Screenwriting : Rewrites and how many are too many? by Abi Baumann

As I'm sure you know, there is no number for deleting & rewriting scenes. The quippy answer is "Until it's done."

Feedback is good to help iron out the wrinkles in writing and make it work better, but the foundation, the basic structure really is up to you. The more feedback you get across a large body of work, the more you'll come to recognize your own strengths and what works for you. You'll also come to recognize that not all feedback is equal and you need to rely on your own judgement on what needs to change. That only comes from experience and lots of practice.

Was the advice about the content in the scenes or the basic premise of the scenes?

Get advice from people who are successful in the area you want to be successful in, is the best advice I can give.

You can delete and rewrite scene as much as you want, Abi Baumann. I rewrite scripts so many times I lose count, especially feature scripts. Sometimes I'll go back to a script weeks and months later and rewrite parts of it. Most of the time it'll just be small things, like I did with a script today.

Just had an experience like that. for 3 months writing and rewriting scenes changing character dynamics, scene changes all for a low budget director (Per his vision) Completed a 93 page script. He didn't like it - WTF??!! There's no right or wrong answer here.

Dustin Archibald advice was on script format as it was the first time I had used a script format app

Maurice Vaughan that is reassuring to know. I'm just not sure if I'm writing and deleting things because of the comments I received or because I know that what I've written isn't very good.

I think my biggest concern now is I haven't written anything new since the feedback

Richard M Kjeldgaard Im sorry to hear that you had to go through that. Sadly I'm not that far along in my career. This had been the first time I had shared any of my script work with anyone else. I maybe shouldn't have until it was finished.

"I'm just not sure if I'm writing and deleting things because of the comments I received or because I know that what I've written isn't very good." You could get more feedback to be sure, Abi Baumann. If the same issues come up, it might be a script quality thing.

"I think my biggest concern now is I haven't written anything new since the feedback." I like to write short scripts in between feature scripts. Shorts don't take a lot of time, and they help me get better at writing.

"I maybe shouldn't have until it was finished." Yeah, I think it's best to wait until you have a final draft before getting feedback so the reader won't have to focus on first draft issues, second draft issues, etc.

Hi Abi - a little context would help. Who are you rewriting 'for'? Is it for a class or a teacher or for yourself? When you ask about rewriting being acceptable - acceptable to who?

Usually - early on in their writing, people have to write hundreds of pages of finished scripts to develop their writing from 'apprenticeship' level to a 'good' level. The worst thing you can do is to stop every 5 pages and overanalyse what you've done. We've all done it and it's a reason why some people get stuck and don't move on. Don't beat yourself up and don't put an unrealistic pressure on yourself.

If you are writing a spec screenplay you can rewrite it as many times as you want. I don’t get feedback but you should only make changes to your screenplay if you think it will improve the screenplay.

Abi Baumann Formatting is tricky for sure. It sounds like you're on your way to getting the hang of that. My suggestion is just write whatever comes to mind and come back to it later. That way you can be confident that your decision making is good.

Feedback is vital and rewriting is an ongoing, organic process. Remember, it's your script. Continue to follow that same heart that started writing it in the first place. That said, I don't think there is a limit or rule to rewriting. I have a friend who has been working on one particular script for years. As the world has changed, the script has evolved. She's doing another rewrite now. Believe in your writing and just think about who is giving you notes, why they are giving you notes, and make decisions that you feel are in the best interest of your creation.

When you start doubting the viability of your story, then that's too many.

Stefano Pavone Sam Sokolow Dustin Archibald Dan Guardino John Fernando Maurice Vaughan Richard M Kjeldgaard thank you all for the wonderful advice and supportive comments.

So many great advice and observations. From

what I gather as a collective you are suggestion it's better if I just get on with writing the complete script first, then possibly show it to someone for feedback and advice.

looking back just one opening scenes probably wasn't enough for someone to give an in depth feebsck on. Hopefully a couple of days away from overhinking the comments made might help. To add context unaware to me the person I shared the pages with is even more of an amateur screenwriter thank me. I studied it for a year-long project in college 20 years ago and was told to do it as a career. The idiot that I am didn't.So for now maybe I should just get the story/ script down onto the page and tweak it myself when it's finished before sharing it with anyone.

I think I've read that from your helpful comments correctly?, please let me know if ive misunderstood.

John Fernando to answer your question, I am going alone at the moment. In my area, there are no classes so reading a lot of free online resources and reading scripts to learn formatting etc.

