Filmmaking / Directing : Choosing a camera for a dramatic short by Ray Shab

I would avoid DSLR/MIrrorless still cameras. They are NOT configured for anything other than quick b-roll, and still in 2020 not a one of them has a sensor that doesn't produce unacceptable rolling shutter artifacts on action. And you need to put too many add-ons on them to make them properly usable in the environment. Apart from that, my advice is to find a good DP and let him or her pick the system they want to use, it's their job after all.

Depends on what your film is about. We used a 2 BM Ursa Mini 4.6 for our first film. We wanted to acheive a mockumentary-style handy shot but with a cinematic look. It was a great choice, rig was very maneuverable and photography came out as expected.

Check it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-dbT6rSlHY

It depends mostly on your budget. If you bring in a DP with a kit - that's what he'll use. I'm finally coming 'round to the BM cameras. I know Shadow doesn't like 'em but I'm fond of the full frame mirrorless DSLR with a good Cine lens. The rolling shutter becomes more evident in the fast action shots - not so in a Drama. It also depends on your intended market. If it's for the typical run-o-the-mill festivals; a simple HD DSLR can get you there.

Good point about DSLR shadow.

Alan, I liked the 70's look you created. What kind of glass did you use?

Thanx! A Samyang Kit on the first camera, a Canon 70-200 on the second one.

Doug Nelson Yeah, I am biased, I admit, against the still cameras and really there have been some good movies made with them. Act of Valor, I understand, was done on the 5Dmkii (I wouldn't call it a great movie, but the picture was fine and it actually had action sequences), and on 24 we used the 5D and 5Dmkii and mkiii on certain shots, So they can certainly be used to good effect, but usually in the hands of a well qualified DP.

Alan M. Cossettini I really like the Blackmagic systems. I used the BM cinema pocket cameras on some shots in Episode One of Sin 13, including some great slomo (though the main unit used Red Dragon). As well, I used the first iteration of the Ursa a couple years ago on a shoot for Culture Machine for release in India. I Ursa was pretty good then, it's pretty great now. We are using the latest BM Ursa 12K next week on a second unit shoot day, though likely shooting 8k, not 12 (editorial work-flow in ultra-HD being what it is). I just saw some tests yesterday with the camera and I am very impressed even though it is an aps-c sensor (go figure, on 12K and the new B-raw format) so we had some confusion over lens size.

Speak to your DP about the look you want and how to do it. Also, I would hire a post-production Colorist, do a camera test with lighting, lenses, post color-grading.

I've played with the ZCam & Red Komodo 6K. Like the square body shapes. But if you're talking Summer 2021 to shoot, there will be more technical advances for under $10,000 cameras. Or just rent an Alexa mini with a lens package and not worry

Hey shadow, the BM 12 k looks pretty nice. It says it's super 35! Please post something even a still if you can.

Dan is the Alexa mini that much better?

Ray Shab basically, Arriflex dominates the camera Industry. The entire Arri platform is battle-tested, from lenses to camera grip to data files to whatever editing system.

Last year's Sundance features. Arri Mini was the most used.

https://ymcinema.com/2020/01/29/the-cameras-behind-sundance-2020-alexa-m...

Learn to shoot with what you got first before you get into this 'my camera is better than yours' squabble. I've seen some really good stuff flow from a 5D and I've seen some real crap spit out by an Arri. It depends more on the operator.

Ray Shab That is what it says, and that is my understanding, and makes more sense. The AC at the shoot was adamant it was an aps-c sensor, so I didn't argue though I was sure it wasn't the case. Turns out he was conflating the lens as made for an aps-c camera with the sensor. However... oddly, an aps-c lens should have had the outside of the barrel visible in the viewfinder and sensor - at least it does on a DSLR full frame. And it didn't. Very strange...

Rohit I saw Honeyland a few months ago and really liked it. Doug I agree that the camera squabble is just that. Especially with all of them being SO good nowadays. I will let the DP make that decision based on the budget (which is low).

Ray, Yes you pick the camera that makes shooting your picture the best. Choosing what is best and working with that gear to achieve the best is specialized knowledge. Gained over years of experience. Without that almost any of the cameras currently available will do a very good job. Expectations for a director in the early planning stages of a project should be of the finished images in their picture not the process of getting there. As it has been a while since you made a film and you put this discussion in this lounge, I assume you will be directing among other things, but I don’t know if you intend to shoot your short as well. If you are hiring a DP, share your thoughts and ideas of the look and budget and allow them to have the major input on the gear they will utilize to put your vision on the screen. Hiring a DP for their gear means that the response to the best camera will always be the same, the camera they own is best. Obviously not true nor what you might wish to hear but what you will be told.

Perhaps in all the responses you’ve received, Doug answered your question most appropriately “Learn to shoot with what you got”. (insert applause track here).

I wholeheartedly agree that stills cameras shoot great stills. They are not made for motion in so many ways, both in the image and in the ergonomics. But if that’s what you have, prepare to light, and design shots and art direct your way around the problems.

The BlackMagic Ursa Mini 12K has a sensor that is neither Super 35 nor APS-C but nicely between them and they are not hugely different. Essentially there are no standards. Which is problematic. With information and knowledge it is just something we adapt to. Not all lenses made in specific mounts or that can be used on specific sensor sizes, are equal in their optical properties. So yes, sometimes a lens will not vignette on a given camera when you thought it might. That is one of those things we find in either testing or our knowledge and skill set. Whether a lens is appropriate for a given sensor size is determined first and foremost by the diagonal measurement of the sensor and the diameter of the image circle that comes out of the lens to the sensor. The image circle of the lens has to be greater than the diagonal of the sensor or there will be vignetting in the corners of the images. Some lenses have greater image circles that the mounts they come with and the sensor sizes they are “made for” indicate. Others don’t. Gotta test. Remember that in the case of the BlackMagic, not all of the formats available use the full sensor available area. The 12K 17:9 has an image circle of 30.56mm while the 12K 16:9 needs an image circle of 29.07mm. That millimeter and a half difference is a lot and some lenses will not work in the larger format. Anything you can do to get away from using the very edges of the image circle is a good thing. This assumes the sensor is centered behind the lens, which has not always the case.

Andrew, Wow, thanks for taking the time. Lots of valuable info. I have used an Arri sr2 16mm back in the day, and shot few shorts with a 3ccd min dv. I was the DP (mainly student type stuff). Also a fair amount of time spent on medium and large format photography and printing. So your comments are understood and appreciated.

Ray, having shot with an SR2 says you will approach this with enough thought. I hope then that you will also shoot your piece, it might be therapeutic, or wildly frustrating :-)

Hmmm... shooting on an SR2. Ahhh... 7247? how about 7252 or 7241 or 7242? If any of the latter 3 then the accuracy of lighting and exposure needed to achieve decent results will put you in very good stead to jump into this new project