Screenwriting : Is a child's death too unsatifying for an audience? by Nikki April Lee

I would also have a problem with someone who makes such bad decisions, getting her second chance by having another baby. It might read more true and more satisfactory if she has to deal with the consequences of her actions, and just leave it at that. If you want her to experience redemption, have her help someone else and trying to heal that way.

I like it. not many movies i've seen have that kind of story or mood. The only one I saw would be My sister's keeper. Which is based on a book

I also agree with Mark.... why not let her help another lass in the same situation, her lesson learned passed on to save another.....

Seems like the daughter was the one who suffered the consequences of her mothers actions. That is sad in itself. I would find another lass in a similar situation with a daughter... have Raven save them both... That would then be, a small consolation to Raven, that she had saved another child from the same fate in helping her mother to escape the same lifestyle....

I agree with the above. Sounds like you may have told the story about the mother, had the audience root for her, but then threw it all away by killing off the baby. If you write about the mother, make the ending about the mother. Good luck, Tom

Film makers likes to tell a story that has been told over and over because its been tried and tested and it sells, NO storyline is good or bad its how it is told by the director and the cast because it all comes down to directing and acting. How many times have heard bid name actors turning down scripts only for the film to become a blockburster some even become classics, read the scripts of oscar winning films most of them are rubbish but the director and the cast makes them work. If you believe in your storyline stick with it.

It depends on the purpose of the child's death within the story. If the child's death serves the function of fulfilling the premise of the story then perhaps it may be a bit too fatalistic. However, if the death galvanizes living characters to action, then it serves a different function and the death itself may be infused with redeeming functions.

I think the truth about the life you are writing about is hard for some people to understand , because they just don't know much, about the dangers of the kind of life you are writing about . Death is a part of all our lifes, and it comes no matter what the age, and that is the truth ! don't be so concerned about what someone reading you thinks, is unsatisfying. if it feels right to you ? it will feel right to the people who follow you, in your writings.keep putting your heart in to it, and don't second guess yourself, purpose as a lot to do with what ever you write just keep on keeping on ! !...........................................

This is a tricky area. It all comes down to the individual storyline and the circumstances of the death and the repercussions caused by it. If it's germane to your plot - and from the bare bones you've outlined here - it sounds as if it is (your protaganist is warned about consequences and goes ahead anyway and it results in her child's death. That's some serious stuff - whether or not you try to give her a 2nd chance later on - in the form of another child - is not really the issue - and may even undercut the drama of the story you're telling.) An audience - in my opinion - will accept anything as long as the story is a good one and well told. That being said - there is also a segment of that audience that will not accept some things - no matter what - and will find them off putting. When someone is paying money to see a movie - they have to want to see it - for whatever reasons - they like the star - they've read raves by the critics - good word of mouth from friends. But if certain subject matter turns them off - there's no changing their minds. Hitchcock once had a young child unknowingly carry a bomb onto a city bus. It was supposed to be delivered and kill people at the delivery site. The bus was delayed in traffic and the bomb explodes prematurely - killing the boy. He later regretted this - feeling that what he wanted was the suspense of the ticking bomb - but not the payoff of the actual explosion - and certainly not the inadvertent death of an innocent child. He was convinced that that scene lost him a large segment of his audience. Personally - I have a script I wrote some years ago - that is probably the best I've ever done - and I have the reviews and coverage to back me up - that deals - as a pivotal plot point - based on a real incident - with the death of a young girl. She is in fact - the mystery of the piece - and her identity makes all the wheels turn. Quite early on when the script went out - a husband and wife producer team read it - and loved the writing - but said the idea of the dead child was so upsetting to them - that they couldn't go forward with making the film. It had nothing to do with the quality of the writing - or the story - all of which they loved. But the dead child unnerved them. I thanked them for the read - but since that was the starting point and the central theme and driving force of all that came afterwards - clearly there was no change to be made and they were not the ideal partners on the project. In your case - it seems that you have wiggle room as to whether the child dies or not. Your call. If it works for the story (and it seems to from what you've said) - leave it alone. Every film doesn't have a happy ending and most have degrees of what qualifies as "happiness" given the parameters of the plot. If you run into too many naysayers on your particular script - and most dwell on the child's death - and NOT as a misdirected plot idea or poor writing - than maybe you need to consider making a change. But as your question was "Is a child's death too unsatisfying for an audience?" - the answer is no. As I started out - it's a matter of the story and the plot and the necessity of your choices. But in and of itself - I'd say you could be on shaky ground because of the feelings that a child's death engenders in general - but I would certainly never steer clear 100% of the time. Hope this helps.