For now, you could say I'm writing for me. The idea I'm writing at the moment was unplanned and came to me fully formed last week. I've outlined it and written a lot of dialogue. it's a case of adding the script elements, scene directions and correct formats. I did attempt this but apparently, it was awful and now I can't write

I just rewrote a script coined back in 2008...It ain't over till the lights go out in the theatre...

Great question and observation Abi. I'm a Writer Consultant with Stage 32 and I completely appreciate that feeling. One thing to really keep in mind is that what exists in your head will naturally be more clear because your mind unconsciously fills in gaps in logic or character or scenes that become glaring when you put pen to paper. The rewrites are a way of clarifying and getting closer to that idea in your mind. If you want to discuss more feel free to write me at success@stage32.com and I'll give some additional insights.

You're welcome, Abi Baumann.

"From what I gather as a collective you are suggestion it's better if I just get on with writing the complete script first, then possibly show it to someone for feedback and advice." Yeah, exactly.

"To add context unaware to me the person I shared the pages with is even more of an amateur screenwriter thank me." I suggest getting feedback from a pro. And peer feedback can help, but I suggest getting it from someone who's more experienced than you.

Kiril Maksimoski Firstly love the metaphor and secondly, congrats on finishing the script

Jason Mirch thank you for the kind offer, I have emailed you

Maurice Vaughan yes, next time I will definitely ask for advice from those more experienced. Which at this point would be most people.

This may or may not work.

Delete the scene and read the entire screenplay. What does the story need. Can the things that scene achieves be done by just adding stuff to existing scenes. This will often make those scenes better.

I did a video about three scenes becoming a single scene to save pages. Perhaps doing this will work here.

Feedback is relative. I've had professional feedback for a comedy where the reader said that a certain running gag I had was over done. A notable producer that I'm working a deal with commented that the same running gag was hilarious and she loves it. SO point is, you're the writer, trust your instincts that you can tell a great story!

When do you do the rewrites? Personally after finishing a draft I just walk away from it a while and work on something else, before going back. I usually can look at it new then.

Craig D Griffiths thanks for the advice I will give it a go

Cannon Rosenau that’s a interesting point. it all depends on the person reading the script and TBH the person who looked at me has no credits or degrees in screenwriting something I didn’t know until later .

Start off by thinking about who is giving you feedback. Unless it's a professional paid for service or your film's director, if it was me, I don't really care what you think of the story. Everyone is a critic, but so few are working professionals. Stay positive!

Bill Albert thanks for your insights. I may well do the same. if I can ever get writing the script again

This is why feedback is an inefficient and painful way to build craft skills and find your artistic voice. It will just send you in circles until you're exhausted. It makes far more sense to study the craft and engage in active practice on your own terms. Once you know how to tell an entertaining story and have found the tone you naturally write in, you can seek feedback from people who matter (i.e people who can make things happen for you), but even then, you need to be on the same or similar wavelength before doing any rewrites, otherwise it's a wasted cause.

Screenplays are living documents. They never stop changing.

How many passes just to get script in shape for a read request?

CJ Walley you make a valid point and it’s where I went completely wrong. (seeking advice from someone even less experienced than me)

I’m studying the craft via free online resources and attempting to write what I thought was a good idea at the time.

I think the collective advice I have been given suggests I should just write the first draft whilst it’s fresh in my mind and then seek advice once it’s complete, from appropriately qualified sources.

thanks for your thoughts .

Stephen Folker thanks for the reply, I have had a week to reflect on the feedback and slowly building my confidence back up, even managed to write a paragraph or two yesterday for the script that got such terrible feedback.

I’m now going to get myself refocused and just get the script finished at least that way I have something down on paper so to speak. A first draft however awful is better than nothing.

Dan MaxXx good question! I have no clue if the answer

Pete Conrad I love that analogy and I’ll try and remember it as I write thank you

Has anyone ever had this happen... Reader " I passed on your script because from the start I knew exactly where it was going".... Reader "I passed on your script because from the outset I had no idea where it was going"...

I haven't had that happen, Phil Stubbs, but from the first comment it sounds like the script is predictable/lacks surprises and twists. From the second comment it sounds like the reader was confused by what was going on in the script.

