Screenwriting : The Ultimate Goal of Screenwriting by Thomas George Mazzola

I agree that story is first and foremost. But if you can tell the story in a way that has visual impact, you can set yourself and your story apart.

To me the ultimate goal of a screenwriter is to satisfy the needs of the person paying for your talent, skill and experience.

D Marcus, that's a very sellout, whorish way to put it, but I understand that business is cut throat, so I can't fault it, only to say it's sad.

It's not whorish. It's collaboration. That's what screenwriting is, unless you're going to film it with your computer's webcam and spend zero production value on it.

Meet Polish starlets (or stars). Screenwriting is writing for the screen. If your are not writing for the screen, there are plenty of other mediums out there to write for. It is also a team sport, you are not writing alone for yourself, you are part of a group of people who are making a movie... and have to be part of that team (or you get fired and they bring in someone else).

If by "whorish" you mean someone who works for money doing something some find immoral then you are wrong about my point. If selling out is earning a living writing then you are accurate. If being a working writer who producers know they can count on to deliver is sad to you, I don't understand it, but I respect your feelings. I write for a living. I write what the person with the money pays me to write. I'm proud of that. People know that they can count on me to deliver exactly what they are paying for. Some people see that as selling out. I don't understand that. A "sell out" is one who compromises their integrity, morality, or principles for personal gain; such as money. I do none of those things as a working writer. I am a writer. To take money for that is the way I earn my living. To me ultimate goal of a screenwriter is to earn a living. Sad? Only to those who can earn their living doing something else while they write for the sake of the art. Something I have respect for.

What struck me, D Marcus, is that you mentioned nothing about liking what you did. We all have jobs, some suckier than others. I would think that crafting stories would be a great job, but your post didn't say anything of that. Each of us needs to sleep at night, so approach it the best way that doesn't eat at you.

Robert, in my first post I answered the question posed by Thomas. In my opinion doing the job your boss asks you to do is the ultimate goal of screenwriting. I didn't mention anything about liking what I do because that wasn't what Thomas was asking. I agree with you, Robert, each of us approaches it the way that doesn't eat at us. I respect writers whose ultimate goal is story. I respect writers whose ultimate goal is the art. And I know that many writers feel that writers who put earning a living first are whores or sell-outs. That is something I have never been able to understand. For the record I didn't see it as a put down. Many people feel the way Robert does. And for the record I don't always like what I am asked to write. But I'm a working writer. My ultimate goal as a screenwriter is do write what they person with the money pays me to write. To some that is whorish. I'll expand on Thomas' discussion; I disagree with your advice, Thomas, that a writer shouldn't worry about anything but the story. There are far more low budget independent film produced each year than studio films. Budget is the primary consideration. A good writer can write a good story within the confines of a small budget; consideration of the amount of actors that can be employed and locations is essential – something a writer needs to worry about. A writer who can write well within limitations is a writer that producers want to work with. Some call that whoreish or selling out. I call it the ultimate goal of screenwriting.

Thomas I don't think you can generalise the ultimate goal for every screenwriter out there. I have equal respect and admiration for a screenwriter whether they are doing it to put bread on the table, changing the world or expressing via art. We all have a shared passion, but we all have different goals.

Thank you D Marcus. That tells me more than your first post. I apologize for my response. I guess I'm too idealistic about what should be happening. My feeling is that a script and movie is just a different medium to telling a story. For now, what I'm working on is most likely not low budget. They are sci-fi, which is a love of mine. I don't know how well they will be received, but I'll continue because I really have nothing going for me now and it's one of those things that if you don't at least try, you go to your grave feeling worse than having failed.

I thank you for your responses. After posting the question I had a feeling this debate might rear its ugly head. I was going on the assumption writers do what they must to make a living and satisfy those who shell out the paychecks. This aside, what makes any screenplay stand out as being what the gatekeepers are looking for? Is it a screenplay that fits into the confines of commercial and budgetary concerns or are they more apt to want a screenplay with a story that truly moves them regardless of budget concerns or the commercial potential?

LOL! Not to downplay or come off as the "simple summizer" but this discussion was a lot about what happens in so many situations of mixing artistry and money. Good discussion lessons for me here guys. And after all the point is to make money from the artistry and craft. I just hope by expanding any good creation the creation itself is never totally destroyed.

