Anything Goes : Audio/ Video upload by Scott Munson

Hi All......not sure if anyone is seeing this so I'll dialogue with myself for awhile..... The more I read about Social media and intellectual property the more I'm concerned with the wording of Stage32's terms of use......I'm hesitant to upload anything.....compare for example Facebook's terms of use; still not great but more favorable........ it reads.... "For content that is covered by intellectual property rights, like photos and videos (IP content), you specifically give us the following permission, subject to your privacy and application settings: you grant us a non-exclusive, transferable, sub-licensable, royalty-free, worldwide license to use any IP content that you post on or in connection with Facebook (IP License). This IP License ends when you delete your IP content or your account unless your content has been shared with others, and they have not deleted it." Well, that's not great either but distinctly different from S32's. Please tell me I'm missing something here........... I want to make good use of this site, I really like it. I've contacted Stage32 but haven't had a response yet, but it's only been a couple of days..... I would think we'd all want a clear answer on this as most of us, I'm sure, to facilitate networking, are uploading works and ideas. Perhaps the key phrase in S32's terms is "...Content on the Website is owned by the Company or its licensors" So if I upload some original content, music, video or whatever, am I the "licensor"??? Or does S32 somehow become the owner.... I don't think I'm being too paranoid.....or perhaps I am..... Please excuse all the ... (dot dot dots) I notice the program doesn't follow my page breaks.

Wow - this is a real concern! I would like to know the answer, too.

OK....having read a bit more I guess I understand that I am the Licensor and that I grant them (from S32's terms) "...License To Use Your Content. Company may provide, without any obligation to do so, the authorization and means for You to post or otherwise provide comments and/or other Content to Stage 32. If so, You hereby grant to the Company and its Stage 32™ trademark licensor, a worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, sublicenseable and transferable license ("Content License") to copy, reproduce, distribute, transmit, disseminate, prepare derivative works of, display, and perform, and otherwise use, by any and all means now known or hereinafter invented, all of Your Content that You upload, submit, or otherwise provide to, Stage 32™ and/or Company, including without limitation, via submission to the Website or by any other means ("Licensed Rights"). ALSO form the terms: "..."Your Content" and "Licensed Work" shall interchangeably mean any and all Content of every kind that You upload to the Website or otherwise provide to the Company and/or its successors, and/or the future operator(s) of the Website. For example, if the Company allows You to comment on Content provided by Members or others, Your comments would comprise, without limitation, Your Content. Sorry S32 for this.....but I think it's important for all of us to understand the CONTRACTS we enter into. A VERY important part of what we do. For instance, when I wrote some music for the film "Another Earth" I had to go to great lengths to insure they put the following clause in: The Picture may be exhibited by means of television by networks, non-networks, local stations, or closed circuits having valid performance licenses therefore from BMI, ASCAP or SESAC; or b. If at any time any television network, television station or other company licensed to broadcast the Picture (the "Television Entity") does not or may not hold a blanket non-dramatic performing license from BMI, ASCAP or SESAC, then Producer ...." has to get permission from me....

What I get out of it, and this is just my take on it, is that: by posting anything on this site you give them permission to use it in anyway they want to. Which is necessary to have others view your profile. Otherwise your profile would not be able to be viewed legally by anyone. The writer, I am sure, wants to make it long, almost understandable, and full of vocabulary. :)

Thanks Dan and James, very helpful!

It makes sense, but I still think that you should copy writes on anything that you use

wow, that is a good question, Scott. Thanks everybody for your insight. Scott, did u ever hear from S32?

Hi Jules, Haven't heard yet, but it's only been a few days, so we'll see. I'll keep you posted.

Yes you are so right!

Yikes....this is unfortunate. Well, one can refer people elsewhere (ones own website) to sample work.....Thank you all for participating in this very important discussion

Hello ladies and gentlemen. I apologize for the late response to this, but the thread was literally brought to my attention a short while ago. We did receive one email, but it was sent to a general address. I received a DM this morning and here I am. In short, Scott, I have nothing to add to your 3rd post in this thread where you break down the meaning of the terms. A bang up job, by the way! Thank you for your level headed approach to the matter. Our terms and conditions were drafted by legal to be similar to those on FB, LinkedIn, You Tube and many other social media sites. I appreciate all of those who commented in the thread.