Abi Baumann - (I LOVE that name by the way! - I am ALWAYS looking for names to use) anyways - I understand! I sent my work in, scared to death, for the first time. I wanted notes, help, ideas,. What I got back was terrible! Full of mean hearted, non helpful lecturing (I paid for by the way) on how the process works, which yes I knew but I had to get my story out to see if it worked, if it flowed. I was allowed to send 5 out of 8 episodes, with a time limit on the "special" price , and I even put in my notes the last few episodes were not overly proofread yet. Should they have been - yes that was on me but... I did not need the page and a half lecture on it either. That would came AFTER the writing was more complete - why pay for it more than once. I was disenchanted to say the least. BUT here I still am. Pushing on still. I took ,the notes accepted them, took the good, negative and helpful parts , dug in and did some more work on my writing. The negative were fine - just not the lecture and nasty opinions that really did not speak to the writing or story at all.. Not what I was paying for the service to get back. When I was ready once again, I relooked, and found a new person to help me who is AMAZING! I have torn my Pilot apart several times - ideas change and grow, and some totally die. As I work, better and stronger ideas take over. It's all good - part of the process.

I've had two wildly divergent "experts" say the opposite things on one of mine. One liked it and another didn't. Neither wanted to explore working on it to get it made. It's all opinion and subjective, as with any person who judges a work of art. Van Gogh never sold anything while alive. Now he's the highest priced artist. The industry seems to be built on connections. The "A rated scripts" often seem seriously flawed to me. But there is an "A list cast" or director attached. So it gets made.

Kay Gossage-Longo firstly

Kay Gossage-Longo firstly

Jon Shallit Marsy Robinson thank you both. part of my problem is I probably went for feedback too early. Only after I had written a few pages. that being said, those pages apparently were terrible so now everything I write I delete because Im overthinking it.

Marsy not sure which country your in but maybe we can have a DM chat?

In Stephen King's book, "On Writing" he reveals that he generally does two major re-writes and a polish.

There is no magic number for deletes and rewrites. Rewrite until you feel great about your work or until someone whose talent you respect says they love the script. At the end of the day, it is your vision. Other people’s opinions are just that. Use them as a guide versus an absolute. Use the feedback that makes sense to you and never mind the rest. Good luck!

yea Abi i agree with Maria Baltazzi , i had 3 revisions on on a script i wrote , change this change that , than when i finally got to the person who wanted it $ he said aww man i liked the first one more lol .... now i take advice but also am very strong on my gut feeling

Marsy Robinson what do you mean by beat out the idea? so far I have all the scenes mapped out some have dialogue to. I just need to write it

Chase Cysco I'm thinking I need to just get the first draft done and not worry about the format etc at this point a bad script is better than no script, which is what I have at the moment.

thanks Chase Cysco and Maria Baltazzi will take your advice on board

The main thing to remember is that its a process. Even the best writers know their first draft is the first of many where they'll refine their idea into its final form.

Ewan Dunbar Yes absolutely, I know there are going to me multiple rewrites my issue is the urge to rewrite something the moment I have written it

Abi Baumann I totally hear where you’re coming from! I’m not an expert, but wanted to offer what works for me.

I try to finish first:

I have found it helpful just to get something down, acknowledge that it’s not super, accept that it’s not super, move on, and finish the draft. I personally find it easier to rework a finished script than to engage in heavy sweating scene by scene, line by line, word by word before I even know how the script will end. Sometimes I’ll go back and realize that the whole scene can be cut out, or that it actually works in the context of the whole script and wasn’t as bad as I thought. Overall, I’d rather rework parts in support of the whole than rework the whole in support of the parts.

Feedback is a gift, but so are socks:

I read somewhere that constructive feedback can be looked at as a gap in communication. In other words, if I wrote a scene with an effect in mind, but the reader didn’t pick up on it, then l just didn’t communicate with that reader. Maybe it’s the reader, but it’s more than likely a failure to effectively broadcast my thoughts or emotions. It happens all the time in my daily life, so I shouldn’t be aghast when it happens on paper. I’ll then try to figure out how, or if, I can do a better job of communicating. All in all, no big deal.

Inventing an imaginary me:

Once I have my feedback and take some time to identify where I can do some reworking, I pretend that I’m rewriting someone else’s work. It helps me separate myself from the “but do you see whyyyyy I wrote that” and allows me to take an objective stance. Plus, I can pretend someone hired me to do a rewrite :) I wouldn’t react negatively to sprucing up someone else’s work, so I’m less likely to latch onto the negative and just fix what I can.