Thank you for the advice, Dan. When I'm finished with the first one, along with the rewrites, I'm hoping to get some recognition for it through contests. It may fall outside of Nicholl, but zoetrope has its contest and Final Draft has the Big Break, so maybe from those two, it might gain some traction before I start hounding people over it.

No need to apologize Robert – we each have our personal goals. Your ultimate goal as a screenwriter is different than mine. I respect yours. You now understand mine a little better. I am a very curious person so I have a little scenario: you sell your sci-fi screenplay and a producer asks you to write another one. The deal is you write from his story, in his time-frame and the limitations of his budget. The pay is good, not life altering great, but good. If you take the job will you think of yourself as a sell-out? Or would you not take the job?

Well here is my perspective as someone who writes, produces and directs their own material, and also adapts the screenplays of other writers. 1. I need a script that will lay the foundation and fire my imagination. I often use the script as a starting point only, and bring my own vision to it. As such, I need a compelling plot, memorable characters, and so forth, but I disregard any cinematic elements written on the page in favor of my own ideas. So the goal of a screenwriter should be give me just enough to tell your story well, and maybe hint at the other cinematic stuff but don't be too assertive about it. 2. If you can create an atmosphere, or imply back story, or charge the scene emotionally without appearing heavy handed, you've done a great job. You've lead me down a path without pushing me. That's a great script. 3. It depends. Directors ought to be able to color in those elements, but some can't or aren't able to. I fortunately have the freedom as an indie filmmaker to embellish as I choose, but someone else with a studio breathing down their neck may not have that luxury. As such, the answer depends on the situation. As a director has greater flexibility, the need of the script to detail cinematic elements is probably less important.

D Marcus, I would probably take it. Paying work w/ credit (I would get writer's credit, yes?) is just that.

I agree with the many voices who say the goal is to satisfy the person /people paying for my services. BUT as someone who has a good working relationship with the director/producer, I can give my opinions, argue for what I think will be best for the script but bottom line is, it's my JOB to make this script work for someone else's budget restraints, locations and yes vision. If I ever become successful enough to have a producer or director ask me for a script I have written solo and they want to give me some control, well cool, but I still have to work within the confines of budget, location, etc. And yes it is possible to have a working relationship with the director/producer. I'm happy to say that after working with Johnny Martin on Case Number 13, he's hired me to write his next one...yes, it's HIS next one for which I'll have credit as writer. That's my JOB not my art. I will insert as much of my vision and art into it, and if he likes it and can film it, it will stay. Am I a whore for getting paid to write it his way? Not at all, I'm not doing anything to be ashamed of. I'll be writing a script that works for him, the film will employ several crew members who also need to work, and it will pay for my kid's college classes this year. Sounds like a win win situation to me. I am doing what I LOVE. It makes me very happy to be a writer. I have always loved movies and I have been fascinated with how they are made since my first visit to Universal Hollywood as a child. And I love to write fiction. Screenwriting gives me a chance to combine everything I love! Sure beats my "day job" (which I hope to be able to afford to leave soon!)

Thank you, Alle. I think you nailed the most important part of this discussion and what I was looking for. Love writing and love what you write and your stories will be better off for it. Film is collaborative and a writer must always be open to ideas to make a story better specially when it comes from those who are paying the bills. I guess the trick is to take those ideas and find a way to make your story even better than it was. If the writer is talented enough than this is not an obstacle but more an opportunity, right?

Well put, Evan! This is how I write screenplays. The story dictates the mood and possibly the style and it may be hinted at in the writing but it is never heavy handed or overly stated with direction. Story is first and foremost and as long as I love my stories I think others will also. But I always remain open minded to suggestions to make them even better than I thought could be possible. Hence the importance of feedback from our peers. Right?

Alle. I understand that your post is not directed at me personally and I do not take it personally. But I would like to address what you said. I envy you, Alle, you can turn down writing jobs based on your personal feelings - I can't. I am writing purely for money and I have thought about whether that is really what I want to do and what to have my name credited to. Writing is what I really want to do. So much so that I love earning my living at it. I have written projects I don't like at all. But I'm a writer. I like your analogy; a construction worker under a foreman. I have respect for construction workers and I have no problem with people thinking of me like that. I work for a living. And my job is writing. I love writing and I love earning my living doing what I love. You think of people like me as a monkey that presses keys on behalf of someone. I think of myself as a craftsman working for a living. It's fascinating to me that some people read into my posts that as a writer-for-hire I lay back and simply do the work. I never said that or suggests that I do it or think that is the goal of a writer. Of course I question and discuss and "spitball" ideas, themes and characters. But my ultimate goal is to give the producer the script they want.

