Producing : Where is the responsibility lie in this on set death/shooting situation: Alec Baldwin “Discharged” Prop Gun That Killed ‘Rust’ Cinematographer Halyna Hutchins & Injured Director On Set by Cherelynn Baker

Obviously this was a tragic occurrence. My heartfelt sympathies and condolences go out to all impacted. Please do not demean this tragedy by making it into a pro/no gun political issue.

Tragic and there are literally no facts available. So it would be, in my respectful opinion, premature to venture and opinion. [EDIT] After talking to some of my colleagues, I WILL say though that if ordinary safety protocols were followed, THIS CANNOT HAPPEN, and apparently the entire camera crew except the DP who was shot walked out before the scene objecting to the lack of safety. Deadline refers to this as a "prop" gun. But it must have been a functioning blank pistol at least, which means that a weapons master / armorer had to be overseeing things. So, prima facie - weapons master / Armorer, First AD and Director are all equally to blame. Those of us who are familiar with the Brandon Lee death, which sounds to be very similar in facts, will know that standard and simple safety protocols would prevent this. As well, in 2021, why have a live weapon on set at all? In Sin 13, we used a functional air-soft gun so we could get working bolt action on a Beretta 92-F lookalike, and pasted actual Beretta 92-F muzzle flashes in during post. Not only for safety - as only a co2 air pop would come out the front of the gun - but for budget as well. Even so, we STILL followed standard safety protocols before each take, which ensured there was nothing insinuated into the barrel or muzzle which could project and hurt anyone.

While I agree with Shadow Dragu-Mihai, Esq., Ipg to the extent that the on-set responsibility lies with the armorer, the ultimate burden is on the producers, for letting the circumstances that led up to this tragedy exist.

As in any leadership role - "the buck stops here." We'll see what kind of integrity the producers have when fingers start getting pointed.

With today's computer sfx and graphics, why would anyone still use actual "prop guns?? HBO's the Mare of Eastown used all "sfx" on their gunplay, and it looked great! The sad thing is it was printed that the assistant director signed off on the gun Baldwin used, even after complaints were made that the prop guns were misfiring. Scheduling constraints, studio pressure, and going over budget I believe leads to these tragic incidents. Maybe if an "Independent" second authorized personnel was there to verify the use of weapons in movies, totally separate from the payroll of the production, these incidents would be minimized. That person could have the power to shut down production till it's proven safe to use "prop guns" on set.

Baldwin is the star, co wrote script, picked the director, and it is his production company. All the news reports suggest the ppl in charge cut corners, replaced the camera crew the day before the shooting. Basically, Baldwin had to know about on-set drama and he did nothing..

Dan MaxXx So I didn't know it was Baldwin at the top, that highlights some of the problems here that are different than most sets. I agree with John Ellis that the producer is responsible at the end of the line, but that really just means the producer's insurance is going to go up as they are an employer and this happened on their set. So they are responsible that way. Outside of this particular situation (which isn't as unusual in film as it would be in other industries), the producers hires the AD and satisfy themselves that the AD has the skills to do the job. After that, the ACTUAL FUNCTIONAL responsibility for safety on set is directly in the hands of the AD. And as we know, in this instance the camera crew left in protest of safety issues, so the AD (as well as Baldwin) is on notice that he's doing a lousy job. It's his fault primarily and at this point, he knows other people know it as well. Yes, Baldwin has responsibility, but again, we still don't know all the facts yet and Baldwin himself should be relying on the AD's skills, not second-guessing them (which apparently he wasn't). Is it likely that the AD will challenge Baldwin on a safety issue, given the obvious pressures here? I have had to make that decision myself as LP and as AD and I looked the director-producer in the eye (In this case the eminent Amir Naderi, one of the highest profile art film directors on the planet) and said "You can't have that shot, it's unsafe and I won't permit anyone to do it." In fact I had to do it several times. Now that takes some guts but an AD who doesn't have guts and judgement shouldn't be an AD.

Speculation doesn’t really help and in this case it could do quite the opposite. Wait. As real info comes out and is released, we will find out what happened. Chat about rumors all you wish, just realize that is what you are doing, but don’t rely on their veracity and it is probably better not to repeat them. Everyone who remembers, think back to the death of Brandon Lee. Lots of spurious “info” and conjecture before the truth came out. Look at who did what and where responsibility fell, and how it ultimately played out. A lesson in many things about our industry.

There had to have been many many overlapping errors made by a number of people for this outcome. It happens. The shared grief in the results of what happened among those who were there must be horrible. I feel sorry for all of those involved.

this is tough. The investigators will sort this out and speculation might have a lot of theories, but not being there and not in the middle of what the investigators are looking at speculation will not be enough to make a judgement on this. Will have to pass.

This avoidable tragedy has several that are responsible for this monumental safety protocol fuck up. First would be the Producer then the Director and first Asst. Director as I read and hear from friends in local 44. The day before, a large percent of the IATSE crew walked off the set due to safety issues and mistreatment of the crew. Their was not one member of Local 44 on set that day of the tragedy. Meaning, construction, set decoration, the prop master, armorer and special effects were not present.

The producers then hired locals to New Mexico (assuming at this point, no IA members or qualified members to replace the department heads that walked off). Big mistake. I also heard that there was no safety meeting (which should be daily by the First AD) given that morning! Apparently, a rehearsal of the scene was about to take place and the First AD was asked to get the "prop gun" to set. Instead of radioing to the prop master or armorer to bring the gun to set, which is proper protocol, he went and grabbed it off the props taco cart and brought it on set.

Why was there no armorer around the prop cart? why wasn't the gun brought to the set by someone qualified? More so ever, why didn't Alec, who has been in countless action dramas with weapons and being taught numerous times gun safety protocols didn't check the prop gun himself ? It is always" the unloaded gun that injures or in this case killed and injured" people! I have been on countless movies with weapons and never saw more than a slight powder burn on a stuntmen. Where was the stunt coordinator? Sad Day.