Death is such a strong subject, even more so when it comes to a child. For the last 10 years now I've been volunteering with a support group for the loss of children. I have a lot of knowledge in this area. If I could be of any help to you. Maybe adding emotion or some bit of knowledge. Please let me know. Best of luck to you.

As Edward said, I think it depends on the ways in which the death of a child will propel the story. Pan's Labyrinth comes to mind... Think of the great twist or reveal that that death served to open up to the audience and the way it relates to the rest of the film, etc etc. That was really powerful, imo

Hi, Nikki. First congrats on finishing your story (screenplay)! That in itself is a great and rewarding endeavor. Since I haven't read your screenplay, seems like you want the character's arch to strike right at the end. (Her child's death brings about change). it all really depends on your execution at this plot point of the story. Does she discovers she's pregnant after the events of the child's death...while she's in the hospital? Is there some sort of epiphanic moment she realizes her actions led up to this consequence and redemption. I'm curious to read the ending. Maybe it's just your execution isn't set up properly. As you know, for your script to be "Hollywood ready" it must follow the tried and true formulaic process. Otherwise, just go the indie route...where rules can be broken. ps. to your title question, is a child's death to unsatisfying to an audience?" Yes and no. It's all about execution, execution, execution. Humans are innately hardwired for drama and story. We feel sympathetic if there's remorse. We hate if there's injustice. Appalled at ignorance and arrogance. Cringed at horror and violence. Cry at happiness and sadness. Invoke those and your story's ending will soar. God bless.

It is difficult not having read your script, but it sounds like the reader was invested in the story of the mother and her child, which is a good thing. It may have been a letdown to have that child's existence kind of disregarded by the addition of a new child at the end. You may see the new child as symbolizing the hope of the main character to change, but the reader doesn't see any of this because it would take place after the movie ends. Besides, who is to know if the mother just relapses anyway? My suggestion would be to not have her pregnant again at the end, unless you want to make a serious statement about her not breaking the cycle, which, from what I gather, is not what you intend. Having the daughter die is your decision and if it feels right to you, then go for it, but I wouldn't cut it short for dramatic impact. The other option may be for the main character to prove her worth again as the mother through the system and be allowed custody of her again from the child welfare. Again, I don't know all the circumstance of the plot. It would also help to know how old the daughter is, too. Anyway, keep writing. It sounds like it has a lot of potential.

Yeah it's abit difficult to have the discussion without telling the whole story. Right now the script is only 88 pages long. I sent it for story notes to get some sort of REAL feedback and direction so I will know what else to add to the story. I agreed with just about everything they said were wrong with the script but this one stood out. In my opinion, as hard as it is to see the death of a child, one needs to understand that this is what happens in real life. In reality children die due to things such as murder, abuse, neglect, human trafficking, ect. I don't like things to be sugar-coated but, because it is such a sensitive thing to deal with I suppose I could find alternative ways to portray the same message.

Another point I wanted to make was, one of the themes in the script is "every action has a consequence." All the main and supporting characters make decisions that end up with big consequences Raven refuses to listen to anyone's advice in the script including my second main character David who is not only the father of Raven's child, but he's a cop. Of course as a cop he knows the consequences of Raven's lifestyle but Raven doesn't listen. I figured that her child's death would be that big wake up call for her to finally realize that her lifestyle will eventually destroy everything that she cares most about. Bringing in a second child wasn't just some replacement or fix up. The second child represents her getting a second chance to get it right. Raven made bad decisions, she's human, it's expected. I figure if the reader/audience see her changed at the end of the script, they realize it was worth her getting a do-over.

I think the damage is done when Raven refuses to take notice of the advice in regards to getting out of that life style. Being warned, and being aware of the consequences... yet she continued to stay knowing.... That cost her the life of her child. For a mother, nothing could replace that child, especially if you, yourself... blamed yourself for the happening. I know people are human, and folk make bad choices in life. But, when you are responsible for a child, and friends try to warn you of what could happen if you don't change....especially a boyfriend who is a cop! And you refuse to take notice knowing.... Having another child would not gain sympathy... The reflection is already there, that the mother was irresponsible... Have her save another child from the same fate... that way you show, she has learned a lesson due to her own loss. She could go on to make it her mission to save others from the same fate. Just a thought.

Good point Janet. Several others suggested the same thing to show her help someone else with their child. Something to think about .