You live in LA, Dan. To this day, CA still has the stigma of having one of, if not the highest, cost of living in the US. The wage I made at my last and best paying job here in Milwaukee would probably get me a room over a garage and still struggling to pay for some amenities in LA. If and only if, your goals changed to something more monetary, I know I would understand, but is there anything of the idealistic artist remaining?

When I first responded to this, it was with respect to spec screenplays where story is first and foremost, and since we write screenplays for the screen, where the cinematic elements are crucial. It seems this discussion has somehow diverged (which is good and educational) to what's important as writer once a producer shows interest or has purchased the script - a totally different set of parameters.

I think it was me. No, I know it was me who took this discussion into the world of the paid writer and not spec screenplays. I think you're right, Mark, the discussion is about the spec screenplay.

Well, he did infer spec screenplays, but there being different types of screenwriters here, it would unfair to pigeonhole it to just specs. I am an unsold, unfinished screenwriter, writing his first spec in the hopes of drawing interest while I still draw breath. I rule of thumb I've heard is you can pretty much throw your first five attempts away. Eek. I'm hoping I dreamt enough of the story I'm working on to not have to throw it away.

Don't listen to any rule of thumb nonsense Robert, out of my first five screenplays, two were spotlighted on the Blacklist, one ended up on a studio consider list and the other produced as a short. (All first drafts btw - but remember all first drafts suck right?) You can write a great first spec, and you can keep rewriting it to make it even better. Goals aren't a black and white thing, they are different for all of us and change over time. That's why I believe you shouldn't live your life by them (or other peoples). I feel you should strive toward what motivates you everyday because it's the journey that matters.

Oh and my sixth was an absolute stinker lol

1) Selling your spec, pitch, pilot, ect. 2) Writing the best material with commercial potential. 3) Doesn't a great script have all the best elements, cinematic being a major component? What you're describing sounds more in line with a stage play.

I love the world of screenwriters and creativity simply because there are so many right aspects in this discussion and really no wrongs. So if I were a to take something away from this discussion what I would do is take all the right aspects with the most common thread. Move on and develop with that mindset incorporated with my own. That's what I'm going to take away from this discussion anyway. "To know and embody mindsets of all good writer's at different levels can only make the mindset of a screenwriter better as long as they don't lose the mindset of themselves in the process". Maybe that sounds dumb but it is the way I see it. Much as actor's do with character's I would suppose.

Alle, my understanding, a spec script is one a new writer uses to showcase their skill. It may get bought, it may get produced, but it's main purpose is to showcase. Or, it may be one written by an experienced screenwriter hoping to sell it to a producer in a pitch. However, I never understood it to be a commissioned work. Can some of our American associates clarify this?

I could be wrong but I think that a spec script can actually be privately commissioned, written as a showcase by a new writer or it can be written by a seasoned professional for what ever reason to be snatched up for the right price in a bidding war.

A "commissioned" script is a script someone pays a writer to write. A "spec" script is a script written on the speculation that someone will buy it. Robert, you are correct. Very few spec script sell. In the vast majority of cases the spec script is used as a writing sample. I suppose a scenario could exist in which a producer commissions a writer to write a script without pay and the promise to find a buyer. That would still be a script written on spec.

A question to you guys and ladies who write for a budget, how do you gauge whether you're going over or not?

I'll give the producer or director a kind of step sheet before I even start the script, and that runs scene for scene, just a few lines showing the major plot points. If it's going to have action, I'll add those scenes and then get notes back which will let me now what he can and can't do, or what he's willing to fight for extra money for! On a recent one, I heard a great song by Fall Out Boy that I wanted to use, with a kind of youtube video supposedly made by the characters, and using the music, but knowing how expensive it is to buy rights to a song, I told him he could possibly get a similar song. But then I also edited together a video, showing him what I wanted to have happen during the song. He loved the video so much he ended up really wanting the song, and almost got it, but then a cast member, it turns out, is a singer songwriter and wrote a song after they filmed much of the action for the scene, and it ended up being a better fit (and cheaper haha). I do have a spec script with my partner which he has pitched to bigger producers and he even got a high profile actor interested in the script, so we know it will have a higher budget. I was free to create wilder action, requiring more stunts pyrotechnics, etc. If I have no idea what the budget will be, I write it somewhere in the middle, and if they like the plot and ideas, they can make the action/locations etc bigger and more expensive later.

