Hello folks! I posted this to the Filmmakers lounge, but I guess it must have been the wrong place. I'd love to hear what you guys think about this. I've just completed another pitch - this time to a US distributor. My show is aimed at 8 to 10 year-olds and is a CG sci-fi action adventure with no human characters. The very nice lady I spoke to gave me some advice at the end (which, I think, means they're not going to take my project on). We were right at the end of the time, and I didn't like to interrupt her to ask for clarification, but I now wish I had. She gave me two things to think about: This first one has me really puzzled: "Don't make it too dark". I opened the pitch with a little animated promo which didn't seem dark to me at all. It features space races, interplanetary pirates, a time portal and a "really scary monster" (that you don't see). If it's OK to post it, the video is here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqiZgo1UThs. If not, please ignore... I mentioned that I would like to go for a J. J. Abrams style of direction (which, to be honest, in this case has a lot to do with shaky cameras, moody lighting and lens flares - sorry J. J., I know there's a lot more to it than that!). I'm based in the UK, and we have "Dr. Who" here which has a huge following, and it's very popular among 8-year-old boys. I'd say it's a fair bit darker than what I'm aiming at. There is a children's BBC spin-off called "The Sarah Jane Adventures" that is lighter, but still fairly scary. How do these fare in the US with the children's audience? Also, I would have said that the cartoon series of "Batman" is pretty dark too, but that's been very successful for ever. And there have been cartoon series featuring mummified baddies with skull-like faces, which seem pretty grim to me. So my question is "how dark is too dark?" Does anyone have any examples of what might be "dark enough"? Or anything that goes a bit too far for the 8 to 10-year range? Secondly, make sure I get actors who are known in the US if I want to get US distribution. This, I kind-of knew anyway. I mentioned that I'm currently going after an English actor for the lead, who has just finished shooting a film for Disney. I had assumed that being one of the leads in a Disney film would be enough, but it appears I'm mistaken. If I can get this guy, I'd like to try for Ray Winstone to play his father (wishful thinking, but you never know…). Does anyone think having Ray Winstone on board would be enough, or should I be looking for known American voices. If so, who would be appropriate to play a selfish and frustrated late teen? What if I went for American voices and could get, say, Kevin Spacey for the father? Lots of food for thought here, but I'm sure there are some experienced writers, directors and producers on Stage 32 who will have some knowledge to impart to those of us who are still on our way. I'd be ever so grateful for some advice.
Anything Goes : A couple of questions I wished I could have asked the exec I was pitching to... by Julian Tewkesbury
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I watched it, great stuff. One thing that jumped out at me was the partying and work at the ranch. What does that have to do with a 10 year old? Maybe that is the dark part? Whereas the lessons of "esop fables' type would be best presented as a game plan. In other words make your trailer is more about Fun and Adventure and save life's lessons when asked your direction of the show. Remember you plugging for 10 year olds and presenting to adults. (Well I use adult loosely of course) How about that Planet of the Apes garb though.... What are you using for software BTW?
That... was... awesome!!! I know my 7 year old nephew would love that. He watches a show called Dragons: Riders of Berk (based on the movie How to Train Your Dragon). What you have is in no way darker or scarier than that. I was ready for more of what you presented here. I can only guess, but I'm thinking the exec genuinely liked it and wanted to help. I took as she was saying, "This is good, here's some helpful advice to keep it good." I can't imagine she saw anything dark or that hinged on going dark. I hope you hear back from the exec (and maybe you will? Who knows, lots of surprises in this business) or find the right person who is truly passionate about this. It really did look great!
Hi Simon, Thank you. I see your point about the angle of the promo. It was actually made as a pitch to adults to get some development funding, and not intended to sell the show to children. I only used it as a means of presenting something of the look of the series. The current plan is to make either a short pilot, or a proper trailer for the programme. Strangely, the pilot would be easier, because a trailer would require a huge amount more modelling and character design/rigging/texturing etc. Part of me was hoping to line up some serious voice talent for it, but I'm not sure that's going to happen - yet. I hadn't thought about the Planet of the Apes look. I was basing my costumes loosely on Indian outfits (East India, not Native American), because I wanted to get away from the pseudo-medieval look that so many sci-fi/fantasy movies use. I'll have to look again at POTA : ) I'm using Autodesk Maya, by the way, and rendering in RenderMan. Incidentally, your post to my other thread mentioned Patrick Stewart for Dad. I hadn't thought of him, although he certainly would carry the weight, both vocally and in "star power". The guy I'm looking at to play the young son doesn't speak as well as Sir Patrick - he has a bit of a London accent. But then, if they can get away with having adults with Scottish accents and children with American accents in "How to Train Your Dragon", it shouldn't be that much of a problem. I'll look into it. Thank you. I'm also interested that you talk about 10 - 14 year-olds rather than the 8 - 10 year-olds that I had in mind. Having seen the promo, do you think that older age group would be held by this show? Maybe that's a difference between the US and the UK. By the time kids hit 12 here, they're into all the soaps. Thank you for your input. It's great food for thought.
