Filmmaking / Directing : Ripomatic by Jacob Siciliano

"A rip-o-matic is a mash-up of clips from produced sources a filmmaker uses to help sell a story by getting the viewer to understand to basic mood, tone, structure or energy of the project." - http://www.emergingscreenwritersurvivalguide.com/whats-rip-o-matic-need-one/

Let's share some good rip-o-matics!

This one for The Hunger Games is AMAZING! You can recognize a few of the popular references, but not enough to pull you out of the trailer: https://www.slashfilm.com/kevin-tancharoens-the-hunger-games-pitch-trail...

Or this one for Looper - https://nofilmschool.com/2012/10/rian-johnsons-sizzle-reel-for-looper

Looks good, Elena Lockleis! I really like the sequence starting from her waking up on the table under the sheet through to "three chimes, we have to go through the door". It makes you want to know more for sure!

Thank you both for your replies, this was really helpful. That’s amazing what you both posted.

Jacob Siciliano Are you talking about the program which rips DVDs? Or the pitch creating company? I assume the latter, and in my opinion, "rip-o-matic" is just a retail service preying on hopeful indie filmmakers to create pitches and reels. I wouldn't use them for any purpose. Also... what did they mean by "doesn't meet industry standards" ??? Because that's industry code for "go away" or "pay my friend for some services before I look at your work" often used by lower level agents and reps. In my experience, the lower the level of the person, the more concerned about format they are, the higher the level, the more they don't care and just want to see the substance.

Karen "Kay" Ross How do people obtain the permissions to use existing material?

Well I don't know if this relates. But a while back I wrote a screenplay for a film that we're trying to get funding for and we decided that it would be good to create a presentation video, trailer something. But that's kind of hard to do without it being shot yet.

So my girlfriend Leya Kokoravec actually shot some B roll around the house of some stuff that fitted the story and the edited in some free stock footage in there. I also shot a voice over and we got something that I now think is called a sizzle reel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTGrKOLjjLY

I guess there's more than one way to approach how to create a sizzle reel but for us it was easier to shoot some stuff and then edit it together and I never thought that we could edit together a bunch of footage from other stuff to show the mood.

Very interesting.

Christiane Lange They don't, usually, and if they don't it would be a violation of copyright. It doesn't come anywhere near the "fair use" exclusion. But it is also under the radar and seldom published, so they can usually get away with it.

Vital Butinar Yes, there is certainly more than one way, and that sizzle is a good one. Back to the first idea of "industry standards" - maybe it's obvious I don't care about them. What I do care about is if the content is compelling, and your trailer as it is is a good start.

Jacob, of what 'industry standards' do you speak? I watch quite a number of 'em, but I'm unaware of any such 'standards'. Keeping them short & sweet is appreciated. I like Actor's monologues that demonstrate a skill range and an Editor's or DP's reel has purpose to me at times. A run time of a bit under 2 minutes is usually sufficient (but not a 'standard'). I'm ignorant of this Rip'emoff service you speak of. I can rip some DVDs and paste a few parts together; but why? Why would I use other folks works to promote myself - makes no sense to me.

Thank you Shadow Dragu-Mihai, Esq., Ipg. Well we did try and make the most of it but this was meant to be just the first one. When we're able to get some more footage but I guess it does the job.

Vital Butinar What I liked about the approach is that it creates intrigue and interest - one wants to know more. I think that's something that most trailers these days miss entirely. So limited resources can be the inspiration for creativity

Well thank you Shadow Dragu-Mihai, Esq., Ipg and I agree sometimes limited resources can give you an opportunity to do something differently. You know now that I think about it it's really funny how when you look at the world around you a lot of things are becoming standardized. I guess society goes trough phases when things are edgy and new and then when everything begins to work in a similar way. Very interesting and somehow also connected to the subject of our film.

Shadow Dragu-Mihai, Esq., Ipg - I'm assuming that the cinematography is what they were referring to - if the shots aren't to a certain standard, then no amount of cutting it and putting it over epic music is going to make it look better.

Christiane Lange - You aren't selling the trailer, you are selling the script, so as supplementary material, you don't need rights to it. Also, cutting it together with other material helps to show that you aren't playing someone else's movie and claiming it is an example of your script (unless you're outing yourself as plagiarizing a completed film). Did that answer your question?

Doug Nelson The biggest reason for it is financing for pre-vis - sometimes investors can't see what you're trying to get at with a script or storyboards or fully animated animatics. The Rip-o-matic was born from music mash-ups and evolved into an audio-visual tool. It is still used as an editor's tool of taking existing IP and using shots, quotes, or music to recreate the look/feel of something else. Check out the Looper example above! I really enjoy it because it uses just enough of the clips to get the feeling across with only a momentary thought of where the shot is originally from. It also doesn't fully rely on previous footage, which shows the effort of the filmmakers to fill in the gaps of pre-vis on their own.