Fear not, I’ve entered the rewrite-as-I-go time tunnel. “Let me switch this one line of dialogue real quick…. Wait, is that a dangling preposition? Wait, now that action line doesn’t make sense… They wouldn’t say that. Oh God what happened to the subtext? Did I write that? What was the point of this scene anyway? Ah! Ah! Panic!” Five hours have passed…

Brian Naughton thank you, your words are very informative. I think what you say about just getting the idea down on the page is something I really must do. Especially as you pretty much described my current issue perfectly in your last paragraph. if I spent as much time writing as I do re-reading and writing scenes I've already got down on the page. I'd have the thing written by now.

M LaVoie M LaVoie the script writes itself?! yes, please!

I find that the dialogue between the characters especially the two main leads is flowing easily enough it's more writing their body movements/ reactions/ emotions that I'm struggling with. it's the first time in doing it as a show not tell and not using thoughts like you would in usual story format and I think it's that what is hindering my writing.

I have the feeling from what people have advised me it's a case of splurging the idea out and dealing with the finer details later.

This is what I would do if you have trouble with getting stuck on what is best, and go into an endless loop of "what about this? but maybe THAT is better...".

Act it out! YOU be the actors reading the lines and MOVING, and using props, and go to a location similar to what you are writing about. Write down your FIRST reaction to each event, so that the flow is ORGANIC. Don't change ANYTHING from your first response each time.

Sounds like those ensemble improve shows, like the one with Drew Carey...

Then if you must revise, do it after the whole thing is done.

Personally, I never revise anything. I know that is heresy. But from the first line I just take dictation. I never plan anything. Who knows what they will say and do until they DO it?

Then afterwards, the synopsis, etc. and logline. I know this is backwards, but it works for me.

It's very fast. Full feature in 2 weeks or less.

Same with ghost written novels. I have the requesters tell me their stories in any order. I take notes and organize them.

Sorry. Improv not improve. I have covid so I am slowed down a bit.

Jon Shallit thanks I shall give it a go

In all seriousness, if this spec is the only script you have & you're constantly rewriting, then you are failing. This pro occupation is about writing stacks & stacks of scripts. Got to have more than one finished idea.

Dan MaxXx i have three scripts on the go. It was just a case of one was more prominent than others

Hey Abi,

Here's a quote from Linda Seger that could help you in that regard: "When writing, it is not enough to have a good idea, or even to write it down. It’s the rewriting stage that makes this text great, and this is even more true when it comes to a screenplay. When rewriting, you will actually be faced with the same principles as when writing your screenplay."

With that being said, rewriting is more about tweaking your script so that it makes sense for you and the reader.

Marcel Nault Jr. this is a great quote, very helpful, thank you . I’m just going to let the story let itself be told and do as many rewrites that it demands and not be so worried about if.

Some random thoughts on rewriting. It is always difficult and always essential. Rather than delete scenes and/or dialogue into the netherworld, consider saving your full original as "Screenplay I", then the second version after the deletions as "Screenplay II." That way if you decide the initial version was better, you can alway bring it back. Bite the bullet and get professional feedback from a legitimate contest. You can take some or all of the suggestions to heart and it helps direct you in your rewrite(s). Finally, when you think your baby is fully dressed and ready, pay for development notes, again from a respected source. Once you've done that and rewritten your script, trust me, rewriting other projects after that won't be quite as difficult. I've rewritten all of my scripts at least one time, often three or four times. Good luck.

There is no rule. I have had first or second drafts optioned and have written as many as twenty rewrites on others.

Writing IS rewriting, I've heard famous writers say. Just get it down on paper, then continue to rewrite until you leave the breakfast truck and head to the set. Happens daily! lol.

Abi Baumann - Hopefully not being redundant: A reader/reviewer's comments are just an opinion that is no more or less valuable than your own. Simply ask, like you do when you have your own ideas, does this help my story or not? Often times, feedback is helpful - but just as often, it is not. So follow your heart and your story and you'll never go wrong. IMO :-)

Daniel Broderick I like the idea of having two versions of the script. I stupidly hadn't thought of that idea. It seems logical to keep the first draft as a comparison to the rewrites, thank you for the suggestion.

Peter J. Gibbons thank you for your reply. in regard to the rewrites was it a case of the storyline fitting into place that stops you for doing another rewrite. Like a ‘once you know when to stop you know’kind of feeling?

sorry if that makes no sense