Hi Melissa, I answered your comment before, but something odd happened, and now my answer has disappeared. I just wanted to thank you for your very encouraging comment. Interestingly, I told the exec that my show was a bit like "How to Train your Dragon", and I'm also in discussion with a company who made some of the "Dragons: Riders of Berk" episodes with a view to possible co-production. I certainly hope your take on the exec's remarks is more accurate than mine! Certainly getting someone on board who is as passionate about this show as I am would make all the difference. I'm planning either to make a short pilot or a proper trailer for the series as my next step. I'll let everyone know if there is any movement. Thank you again.
I actually watched the clip again, after I posted the comment, because I was so intrigued. I'm really wishing you the best with it, I see tons of potential here!
Julian, I used the ages by accident. I am sure all the way to 4 would enjoy it. I guess we are in agreement on the trailer as you are making it presentable to the adults and that MAY have been what the person eluded to in reference to being dark? I can only guess as you have about it. You certainly have talent and that Maya seems to be working well for you. I have just ventured into Blender this month. So I really appreciate the art you do. Again I think you are spot on by creating an episode or Pilot that is the actual show and how you are going to incorporate the good message, Like Dora the Explorer does... Keeping it light, fun and adventurous. You might even try to interlace two stories into one. Where you have the lighter little stuff action story line appeal to one age group and another over their head to appeal to an older group. Like the Simpsons do? I dunno just ideas for you....
Hi Melissa, It's really kind of you to say that. I think it's got a lot going for it. We just need someone with the money and contacts to get it in the way you do! That's always the catch, but we never stop trying, do we?
Hi Simon, I see. I think it might be a bit scary for some younger ones. My six-year-old daughter finds even the promo scary - but then she couldn't cope with the Tinkerbell movie we went to see at the cinema. Thank you for your kind compliments too. I'm trying to use my gifts to their best. I've seen some amazing stuff done in Blender on YouTube (you can actually search for "Blender"!). I've never used it, so I don't know what it's like to work with. There's always a learning curve… I absolutely agree with you about keeping it fun and exciting. There's going to be quite a lot of banter between the hero and his best friend as well, which should help to keep things light. Maybe the underlying moral of each story is the part that the older ones will get? I'm just in the process of re-rigging the main character to make him more versatile. Once that's done I can get started on the next stage. Thank you for your ideas. It's all going into the pot, and we'll see what comes out.
Maybe she just meant the lighting was dark, e.g. all the backgrounds are black. Many kids films are a bit brighter. Nice work.
Thank you Chad. I'm not sure about that. A lot of the backgrounds in the Batman cartoons are pretty dark, as they are in Scooby Doo. I hope you're mistaken, because I like my moody lighting : ) A lot of kids' shows are brighter, but they lack atmosphere, don't you think?
I get where you're coming from; I was merely trying to imagine what her reasoning may have been. Is she on Stage 32? Can you follow up with her? Is that allowed in the etiquette of these pitch-fests? Best of luck to you!
Hi Julian, this looks like it's going to be a lot of fun. I don't necessarily think it seems "dark", but maybe seems a little sullen? I know you mentioned it was to pitch to adults, but I think a peppier sounding voice could help the character. Also, I think it's a good idea to make the pilot vs another promo, that way they can get a better idea of what the episodes will look like.
Hi Chad, I hope I didn't come across as being dismissive. It certainly wasn't my intention. I'm very grateful for all the thoughts everyone is putting in. They're all being stored away and will come together to make something really good. I think the etiquette of the pitchfests is that you get your 8 minutes and that's it. I can understand that: these are seriously busy people, and I think it's actually very good of them to do these things. It would have been so good to have had that extra minute to ask her to clarify. Ho hum. Thanks again, and the best to you too : )
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Hi Megen, Thank you. I certainly hope it's going to be fun - it's part of the plan. The not-so-great voice is because I'm not really an actor (yes, it's me…). I'm going to get someone much more expressive for the pilot/trailer. I see your point about pilot vs trailer. A pilot would definitely show what the programmes are going to be like - script, visuals, timing, music. The question is whether busy execs would want to sit in front of it for 10-15 minutes (all I could probably afford to do at this stage) when they could see a trailer lasting a couple of minutes and maybe ask to see a script afterwards. There's a whole new thread there. I've heard opinions both ways. Anyone out there with experience as an exec who could give us a definitive answer to that question? Thank you again. It's all going into the blender...