Karen "Kay" Ross I have a background in publishing and have had to deal with copyright in various contexts over the years. Legally speaking, you would absolutely need permission, especially because you are using it as a sales tool, i.e. for gain. I get that it falls in a grey area, in the sense that the copyright holder is not ever likely to come across your sizzle and if they do, they may not consider it worthwhile to go after you. But that doesn't make it legal.

Christiane Lange - I've been told by an entertainment attorney that's it's not infringement.

John Ellis I take your word for it, obviously, but I am curious as to how, if you know.

Karen "Kay" Ross Well, it's still illegal, that's an easy one. But really, the concern that an investor should be able to picture a camera angle is an odd one to me. They are investors, not cinematographers, so by definition they can't assess a camera angle. Camera angles and visual from other films really aren't selling points on a film that is only on the drawing boards. I guess I just see the whole idea as kind of creative bubble gum.

I’d like to clarify something. I used the wrong terminology when I said industry standard, that was me trying to describe the advice I got. This guy I got advice from was just saying how my sizzle reel should look and include when presenting to producers from his experience.

John Ellis I disagree, and I am an entertainment attorney. It is infringement. It is likely "under the radar" but that is not the same as not being infringement.

Hey, all - just telling you what I was told. :)

John Ellis Yes, I get that. But I am pretty sure Shadow and I remain correct about this. Most advice I have seen about the issue states the same, but also typically says that it is common practice anyway. For example:

"Rip-o-matic”: Exclusively cut from existing footage from other sources (often digitized from a DVR). Note that doing this without permission from the copyright-holders is technically illegal and exposes you to civil liability. Nevertheless, this kind of sizzle is produced quite often. https://www.producersguild.org/page/sizzle2

One alternative, as noted by others, is to use stock footage, free or paid.

I've tried to recall the exact conversation I had with the attorney. The gist of what I remember is that he likened to, as a novelist, using trademarked or copyrighted words/products/sayings in a novel. If you use "Kleenex" or "Coca-Cola" or whatever in your novel, it's not infringement unless you - the author - are trying to sell Kleenex or Coca-Cola or whatever. The same (he said) goes for this: you're not trying to sell the movies from which the clips are taken, you're using them to help sell your own product (like using "Coca-Cola" instead of a generic "soda" to make your novel better).

That was his explanation, please don't jump on me.

For me (my opinion now), it's widely done and the various IP owners don't seem to take issue with their clips being used to sell other movies - even when those rip-o-matics are publicly available - so I don't see the problem with it. If I were to do it, it would be in the spirit of selling MY movie, not an attempt to make money off somebody else's work.

Again, IMO only.

John Ellis Not jumping at all and thanks for the clarification. I still don't think that argument, the lawyer's I mean, holds in this context.

But, as you say, it is widely practiced, and copyright holders appear to let it go.

John Ellis (and everyone else) The reason this is important to get right is because as filmmakers everything we do involves someone else's rights. If we are lazy about our understanding, we will make mistakes at some point and it can come back to haunt us. The use of "rip-o-matic" footage in a pitch is expressly and only for businessm purposes, ie. commercial purposes. That takes it out of any possible "fair use" or "de minimus" argument this attorney seems to be making, should a copyright holder decide to take a run at it. Again, though, industry practice would leave it under the radar. So, I leave it to the individual to decide if it is "ethical" (or in my opinion, ethical or not it would undermine my own creativity), and to do what one wants, so long as everyone knows it is unlikely but possible to attract a legal claim.

Well said, Shadow Dragu-Mihai, Esq., Ipg! And I LOVE that we're having this discussion because it's a big point of contention with those who do video essays on YouTube and whether or not they can make money using those clips. There are lots of details to consider, and I found this fantastic article through Framio Insider (although you do have to sign up for their newsletter to read all of it, fair warning): https://blog.frame.io/2017/08/30/copyrights-and-fair-use-for-filmmakers/

Karen "Kay" Ross I did read that, its a good article. (I didn't have to sign up for a newsletter for some reason)

Karen "Kay" Ross Thanks for posting the article. It also had good sources for free to use photos and video footage.

As Shadow Dragu-Mihai, Esq., Ipg also points out, it is important to be aware of these issues, because it can come back to bite you in the rear. We once got a restraining order against a huge publisher, forcing them to delay the release of millions of books to their subscribers, because they had used two photos from one of our publications without our explicit permission. It was a simple paperwork mistake, but ended up costing them dearly.

Rip reels are definitely a thing and helpful for tone when you don't have the footage/budget to execute your vision. Used very often in unscripted pitches.