DD, I had worked in film for 40 years and real weapons always look far better than "CG" weapons. First it gives the actor the recoil, noise and smoke from the prop weapon to get into character and is way more cost effective. The last accident with a Prop gun was Brandon Lee, 30 years ago and safety protocols were in fact not followed !

Daily Beast newspaper cited quotes from crew members. If the article is true, the production was a shitstorm. And Assistant Directors work for producers.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/alec-baldwin-film-rust-hired-inexperienced...

it is not looking good. Preparation is everything and safety. Not good to cut corners like that.

Thank you to all who have shared your thoughts and opinions. I appreciate it!

There has been more information on the incident, and I think it's important to dissect where they went wrong, not just to assign blame. In the meantime, please enjoy this interview with Halyna Hutchins from earlier this year: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AY_nHjqE-k&t=362s

Yes Kay! Thank you for sharing Halyna in her own words.

I have worked on a number of sets which require weapons, including military sets; the safety protocols are straight forward and if followed religiously, ensure this kind of tragedy cannot happen. Honestly, I don't think you can discuss this incident without at least implying blame, so I won't even pretend to avoid it. The Sheriff/DA's press conference yesterday was enlightening but doesn't give us all the facts yet, as they are still interviewing the 100+ union & nonunion people who were on the set at the time. What has been made clear though, as stated by the Sheriff/DA (I paraphrase): (a) film sets have an exceptional safety record on weapons (in fact, as someone else pointed out above, this may the first such incident since Brandon Lee was tragically killed on The Crow, ~30 years ago), (2) the Armorer was in fact on set and seems very clearly to have failed in both custody and safety protocols regarding this particular functioning weapon and non-functioning props; He either permitted the crew or didn't notice them using the weapons for recreational target shooting - which is apparently (pending the Sheriff's conclusions) where the live bullet came from - no actual bullets being required in this (or indeed any) production. Clearly the armorer did not check the weapons out adequately or at all after this was activity. (3) the AD (who has had two safety complaints filed against him on two recent features) also failed to follow simple safety protocols. He was the one who retrieved the weapon from the armorer's area and handed it to Baldwin (it should have been the armorer), telling Baldwin and everyone else it was a "cold gun", while he couldn't possibly have checked the weapon out...at all. Because of course it was in fact a live weapon with a real bullet it in - something which should never exist on any film set. (4) Previous rumors that the entire union crew had walked out in protest over safety are incorrect - a small number of them had however walk out primarily over housing issues. That seems to be where that rumor started, (5) Contrary to rumor, Baldwin himself was noted by several crew in their statements to the authorities, as having taken extra safety precautions in instances where he felt the armorer and director were not doing enough. The Sheriff and DA declined comment on criminal or other liability at this time, and pointedly avoided several reporters repeated attempts to have them express outrage and anger at the production, again citing the excellent safety record of the industry and the fact that this is a very tragic incident which has yet to be investigated fully.

There are some good reasons to use a real gun as a prop on set. VFX can replace some things, and others like realistic recoil, could be accomplished easily enough. However the mass of the weapons seems important to a number of actors re-enforcing the reality of the weapon. The weight part can be worked around easily enough, it being a real weapon, not so much. The one thing I find, as a DP, that is not easily replicated is the muzzle flash and its light falling upon objects in and around the weapon. This is not merely a few flash frames but a textured angular interaction of surfaces, objects and people exposed to the muzzle flash. Visually it is a rather big deal.

Helen, when shooting down the barrel of a gun pointing directly at the camera, the method I always use is a front surface silvered mirror, where the silver is on the top surface of the glass. It avoids and secondary reflection and refraction from shooting a reflection through the glass to the silver mirrored surface. Works wonderfully, once it is flipped horizontally. Still need to use a long lens for safety. Cautions are that front surface silvered mirrors are easily scratched so care in handling is a must. Also make sure nobody is inadvertently standing behind it and it really should not be anywhere near craft services. Whether the gun is hot or not, this is important safety for my crew and I like the people I work with.

I still believe it is too early to speculate on responsibility. More is leaking out daily, but wait for actual official statements before drawing any conclusions. The safety standards for weapons on set are quite good. But if they are not followed, perhaps by a series of people, for whatever reason then …

Colette it is possible to be very safe on set by following the rules, which are there for really good reasons Guns are parts of the stories they are in. Parts of the stories we are hired to make. Part of the stories the audience is watching. A lot would have to change to lessen the number of guns in shows, They have never been a deciding factor at all in whether I agree to a project as I see other aspects of the story as far more important.

I remember the Brandon Lee issue all too well. And the money that changed hands. And the resulting charges of those responsible. Broadly the very same issues that our industry will care about for a while then slowly forget. And those of us who push to keep our folks safe will be under pressure to go faster with tighter budgets or be replaced by those who will. More and more of the rules will be skirted and a body of experience that teaches that nothing went wrong when the rules were dodged. Then the cycle will repeat. And it will. Again and again and again.

The solution starts with writers. Write pictures that don't have guns in them, and the gun problem goes away.

More and more looks like it's going to fall at the feet of the armorer, as the facts develop and as it seemed it should from the beginning: "All eyes have been on the set’s armorer, Hannah Gutierrez Reed, who had only worked as the armorer on one film prior to leading things on "Rust." As she becomes one of the main focuses of the investigation into the death of Hutchins, a new report from the Los Angeles Times indicates that crew members were concerned about her work and that other accidental discharges had happened prior." - https://news.yahoo.com/apos-rust-apos-prop-person-150258221.html

Unless & until more facts become clear - I remain skeptical.