Thank you for your reply "RB"..... I understand, as you said..."similar to those on FB, LinkedIn, You Tube and many other social media sites....." Though frankly I don't understand, across the board, why it is so. Is there a compelling reason? And why should you follow suit, anyway? I mean, if I uploaded a sample of music, say 30 seconds, and Stage 32, it's company or its successors (an important point), really liked it and wanted to use it in a web ad, you would never have to get my permission to do so, or pay me a dime. And lets say your "successor" to which you transferred the license to was an AD agency....they could then use the same music in a TV ad and again, never ask permission or pay for it's use.....it's a brave new world indeed. I understand this is the same with the other above mentioned sites....BUT WHY??? Why does this clause exist? I do appreciate your site, and I know how much work it takes to maintain one. I'm not even sure how you all make money as I don't see traditional web ads. However....we all provide the CONTENT for the site, so perhaps you could forge a new path in your terms and word it more equitable towards the content builders. As artists I think we're all a little extra sensitive to our creations being lifted or used without permission.....I know I am.

Hey Scott...I'll try to answer your questions best I can. But first, some clarifications. Your last paragraph assumes I am not an artist. Of course, nothing could be further from the truth. I am an actor, a screenwriter, and a producer. If you read our Mission Statement (https://www.stage32.com/content/our-mission), you'll see why we were compelled to start Stage 32. As an artist, I understand the need to protect my work. Let's take my screenwriting work for example. Once I complete a script to the point where I am comfortable with the material, I register the script with the WGAW and the Copyright Office. I take a few other minor protective measure as well, but those two main measures offer me as much protection as I'm going to get. Then, at some point, I have to let my material go... I've posted my loglines and scripts here on Stage 32. I have also posted them on sites that have similar terms and conditions to the social media sites mentioned in my previous post. I have also composed music in the past and have posted clips in a variety of places. Again, in these cases, I've protected myself as much as I could and treated the online world no differently than I do the offline world. Opportunity is opportunity to me, especially in the digital world. The posting of my loglines and scripts here on 32 has led to my meeting a producer who is shepherding one script, a contact that led me to another producer with whom I recently signed a Shopping Agreement with, and a theater producer who is interested in turning one of my scripts into a play. I have no fear in any of these situations that my material will be stolen. Now let me back up a bit and talk about the site as a whole. This is a free site. We do not charge a membership fee. That does not mean that WE don't need protection. When we started exploring this venture, I enlisted one of the top First Amendment and Intellectual Property firms to handle our T&C. This was not an inexpensive proposition. It would take forever to explain the intricacies of running a site like this from a legal standpoint. You ask why many of these sites have similar terms and language...The short answer is that they need to be protected as well. I can promise you this, if any of our 125,000 members started a site like this today and hired a legal team (I would certainly hope) to handle their T&C, when the paperwork came back it would look similar to ours, Facebook's, You Tube's, LinkedIn's, My Space's, etc, etc, etc. Within this thread, however, are some really spot on observations as to some of the Why's...There are a couple in particular that are really on the nose. (Here's to you, James, as per usual) But the bottom line is this: If you feel uncomfortable posting your materials, by all means, don't. It's certainly your choice. We give our users full autonomy over their profile. Perhaps when you communicate with someone privately, you feel there is less risk. That's fine as well. My view, and I can tell you after being in the business for 10 years that this is the view of most who toil in the day to day, is protect your work and then get it in as many hands as humanly possible. Finally, to address a couple of your comments about the site. You say that our users provide all the content. That's simply not true. The content is the site and all the features and resources we've built into the framework. We have given creatives an opportunity to network with other creatives in any way they see fit. We have given them a page to market themselves, promote their work, host their resumes, again, any way they see fit. For many who can't afford to have a personal website built, their Stage 32 page acts as their calling card. And we've given them this space and this opportunity for free. We built this site to give people a greater chance of making their dreams come true. We built it so that creatives could share ideas, teach, learn, and excel. If you do not post a clip of your music, it doesn't hurt the network at all. In my opinion, it simply decreases your chances scoring a film or selling your music. There are 125,000 creatives here. And each of them has their own approach. The network spins on. As to the amount of work it takes to maintain a site like this, believe me...take what you think and multiply it by 100. We're a 2 man crew. That's it...2 people. We do our best each day, every day. I'm not sure how long you've been a member, but if you've been here a while you know how active I am within this community, how I try to address each post, every question directed my way. I do it because it matters. It means something to me. Thanks for listening. RB

