Cinematography : Canon c100, Canon c300 or Canon c500? by Darren E. Johnson

okay, honestly I would wait for the release of the Black Magic 4K. It's 3999 dollars. And if it does what they claim it will be a better deal than Canon.

(btw: I'm a Canon user)

oh and forget the C500 for that price go for a RED.

I would use Alexa before RED. Don't like all the DIT issues with the RED. Used them on commercials and it feels like there are only a handful of people who really know how to use them correctly.

in the end it will depend on the budget. Let's be honest, the camera is only a tool. But with the right guys it can look amazing.

And if the Black Magic is out by the time I shoot I will certainly investigate. Thanks for the heads up!

they say september. But you know how it goes.

That's why my rule is get the best PROVEN camera available at the time you shoot. Of course there always a ton of opinions about that too. Too many new devices coming out all the time. Can't really keep up and don't want to. Just want the best possible look for the best possible price. Ha

You have a number of options that can be quite good. First, at your budget point I am going to guess that you will probably post, finish, and deliver in 1920 x 1080 24p. Is that the case? Are you shooting your picture? Is your camera budget based on best for the picture or good for the picture and you own some part of the package at the end? Can you rent or do you have to buy? If you buy what are you going to do about a lens package, camera support, accessories, and monitoring? of the Canon cameras you mentioned, the C500 is head and shoulders above the others. It is in a completely different category. It makes very good images. Certainly one of the top performing cameras currently out there. Remember that it will have to be paired to a recorder, something like a Gemini can get the best performance from it. Some companies I would trust new gear on delivery, others not so much. Blackmagic is in the "wait a bit" category.

As a DP I very much relate to your primary focus - tell the story with the picture! Much of that picture is lighting and camera movement, and we all know that a camera can't light a scene for you. However that camera will effect speed on set and options in post. The tech talk does come with my territory, so I'll do my best with a non-tech-talk summary of the cameras you mentioned; When picking a camera first think about: 1) Think about the images or other movies you're referencing for this film- do you want a visual style that may imply drastic color correction? Desaturating the greens for a "Oh Brother Where Art Thou" vibe? Making a cold world where specific colors pop for a "Blade Runner" world? The deep saturation of "Do the Right Thing"? Color depth isn't just for effects! 2) Will the final product be sold to Netflix or Hulu? Shown on HBO or the Sundance channel? Alternatively will will it screen on cinema screens at festivals? Or; "don't know yet and want the most flexibility possible"? Final deliverables effect your shooting choices in terms of framing and light, but they also change the amount of data you need initially. So, here's the fast and dirty summary: C100 is a DSLR with sharper details and no over-heating. It's suited for blue-ray, tv and Internet distributed projects. It requires more environmental control (due to limited latitude). Your DP will need to spend time compensating on set. It is a great doc and interview camera. It is not a cinema camera. C300 is a robust camera that will get the job done, it will handle skin color well and can be projected on a big screen. You will have enough data as long as you don't want to manipulate anything stylistically, or bump-in to make a medium into a close, etc. It allows some slow motion shooting, but your post options for color/contrast are very limited. C500 will allow you greater flexibility. That will mean faster work on set with a more professional looking final product. The files are less compressed, which means that the HD of the C500 is a better quality then the HD of the C100. It allows you to shoot HD, 2k or 4k, but keep in mind that you still need to rent an external recorder to record the 4k image to. There is 120 slow motion- for all of those pencil drops, fist fights and love-at-first-sight-slow-mo moments. It records top quality color and handles the compression of that color well. What you're paying for in the price difference between these cameras are speed on set and options in post. Not knowing your circumstance I'd say that options are power, the C500 gives you all the options, and C300 is a decent alternative, but only you can decide how best to get the money on the screen.

Just to clarify a point, the C100 is most certainly not a DSLR nor a derivative of them. The sensor is possibly the same as both the C300 and the C500, although I would guess that those sensors that test the best are used in the C500, the next best group in the C300, etc. This sensor is unlike the DSLR sensor in that it does not drop rows and columns of photosites and lessen the amount of data being processed and recorded in order to arrive at an HD output . There are very significant differences in the image recorded by these cameras and DSLRs when shooting moving images.

