Producing : Ask Me Anything (AMA) Wednesday 8/21 to Thursday 8/22 - Producing & Selling Unscripted Content by Catherine Keithley Lawson

Hi, Catherine Keithley Lawson. It's great to meet you. Thanks for having this AMA. Are there different ways to get into producing unscripted television?

When pitching an unscripted show is it mandatory to have either talent or the “world” in place before pitching?

Hi Catherine Keithley Lawson - thanks so much for this AMA and spending your day with us! Question: What appeals to you the most about unscripted vs scripted and what are the differences in the challenges you face? Thanks in advance!

Hi Catherine Keithley Lawson, it's just great seeing this AMA. Q: How does unscripted television or productions deal with the complications of legalities and authorizations for someone's on screen appearance or lets say employment in general? Thanks!

Catherine Keithley Lawson thank you for doing the AMA, Catherine! What materials do you have to have in place, for pitching, that differs? Are there more clearances and rights involved?

Maurice Vaughan great to be connected! Happy to be part of the Stage32 community and do this AMA. Yes, there are several routes to get into unscripted television. I think it ultimately depends on the person and what they are willing to offer in terms of time and commitment. If you're looking to make a career out of it, I would say it requires starting at the bottom and working your way up just like you would in any career. Perhaps taking a production assistant job or even an internship to get your foot in the door with an unscripted crew. From there, you can ride the wave jumping from job to job as a freelancer with new opportunities coming from higher up producers that you meet on shows. For me, I started working as an assistant to a producer and then worked my way up in the production company world. If you're looking to simply sell a show and want to be more of a hands off producer (which is totally okay) and not work on set just simply consult on creative, then you would want to go the "Consulting Producer" route. That is exactly what Stage32 is great for because then you would pitch your show idea to executives and if one says yes to developing it further, you get to move your show forward to potentially pitching to networks and hopefully a series sale! Hope this answers your question.

Rick Wheeler that is a great question. For unscripted pitches, I believe it is crucial to have talent in place or a close connection to "the world" or subculture you are pitching. Then it makes it real to an executive that you can actually wrangle the talent needed to produce the show. It gets you one step closer to a realistic pitch rather than a "pie in the sky" pitch. Executives want to see all the elements as close as they could to being an actual show, the less work needed on their part to develop it, the better the chance they'll pick it up with you and move it forward to take it to market.

Thanks for the detailed answer, Catherine Keithley Lawson!

Eon C. Rambally another great question! Typically we have lawyers advise us on any legal red flags from the moment the show is sold. As a credible production company, you always have to have a general liability insurance in place to protect your production when you go out to shoot in the field and lots of times that covers an incidentals that might take place that were beyond your control. For example, when we shot Escape the Night Season 4 for YouTube Originals, we were on a night shoot out in Simi Valley and got hit with a wind storm with 65 mph winds. We were shooting a hedge maze challenge and the hedges we rented were obliterated by the wind. That night we had to cancel the shoot and reschedule everyone to come back the following business day. There were major costs to reschedule and get all the bodies back on set to work, extensions on rentals and gear, not to mention we had to get the hedges repaired or had new ones flown in to set in time. After wrap, we had to submit an insurance claim to get the overages paid back to the production company which was a very lengthy process. Weather is always an issue on set when shooting unscripted. Back to your second part of your question, when it comes to clearing anyone seen on camera, we have to have that person sign a release which grants us permission to use their name and/or likeness. The same goes for any business signage, brands, logos, artwork, and recognizable locations. We always hang a wide area release when filming in public and have a person committed on set to clearing people who might be seen in the shot. We also always clear the known locations before a shoot. Talent are always released prior to shooting since they will be speaking on camera and potentially disclosing personal details pertaining to their life or business. When it comes to employment, we follow the standards of CA labor laws and union rules even if we are a non union shoot. Typically lawyers run through all legal with EP's before any shoot to make sure we are covered in every way when it comes to the law.