Thanks RB....... I never meant to imply anyone was or wasn't an artist. I think your reading too much into that. I simply meant to address your first response to this thread and ask the question "why is it so?" Every contract I've signed for film or TV with respect to my music allows the producers, often, to use the music "through out the universe in perpetuity" only in CONNECTION WITH the film (ie: the film, trailers, ads for the film, etc.....). Why can't it be so here, in this realm? The way the Terms read now, S32, the company, it's successors can use any material here for whatever, whenever, forever. You don't need to sell me on the benefits of using your site, and if I haven't sufficiently expressed my gratitude to you and your team before for all your hard work, then I do so now. And I never meant to minimize the amount of creative work you and your team have put into the creation of this site. You all have done A GREAT JOB! Also, I'm well aware that IP is never really secure with the creator. But as Dan said, you did not answer the question. A typical film music contract might read: "Licensor hereby grants to Producer the non-exclusive, irrevocable right, license, privilege, and authority in perpetuity to record, dub, synchronize, edit and use, in each country of the Territory (and to import the recordings of the Masters into any country throughout the Territory), the aforesaid type and use of the Masters in synchronization or in timed-relation with the Picture, and to make copies of such Masters in the Picture, and to exhibit, distribute, perform, broadcast, market and perform and otherwise exploit the Masters in the Picture (including, for the avoidance of doubt, all trailers, featurettes, advertisements and promotional material therefor) perpetually throughout each country in the Territory in all media now known or hereafter devised and in any and all languages and any manners and format now known or hereafter devised." "....in timed-relation with the Picture" limits their use of the music. So the question is: Why can't it be so here, that IP placed here by the users can only be used in connection with the website Stage 32, thereby putting limits on the IP usage.

Dan, I have to admit, I'm a bit disappointed. Given your experience with various news outlets, I wouldn't take you for one who twists the statements of others for the purposes of drama. I never stated that ideas aren't stolen. Are you kidding me? It happens every day. I have friends that rank amongst the top paid screenwriters in town who refuse to pitch without the session being recorded for fear that their ideas will be passed on to a screenwriter who commands a lesser fee. Yep, it happens all the time. What I said was, as a creative, you should protect yourself as much as possible and then let your work go...That's it, that's all. Also, you mentioned in another post, which seems to have been deleted, that you can't imagine much programming goes into a social network. Man alive, is that wrong. The smallest social media sites employ dozens of coders. A company like FB employs over a thousand. We have one. And he's a workhorse. I appreciate you, Dan. I appreciate your participation. I respect you as an asset to the community. But, please, a little respect back. I'll now address the matter at hand. Let me start by saying, I completely understand the concern. Ultimately, over the course of all these posts, various readings and interpretations have become muddled. I just spoke again with our legal council to see if I could lend a little more clarity to the situation and provide you guys with a more thorough explanation of the wording in question. From our terms of service: "All Content On The Website Is Proprietary. All photographs, videos, music, sound recordings, Audiovisual Works, software, text, images, graphics, user interfaces, trademarks, logos, artwork and other Content, including but not limited to the design, selection, arrangement, and coordination of such Content on the Website is owned by the Company or its licensors and is protected by copyright, trade dress, and trademark laws, and other intellectual property laws." The above quote from our terms (emphasis added) simply states that all content on the site is owned by someone, and can't be used freely without the consent of the content owner. This covers everything form the parts of the website that we (the "Company") own and also content that you (our "licensors") own, and is simply there to put everyone on notice that they may not reuse anything on the site without permission of the owner. In the case of a sound recording you upload, this means they can't re-post it without your permission. That is the explanation. I hope this settles all concerns. If not, please remember, you are not required to post anything here on 32. You have full control. And, as always, I strongly urge all of you to take as much action as humanly possible to protect your work before releasing it into the ether. Thanks. RB

Richard, It's NOT the section: "All Content On The Website Is Proprietary..........is owned by the Company or its licensors and is protected by copyright, trade dress, and trademark laws, and other intellectual property laws." that I find the most disconcerting (and I certainly won't upload any music with out a vocal "preview" spoken over the track) It's THIS section that is more concerning: "You hereby grant to the Company and its Stage 32™ trademark licensor, a worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, sublicenseable and transferable license ("Content License") to copy, reproduce, distribute, transmit, disseminate, prepare derivative works of, display, and perform, and otherwise use, by any and all means now known or hereinafter invented, all of Your Content that You upload, submit, or otherwise provide to, Stage 32™ and/or Company, including without limitation, via submission to the Website or by any other means ("Licensed Rights")....... the rights to use Your Content, and derivative works thereof, in connection with the Service, the Website, and all other services and websites and in connection with the Company's and the Stage 32™ trademark licensor's (and their respective successors' and affiliates') business(es), including without limitation, for promoting and redistributing part or all of the Service and/or other Stage 32™ trademark licensor's licensees' respective services, in any and all media formats and through any and all media channels by any and all means now known or hereinafter invented;" AGAIN If I uploaded a 30 sec track (which I won't do) that you really liked, this actually says you could sublicense or transfer the license to anyone you do business with - successors' and affiliates' business(es), It's not even clear to me if this means you could actually license the content for MONEY to another entity. Oh well.........