Hey Julian have you tried entering this into some contests? I'm not sure how that works with promos vs. full episodes, but perhaps there's a way to use that to your advantage. There's also a discussion going somewhere else ons stage32 about Amazon studios. I clicked over, feeing curious, and saw they do a lot with children's programming.
Hi Melissa, I haven't tried entering competitions with this project, because it's not a proper trailer. I'll have to see what I can get made this time round before I go that route. There is a thing called the Trailer Fest which I entered an earlier project into. Didn't get anywhere that time, but it's always worth another look. I hadn't looked at Amazon until you mentioned it. It wouldn't be my first choice because it looks as though they more-or-less take over the whole thing. What I really want is someone to fund the making of it and help with distribution. Maybe I'm being a bit naive? Thank you very much for thinking of me. I'm currently wondering whether to go for another pitch this weekend. Robert Zemeckis's Company is on the list, and with titles like "Polar Express" under their belt, they would be more in line with the kind of thing I'm trying to do. The only question is, again, would they want to take it over? Only got a few hours to decide...
I see exactly why you mean Julian, it's your project and you have a vision for it. I've read a few biographies from people who've accomplished their dreams and what always amazes me is the audacity they have to say, "This is what I want and this is how it's going to happen." So I'd say hold onto your vision, it may seem naive now but that's where everyone great had to once start. I can see why you'd want to go with Robert Zemeckis's company, the Polar Express does have a similar tone and color range as what you did. Whatever you decide I'm rooting for you!
Hi Melissa, Thank you. I really appreciate your encouragement.
Very Nice!
Thank you!
I say, don't change anything! It's perfect just the way it is! Did you pitch your idea to Radical Media? If not, I recommend that you do! Best of luck!
Hi Mary, Thank you very much. I'm very encouraged by all the positive comments. I'm pitching again this afternoon (tonight, to me, here in the UK). Thank you for the suggestion about Radical Media. I just Googled them and it looks as though they mostly specialise in live action, music videos and ads. Am I missing something, or have I got the wrong Radical Media?
Hi Julian, this might come too late but even as a child, i wanted to see "dark" animation. Treat children like adults and children will want to see your work. Do you know of Jonny Quest from the 1960's? - machine guns, nazis, monsters, giant robot spiders, flame throwers, spys, evil scientists. It was a GREAT show. Have you seen Reboot (1990's) last season was the best and very dark. Children do not want to watch cartoons with made up, lame conflict. (That's what parents want their children to watch.) Bugs Bunny was HUNTED and it was funny. Keep your show how you want it. Try Kickstarter or Indie Go Go if the established money denies you.
Hi Cliff, Never too late! I loved the original Jonny Quest. They had an electrical monster that really scared me (I still remember it). And I remember the robot spider too - very cool, especially the way its legs came out of the top and unfolded : ) I absolutely agree with you, and so do some of the true greats - the witch in Snow White is a prime example. Kids love a good scare. And there is way too much stuff out there that's really condescending towards kids. It's interesting that you mention the parents' attitude, though, because the lady I pitched to was thinking about parents buying DVDs for their children. I guess that's our problem: parents generally do the buying. What I really want is to get this show broadcast. That builds a much better market, and I think it's true that if the children really love it, the parents will probably buy it. And the message of the shows is always positive, so parents shouldn't have anything to worry about. I have to confess that I've tried Indiegogo already, and didn't get a single bite. I must have been doing something wrong. At the time I did it, Kickstarter was US only. I think it's gone global now, so I'll look at it again. Thank you so much for your thoughts. As with everyone else's comments, they'll go into the mix. So far the consensus seems to be "Keep doing what you're doing", which is very encouraging. I did another pitch last night and got requested, so we'll wait and see where that goes.
Cliff you make an excellent point and you got me thinking about what I watched as a kid. My favorite cartoon was the Beetlejuice Cartoon, mostly because it was creepy! It was so odd and it fascinated me. And then there was the wildly popular Ren & Stimpy which was hardly something I'd expect parents to approve of. And now as an adult I watch Courage the Cowardly Dog with my niece and nephew. That one's pretty out there too and stylistically (and even sometimes story wise) on the darker side. It's one of my favorites. I'm glad to hear you've taken the message to keep doing what you're doing Julian, there are so many successful cartoons that aren't always in the mold of what you'd expect, but they succeed because somebody had passion and believed in them.
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Thanks for sharing this valuable information
Did you pitch your idea to Radical Media? I don't work for the company but, I worked on one of their commercials back in 2004. You can Google them or call the company directly. Here's the # 310-664-4500 Good luck! =)