Stay true to yourself. Long Beach U told Spielberg he would not do a thing. If you can please 50% that is pretty good. it is good that you second guess yourself that means you are always willing to improve, learn and apply. However don't change something because one person does not like it. Consider their ideas and apply them accordingly. IMO

You are the writer, so you ultimately have to decide how your narrative ends. If the feedback is the result of personal taste, and you have ensured that the ending completes the character arc, and is fitting for the story world you have created then you should go ahead with that ending. It seems you are concerned that the narrative will not be produced because the ending will not fare well with audiences (this too is a valid point and can at times put executives off a project) 'because audiences do not want to leave the cinema feeling sad'. You have to decide if the integrity of the piece you are writing will withstand a happy ending just to please audience goers. It is a tough decision, we as, artists have to make. Why don't you play about with various endings and see which one is most fitting to your character and the tone of the piece you have written? Good luck with it and I hope my comments are helpful!

Yes, you are the writer and the ultimate decision of story path is with you. But part of being a writer, and getting better, is receiving feedback and thinking about what you're hearing. After thoughtful evaluation where you've put your pride aside, its time to consider what criticism is valid and will result in revisions, and what criticism you will ignore, because either it isn't valid, or the critic doesn't understand your story. Good luck.

As for writing for an audience or writing for yourself, we all write for ourselves and hope the story will ring true and resonate with a wide audience. If you try to write to what you think others will enjoy, you're doomed to fail. It's like trying to write to the hot trend in Hollywood. By the time you can get it written, it's no longer the hot trend and has gone passe. Best just to follow your passion and hope what you've written winds up setting a trend.

Everyone has great points here. But like I said earlier, most Hollywood Reps will tell you, write what is in because the fear of financing or green lighting a great script to film that is not "commercial" is way too risky. In other words, For Nikki to appease (I would get more feedback first...hire an in the mix - serious Rep to read the ending...yes, it will cost) might have to write the death scene that fits the "mode" of other "commercial successes". Now there are cable markets that would take the chance in a heartbeat, not Hollywood. But, lf her voice shines in her writings, it doesn't matter anyway, they'll be clamoring to hire her for other writing projects ...then later she would have more clout to maybe even self produce her ideas.

It depends entirely upon the way the script has been written, but my gut feeling is that it's a structure issue - look at the positionings of the death and the redemption. While some criticisms may seem wrong, they usually indicate a different problem from the one they mention directly.

I write to entertain aswell. It's a great way to write to me. Let's be honest when an agent or producer reads a script they aren't looking for some masterpiece (okay maybe they are) but they are looking for material that will entertain (and possibly educate) a large audience. I don't think many people in the audience for Titanic cares much about the historical side of the ship. They just wanted to know who important would survive on a sinking ship carrying thousands of people alone in the middle of an icy ocean. I'll be honest, that's why I wanted to see it. I can read about the history of it later. LoL. @DD Tell me more about these "cable markets." Are those the markets that produce movies built for just tv like Lifetime or The CW?

Nikki - this post is veering a bit off course from your original question - but it's all good. Two quick points - DD Myles reply said to "write what's 'in'". Bad advice. First of all - there is such a long lead time between a screenplay selling (if ever) and it going into production - and being released. An infinitessimally small amount of movies are green lit and fast tracked - and even then you're probably talking 6 months from sale to screen - contingent on actors availabilty, open release dates, studio schedule - a ton of things. It is virtually impossible to anticipate the marketplace years ahead of time - so don't bother. Also - what's "in" may be hot for the moment - like vampires - and burn out quickly (like board games turned into movies or 3D) - and by the time your movie gets made - it's out. Also - an agent/producer is looking for a fresh voice - not someone who copycats what they're seen before and thinks will be popular. It shows a critical lack of imagination. I'm not saying you can't put a fresh spin on an old subject - but it won't seem all that fresh if it reads like something that's playing at the multiplex down the street. And secondly - unless you're making a documentary - no agent or producer is looking to "educate" anybody. If your story provides for some historical insight while simultaneously entertaining and telling a gripping story - fine. Spielberg almost couldn't get LINCOLN made - with HIS track record. So forget education. Sam Goldwyn once famously said, "If I want to send a message - I call Western Union".

Forgot - your Titanic comment made my case for me. Cameron did a brilliant thing there - which was to use a fairly well known and tragic historical event as the spine of his movie - and overlay it with fictional characters as passengers on board the doomed ship, intermingled with real people who were on the maiden voyage. If you were so inclined - you could read books on the subject (I have) and know who died. But in inventing this love story and casting Leonardo DiCaprio (the reason a niece of mine saw the movie 15X) - and NOT knowing how their fictional story would end up - you had a spectacular mix. And the incredible special FX didn't hurt. that was lightning in a bottle.