Leonardo Ramirez I always love getting this question. The differences between shooting unscripted and scripted television are huge! I love shooting unscripted television because the stories are REAL. The people you meet and the drama that unfolds are real my friends. As producers we might story produce based on known past situations among individuals being featured but really when the cameras are rolling in reality shows, the stuff you're seeing is all unfolding naturally. It is our job as producers to document and story-tell leaving no gaps in the beginning, middle and end. Scripted well, its all actors with lines being delivered. We all know what's coming in each shot. In unscripted, anything could happen and that lights a fire in us as unscripted producers. There is nothing better than discovering an unbelievable story before your eyes when doing an interview or shooting scene work. With that all being said, it makes it much harder to pull off and produce. Unscripted means less money to make the show and less control of your set. The implications can be great when you're dealing with a lot of unknowns on set. When we hear pitches, our producer brain is running through the potential risks and what it takes to pull off the show you're pitching. Just think about what it took to produce the opening ceremony of the Olympics. That was a very stressful shoot for Peacock!

Geoff Hall thanks for your question! In the beginning stages of pitching to development execs, I would say do not worry about rights and clearances. That is the production company's job to deal with with the network later on when the show is sold. Your focus right now in the beginning stages of developing a show should be the actual pitch of the show. What is your logline? What is the format? Who is your host and/or cast? Once you can verbalize those elements, put them into a one pager summarizing this and then... you have a pitch! Typically from there, the materials we develop further may differ based on the concept. For a game show, we play the game live with execs or for a reality docu-series, we might shoot a short casting reel where you'll meet the talent. In the beginning though, it all starts with the basics on paper.

Love that realness Catherine Keithley Lawson. Thank you!

Thanks for the answer. Catherine Keithley Lawson. Need that extra support in discussions, aware of the sometimes influentials that believe otherwise. Thankful also to Stage 32 and the collaboration in this AMA, for continued professionalism and relevant supportive atmosphere. It’s well appreciated!

Thank you for sharing your time with us today, Catherine Keithley Lawson! What does the future look like for unscripted content? Are you seeing trends leaning toward interests or needs in certain types of unscripted series?

Hi Catherine Keithley Lawson - thanks so much for doing this AMA! I had the pleasure of working with Brian back when he ran MTV Networks - he's brilliant and a gem of a person. It feels like long-form documentary series are gaining more traction than classic reality formats (with the exception of mainstays like Queer Eye, Vanderpump, The Bachelor, etc.). I'd love your thoughts on that and if you see new talent-driven reality shows or formats are still being developed. Thanks, again!

Catherine Keithley Lawson Thank you for sharing your time with us today!

Ashley Renee Smith you are very welcome. In terms of future of unscripted content, I think now is a great time to be developing shows for all platforms. As you've probably read in the trades, the consolidation of networks continue... Hulu is now programming for Nat Geo and ABC as of late. Paramount TV just closed its doors for original content. A&E studios just laid off its tenure execs at Lifetime, A&E, and History Channel. For new reality shows to prevail in this tricky selling market, I think we need to start looking to the platforms that already love and embrace "lo-fi" content... TikTok, YouTube and Instagram. There is a lot of brand money with agency to create branded unscripted content and that is a piece of business that can be tapped into now more than ever. While the subscription model is weakening in profits, the advertising model (just as it was in the beginning of television) is reining supreme. Last year, I was honored to produce a show we were daytime Emmy nominated this year for Tastemade called "Street Somm." That show aired on Tastemade but was actually funded by Constellation Brands. In exchange for the production budget from Constellation, we just needed to pair 3 wines in each episode with a handful of unexpected dishes. While it might be hard to sell traditionally right now to broadcast and cable networks, the success continues over in the world of digital! As far as trends go, I would say the cheaper to produce... the better. Unless of course you have an A-list talent attached then the sky is the limit.

Thank you for being here Catherine Keithley Lawson I have a question that I have been dying to know, how do they do it. You didn't mention competition shows, but you may still know the answer. When it comes to shooting a competition show like CHOPPED or HELL'S KITCHEN and they have interviews with the competitors "talking heads" that are seemingly in the middle of the action, does that mean they pause during the cook to interview people, or do they do the cook, then take the time to interview the competitors so they can "narrate" before the winner is revealed? How long does it take to film one day? Are there do overs?