Thanks so much for all the fantastic input! Very much appreciated! If anyone of you easier ever needs Producer related help please get in touch.

Why are you buying a camera?! Spending $27000 on a pseudo 4k body without glass for probably a 20 day production is insane. You can rent an Epic or Alexa with awesome glass or hire an owner operator for cheaper.

Great question. And I get your point. The answer is I'm shooting three to five projects with it and a ton of side gigs. Rental/additional crew numbers on all these digi cameras sucked even with owner/ops. Might as well shoot film with all the excess on-set DIT/post-pro costs. Each project is shooting about 30-35 days. Once I'm into the second project the camera is paid for and a non issue from there on out. And we shoot when we want. Rented a ton of equipment over the years. The math always looks good on paper initially. Then this thing happens, and that thing happens and the original numbers go out the window. My work over the next couple of years will more than cover the cost of this item. I could also rent it out when I'm not using it. Trust me, I always do the math. I still think like a line producer even though I'm directing now. Old habits die hard.

Pseudo 4K?

Doing the math is really important but you also have to do the art. Art comes first. Always. The problem with owning a camera and using it on all of your projects is that it may not be the best choice for each individual project. Cameras & lenses are critical choices to be made by the DP for the project not a choice made by the producer. Usually I have 2 bodies on shoots as a minimum. Even if you are shooting strictly with one camera, which is pretty rare, things can happen. Plus there is second unit. Waiting around with everyone on the clock while a replacement body is being rocketed in is pretty devastating during a shoot. It doesn't make anyone happy and empties the craft services table. One of the issues worth mentioning is that you will be looking for a DP for a picture to be "shot on XXXX camera". The first question you will be asked by anyone you might wish to work with had better be "what if I think that is not the best camera for this picture"? Your approach is certainly quite sensible from your expressed considerations if you are certain of the future productions.

I don't know, what the camera is actually going to be used for if your are not looking into strictly documentaries I would suggest to look more deeply into the fs700, it's a way more versatile camera, it might be harder to get into than the c series which I truly believe are 'straight out of the box cameras' but overall, I think it's more of an 'every' production camera and can be built up to do more such as 4k but I do understand that some people are not fans, even me not being the biggest but for the price it's thing to consider coming from a c100 owner

@Andrew, C500 does not record 4k, only 1080p. It has an impressively sharp 4k sensor. However, a c500 will require a 4k recorder(5-15k) in addition to the glass and rigging gear. Also Canon raw has iso and gain settings baked in, so it could be called pseudo raw too. @Darren, if I had multiple projects I would consider buying as well. However, I still wouldn't spend $27k on a canon body + $5-15k on a 4k recorder + $5-20-100k on glass + rigging gear. For $27k you can get a scarlet and glass with built in real raw recording. Plus you can rent an epic for a dual or triple camera shoot for your bigger productions. I don't see how post pro and DIT costs would be any higher with any of the cameras (red, canon, etc). They all need something.

"Raw" is merely minimally processed data from the sensor. I do not think there is an actual standard defining it. Since the information from the actual sensor is analog, all digital raw recordings are processed. The Canon C500 is the only camera that I can think of that outputs an uncompressed 4K raw signal. Baking in the gain and white balance allows Canon to maintain the same latitude as the ISO is increased. Nothing "pseudo" about it at all, arguably the opposite since others use varying degrees of compression, some quite high ratios, when recording the signal after the signal processing. Canon chose a pathway that makes very nice pictures. and those pictures are how cameras should be evaluated. Yes it needs a separate recorder to do the 4K. RED Scarlet is an option? Ahhhh, now I understand. The Canon C500 is a better choice than the RED Scarlet in terms of sensitivity, noise, usable latitude, colour gamut, color reproduction and skintone.