Hmmm, here is a thought, now mind you it's just a thought. The internet is a weird place, unlike a radio/tv station where no one can change or comment on the broadcast. Here, it is possible for everyone to change the broadcasted page, or image of the page if you will. Your work as posted on this site is just part of said page it is not the whole thing. Having broadcasted the web page, and then given everyone in the world permission to change said page, you need permission to do so from everyone who has been a part of that page and everyone who wants to be a part of that page. By giving Stage 32 full permission over content you post you are giving, in a sense, everyone in the world permission to change the content of the page your work is a part of. Everyone also has the ability to post your work to other sites. This is a form of advertisement for you AND Stage 32. That is also part of giving full permission over posted content. Posting your content, and having others post your content and everyone else's content that is part of that page, it becomes a thick web of needed permission from tons of sources for each page each time it is changed and rebroadcasted. By giving them that blanketed full permission, any future changes to the content of that page, either here on earth, or in space, (hence the universe part), even places like the space station can get the internet, are here by covered so no lawsuits can be brought against Stage 32.

My brain hurts now...lol

I almost forgot, if you own a static web site that does not have the ability for the public to change the content, the kind of license agreement Scott used as an example would be just fine. A static web page that does not allow public content changes is more like a radio or tv station than a social networking site is.

That's good James....and if it was only in connection with the Stage32 website and the promotion of the S32 website, that would be fine. But technically, or rather, legally, that's NOT ALL of what it says. I'll be VERY exaggerated here to make a point. Let's say S32 became so big it was bought by say, Rupert Murdoch. And let's say that before that purchase you uploaded a kick-ass piece of music to S32 that got lots of listens and likes. Now your watching the FOX network (after Murdoch, in this imaginary scenario, had bought S32) and you hear your kick-ass piece of music in a FOX commercial or show. And no one ever paid you or got your permission....and it's even perhaps doubtful whether you would receive PRO back-end money. Would that be alright with you? Because this would all be legal and there's NOTHING you could do about it, because by uploading the track you've granted S32 this kind of license. I KNOW.....this scenario is extremely unlikely AGAIN When I do music for a film, the license I grant them is ONLY in connection with the film. They can't then take the piece of music and use it in their next film. This is not the case here. If the license we grant to S32 for our content was LIMITED to the the use and promotion of the S32 website only, then I'd have no qualms and would never of raised the issue. Whatever the outcome of all this, I think it's important for us to understand the CONTRACTS we enter into.

Yes that is true, BUT I look at it like this, social sites are kinda like walking behind a live news broadcast and showing off your best stuff behind the anchor. By putting yourself in that position you are giving them no choice but to have your permission to rebroadcast it anyway they want to. No matter how many times you see it on the news, they will owe nothing and can even share it with other stations without asking. It is the price of sharing with the public, on public domain. And just like the scenario that you posted, which is possible, if the station gets sold, that piece you shared with them live on the air now belongs to whoever bought it, but only that recording of it. However, it is binding to the content of the website, ", and coordination of such Content on the Website is owned by the Company or its licensors and is protected by copyright, trade dress, and trademark laws, and other intellectual property laws." You are the licensor, Stage 32 is the company, it is protecting both from my point of view. But I am no attorney and I certainly did not go to law school. :) I could be wrong.

Just to be clear, they don't own ones work/content one uploads, the Terms, as far as I understand, don't say that. You just granted them: "a worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, sublicenseable and transferable license ("Content License") to copy, reproduce, distribute, transmit, disseminate, prepare derivative works of, display, and perform, and otherwise use, by any and all means now known or hereinafter invented, all of Your Content that You upload, submit, or otherwise provide to, Stage 32™ and/or Company, including without limitation, via submission to the Website or by any other means..." And you grant them: "the rights to use Your Content, and derivative works thereof, in connection with the Service, the Website, and all other services and websites and in connection with the Company's and the Stage 32™ trademark licensor's (and their respective successors' and affiliates') business(es), including without limitation, for promoting and redistributing part or all of the Service and/or other Stage 32™ trademark licensor's licensees' respective services, in any and all media formats and through any and all media channels by any and all means now known or hereinafter invented;" You, the licensor, remain the owner of your Content. You just granted them a non-exclusive license.

I agree in principal, and also in the years of torture. I think in all of this I can see we are not even arguing the facts, we are agreeing. The argument, I was missing, isn't what's written lol. I guess the best way to avoid uncompensated use of your work would be to not post it. Or what a lot of people do is post small clips of work, not entire works. You could even make your own web site and just post links to it, then you would not have to worry. Of course you would have to pay for the web site domain name and storage space. I guess another way to look at it, if you want, it helps me keep positive in the face of my poverty. You are being compensated for the use of your work by use of Stage 32's web site, storage space and by not being charged to view everyone else's work.

UGC = User Generated Content