Sam Sokolow so great to be connected again! Yes, I believe you know a good friend of mine too, Sam Sabawi. We all go way back working for Brian when BGM was first starting out! Yes, long-form documentaries are certainly the play now for unscripted teams at Netflix and Hulu. Its really about that buzzy headline that would get attention in the press. As for talent driven reality shows and formats, I would say yes, they are still being developed but there are less and less being made and that simply comes down to cost. Documentary television is much cheaper to produce. I think the more crafty you can be in today's market when it comes to getting things made, the higher the results in sales as producers. Networks sadly just have less to spend now on programming.

Suzanne Bronson this is a fantastic question. Typically on competition shows in the production schedule, we build in times for contestants to pop into their interview room. There is a story producer in there who will have notes from the episodes they need bites on to narrate what is happening in a particular challenge. On the competition shows I produced (Escape the Night and Instant Influencer), we did interviews at the end of our shoot day (yes, it is brutal and a wildly long day for everyone). The reason we would do that is because the action is fresh on the talent and producer’s minds. Now… let’s say someone is eliminated that day. Typically we will have them do their exit interview which covers all bites needed for the time they are on the show and up to their elimination. Do we get behind on interviews? Absolutely. People are tired and they want to sleep. We also have to have a certain amount of hours between wrap and the next call time the next day so sometimes it’s not feasible if a challenge ran longer than expected. Lots of times we have interview days after we wrap actual production to cover anything that was missed. And if we do miss something in the edit after all that then we go in and drop in a VO line (voice over line) where we will have talent record weeks later in the edit to fix it. It’s actually a whole ordeal to get those pretty talking head interviews but they are so critical for story.

So they do go back and do a play by play as if it's happening, even after they have been eliminated? Thank you @Catherine for explaining. I have been wondering about that. And Thank you for being here.

Suzanne Bronson that is exactly right! The talent sits down straight to camera and answers a series of questions about what all just went down. They always recite in present tense.

Heyo! 2 questions here:

As someone who's traditionally gone all in on creating detailed pitch decks and sizzle reels, I'm curious about streamlining the pitching process. You mentioned that a one-pager summary can be enough to have a pitch ready, which challenges my usual approach. How do you identify what's truly essential at each stage of pitching unscripted content, from the initial one-pager to the final presentation?

Additionally, with the digital landscape evolving and the diversity of potential buyers expanding, how should I approach prioritizing my pitches across various categories and formats (sports, home design, travel, etc.) to effectively target the right buyers and maximize opportunities?

Phil Moore you bring up a very good point. I would ask for a one pager if I were looking at a pitch submission from a producer in Stage32 during a pitch fest. If I were pitching at production exec at a production company via email… I would write a short blurb and share a pretty deck. If I were pitching someone formally on Zoom at a prod co or network, I would send a sizzle reel prior to the meeting and run through the deck quickly for 5-8 minutes total. Ultimately… doing all this development work makes you think through the various ways an exec is looking to say no. The work is always worth it in the end but I do know that development can take a ton of time that isn’t paid for. So with all that being said, I like to respect people’s time by asking for a simple one pager. Ultimately it’s the package of the project and the twist in the pitch that makes an idea wildly fresh that gets an exec to bite.

Phil Moore and to answer your second question (also a great question!) I would write out the list of networks you realistically see your show at. From there, tier them out based on who is actually likely to put something on air like it. From there, develop your materials with that tier 1 list in mind. For the tier 2 and 3’s you can adjust your materials based on their needs. For example, a glossy, ensemble docu-series with over the top loud talent is more likely to get made at Netflix, E! or Hulu versus a place like TLC. They are really not about over the top living, so I would walk back the luxurious parts of that pitch to make it more humanized and focused on a family or subculture. You also want to prioritize taking out what is likely to sell in this market. A travel show and talk show is a very hard sell right now. Going with a documentary series is a lower hanging fruit depending on the genre. Hope this helps answer your question!