Good point Michael! To steer me back on topic, I was thinking about something a couple of the members said about having the child taken by Child Protective Services. In Tyler Perry's film Good Deeds the most dramatic part of the film to me was when CPS took the child away from her mom. I bawled my eyes out. I felt she lost everything without her daughter especially since the story was about her and her daughter falling on hard times and her daughter was all she had in the world. As dramatic as I'd like to be with the story. I think an alternative would do just as much good eager than sacrificing an innocent life and bringing on some sort of weak redemption. I just need to start over so I won't get lost inbetween

do what you want, who cares whats in, if you like your story and ending stick with it, when people see the film they will remember it because its different, and the most important thing, if you don't like your script and no one else likes it then you'll hate yourself, but if you like it and nobody else does well, 1 person in the world likes it and its more than enough. and no its not to much of a consequence, people dont like to feel sad, its a story and shit happens

Yes , my dear Nikki, the cable market is a sellers market right now as we speak. Ideas that ABC, NBC, CBS would never touch are selling in the independent markets. FOX lost 21% of their viewership this season, you ask why? Well, the public is tired of the same rehashed formulaic programming and cable networks are happily ($$$) filling the void. With the rise of cable companies, the need for "content" has exploded. Ask yourself, would a show like "Sleepy Hollow" at FOX have ever saw the light of day before now ..no way! There's a huge market of independent cable companies like Netflix, Amazon, AMC, Lifetime, Hallmark, and IFC,to name a few that are looking for edgy, uncompromising, original material. Another that might Interest you is ASPiRE, owned by Magic Johnson and Comcast. Also, IMHHO, I would love to see you write this highly emotional premise into a short story with the other incredible ideas you have. I sense a strong, beautiful author just waiting to be discovered in you. You have very powerful, character driven stories. Imagine your readership topping 5,000/10,000 strong...hmm getting that screenplay written now doesn't sound as daunting does it.(or produced). As Gary Shusett once so eloquently said, "Writing and rewriting a screenplay is like saying "I Love You" in 100 different ways, each time better than the last.:) God bless.

Well done Nikki, that sounds like a great idea.... have the welfare remove the child. That can be heart wrenching in itself. At least, she can be re-united with her daughter at a later stage.

@Janet I agree. I will admit though I feel its a bit cliche because it seem people always tend to take that route. But on the other hand it makes a win-win for the audience, and the characters. @DD Myles what a great ending to this discussion. My eyes are sparkling. I'm ready for anything. I'm intend on researching these cable markets. My professor advised us to start small like local tv stations or magazines with our writings instead of trying to shoot straight to the top. I've already written a couple of commercials for Lowe's. Since I work there I thought it would be a great start and and a plus in my resume.

Hi Nikki There are a variety of options open to you, you're a writer. Just make sure that you are happy with the ending, and that it fits with the character, the tone and the genre of the piece. If the feedback was just down to one individuals personal taste then you can disregard it. If you have a number of people who have read the narrative telling you this ending is not working, then you may wish to reconsider. You will kick yourself if your project gets made, you change the ending and all the viewers hate it and thought you copped out. This is one of the reasons why you should never write just to please people ( I am not saying you are). All the best with it. It sounds like you are doing all the right things and will come to the right choice.

Sounds like it has the making of a great movie.... go for it lass....

I just like happy endings.... sighs

Just read again... I see Raven ATTEMPTS to get them out of that situation..... and the child is killed before SHE CAN ESCAPE it... that changes it a little in regards to her having ANOTHER CHILD. She TRIED to get out, but, too late.... I was thinking... what if.... the child is taken.... disappears without trace... Raven presumes she must be dead.... was it pay back for something? When she moves on, maybe she finds herself in another abusive situation... maybe raped by the abusive partner... she has another child. As the years go bye... Raven feels the remorse....But,. the first child somehow finds her way back to her mother.... Just a thought.... I really love your idea, and feel it... just reading about Raven makes you feel the emotion of the situation.... Would be nice to see Raven come out the winner in the end, against all odds..... regardless of what folk around her thought.

Or, the child died of natural causes... Raven blames herself... But, in truth she is not to blame...Getting pregnant to an abuser see's her having another baby.. Her remorse for having another child, is great.... feeling responsible for the death of the other. But, as time goes bye something comes up, to make her realise, that her child died of a natural cause, not due to her own feeling of neglect. I really LIKE your story lols... If I am sticky beaking, tell me to waddle onwards....