authorizing the use of the lyrics?

3. Yes, there apparently are production companies attempting to use AI to create music for their use. But I have not seen a widespread trend.

4. There are websites where are you can find existing recorded music that is being offered for free or "gratis." You can easily find them by searching on the Internet. This music is being offered so it will appear on your music cue sheets, which would trigger residual payments by the performing rights organizations (BMI, ASCAP, SESAC) to the owners of the music.

I hope you had a good rest. :)

Stephen Van Vuuren , to my knowledge, all of Samuel Barber's music is owned/controlled by the same publishing company. So I'm still not understanding why you wrote that it's unclear who holds the rights. Can you tell me the name of the company that issued the first license?

In any case, since there is a publisher who controls the copyright, I don't know that it would be helpful to attempt to contact the composer's estate.

Thanks Alan Brewer, I did have a brain rest. :) I often forget a lot of work in films, particularly with sound, is done after the event.

Yes, my question was a bit obtuse, I guess it comes down to if someone can sing a song (sans music) in a film, presumably that still qualifies as requiring permission.

I remember reading an article about Enya and she is fiercely protective (quite right too) about other artists using her music.

Alan Brewer hello! This is a little off topic, but I'm a composer and looking for more work. Where do I meet music supervisors? At film networking events etc. I've attended, I don't think I've met any music supervisors. Is this (through music supervisors) one of the best way to get your music into films? Thank you!

Yes, Mark Giacomin, it doesn’t matter if you sing it a cappella, recite the lyrics, or rap the song… It is still fully protected under copyright law and requires a synch license.

Hi, Kanako Neale. Yes, music supervisors might be able to help you find work. Check out the website for the Guild of Music Supervisors. You may be able to connect with some folks there and/or attend one of their events to meet people. But meeting directors, producers, and, of course, composer agents, will all be helpful. Film festivals are very good places to meet directors and producers.

And you may want to look at joining the SCL - Society of Composers & Lyricists.

There are many music supervisors who are members here on Stage32. You may want to reach out to some of them.

Hi Alan Brewer - thanks so much for spending your time with us. Forgive me for asking such a basic question but could you please explain how obtaining the rights to use a song in film relate to the royalties that same song would get through other avenues? In simpler terms, are obtaining the rights a "one-and-done" deal or are there subsequent royalties paid to the publisher for each use of the film much like in radio, etc.? And how does it also relate to trailers?

Alan Brewer thank you so much! I'll check those places out and join.

Hello, Leonardo Ramirez. Yes, there are "residual" payments when the film is exhibited on television, whether broadcast, cable, streaming, etc. There are also payments when the film is exhibited theatrically in most foreign territories. Those payments are made to music publishers and writers by the performing rights societies, ASCAP, BMI, or SESAC (or foreign societies). Trailers don't yield additional public performance payments but there is often an extra, one time fee paid for trailer use.

Thanks so much Alan Brewer. And again, thanks for spending your time with us. You're kind to share your experience with Stage 32.

You're welcome, Leonardo Ramirez. I would encourage everyone to join me for my Stage32 Webinar on January 5 at 1:00pm (PST) called THE FILMMAKERS GUIDE TO MUSIC IN MOVIES. I will cover all things relating to film music with a live Q&A to follow my presentation.

Sounds great, Alan Brewer!

Alan Brewer thank you so much for sharing your time with us today! What are the best places to look for information regarding who owns the publishing rights? Obviously, people can Google, but to be more specific, is the information usually found on artist's websites? Is there an online database where the information is collected? Should people be looking up the information in fine print on music streaming sites? You used to be able to see details like that on CD and vinyl covers, but now that most people listen to music online, I didn't know if there's an easier and more universal option for researching the information that filmmakers and producers would need to move forward.

Thanks, Ashley Renee Smith. Yes, if you hold a physical cd or album, you can usually find the publishers listed in the credits. The best way to begin looking for that information online is to go to bmi.com or ascap.com and look up the song title in their public database. As there are often multiple songs with the same title, try to determine which one it is by looking for the artist who performed it on the recording you would like to use. If you plan to re-record the song, you can still identify the correct composition by searching for the version by an artist you know has recorded it.

Sometimes you can identify the publisher(s) of a song by searching for the song lyrics online. Often, the lyrics that are displayed also identify the writers and publishers.

BTW- This is often handled by a music supervisor or a clearance and licensing specialist. They/we take care of searching for all the correct information, connecting, and negotiating with the various parties associated with the song(s).

So great to see such useful information all together: fantastic AMA. Thank you so much for your time and your generosity in sharing your knowledge with amazingly detailed answers, Alan Brewer !

You're welcome, Elena Maro . My pleasure!

FYI everyone- I am available to do music supervision and/or clearance and licensing for your project. Let me know if you'd like a consultation.

Alan Brewer can I add you and message you with my music?

Hello Alan,

Welcome to Stage 32.

Have a good day.

Thanks, Alan, for all this detailed information. Good things to know ahead of time.