I'll go back to my background in the music business for an analogy. I was told never to hand out something that you have to make excuses for. If your band fired the bass player after recording your demo, then re-record the demo with the new bass player. (FTR, I'm not a musician.) If you've written a great story but it lacks cinematic elements, then it isn't a great screenplay. Go back and work on the cinematic elements that you know need work, and then start shopping your screenplay, and not a day before.

How would a screenplay that lacks in cinematic potential ever get in front of a director? I'm only conjecturing here as I have no experience in either capacithy. But it seems to me that there has to be more than just a good story, and if it's a good story then the cinematic value must be inherent. What director wants to have to do the work of the screenwriter. Otherwise, the role of the director becomes that of editor and I can't imagine that there's room for that time-wise or budget-wise.

The director/producer I am working with cares very much about the film. It's his project. I am adding my talent and vision to it (and giving new life and in some cases ideas that work better than his first thoughts) So yeah, I'm pleasing my employer and I'll have another credit to add to my resume. Mediocrity? Ask your average movie goer to name two Oscar winning screenwriters that were not already directors or actors. A friend said they loved Hurt Locker but couldn't name the screenwriter. I don't need to be famous I need to do a job I love and enjoy and make myself happy while making money to give myself a better lifestyle. I'll be getting paid for my third screenplay soon, with one in post and another to start filming by October if all goes well. If that makes me mediocre, Oh well, I'm HAPPY!

That's harsh, Dan T. I've been in a private conversation with D Marcus and I have respect for him and Dan G and anyone else that can work within limitations. Business will impose limits, all centered around money. I don't like having my nose rubbed in it, probably because I'm aware even if I don't want to admit it. If a writer can write a good to great story within those limits, that's pro. If art is expression and business is limitations, professionalism in screenwriting would be merging the two.

@Dan G. I apologize. I made an assumption on something I didn't have a complete picture of. So, you're on to producing, that sounds good. I dreamed of being a director, but as I learn more, it looks like the producer (an active producer) is the foundation of the whole production.

1. To plant a seed of awareness in the hearts of a target audience, 2. Yes and yes. 3. Cinematic storytelling is what separates the scriptwriter from the novelist. All 3 senses, perhaps four, if the language provokes a visceral reaction.

Everyone as a general rule I do not post a "Hey check this out" article because under normal circumstances it is not good etiquette but this article so resonates a writers rants, ramblings and resonations. What floors me parallel is the date this article was written and what this 2014 discussion is about. In the ever changing media world does anything really ever change. I just couldn't resist posting this. http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1945/11/writers-in-hollywood...

I'll get back to you after breakfast.

I haven't read ALL the comments on this thread, but the goal of screenwriting is to make money. It's a career. It's a business. It's not poetry or painting. Your goal is to make money. All The rest is what makes you happy about screenwriting and the process. But the goal...is to make money. If your script lacks all cinematic quality, has no conflict, is not visual, has no cohesive story, isn't easily pitchable, has no clear concept or idea or hook, and has no trailer moments or characters that can be cast by major stars that sell movies, then all you have is a 110 page writing exercise or therapeutic outlet for your creativity. And those things are fine - but don't kid yourself. If you want to be a working, paid, professional screenwriter, then your projects need to have those cinematic elements. Period. And anyone who says differently isn't serious about making this a career that they can make MONEY doing.

Writing with a budget in mind isn't all that difficult. Helicopters cost money, crashing them into an office tower costs more. The more scene locations, the higher the cost. Specialized or exotic locales cost money (rent or travel or set construction). Car chases or crashes cost money. Large casts cost money. Anything remotely dangerous cost money (stunt people, permits, insurance, on-site medical personnel, local police). Outdoor locations cost more (uncontrolled factors like gawking passersby, honking horns, weather changes all result in additional takes). Animals and children raise costs (again, more takes). Etc, etc, etc...

Danny - Making money is not that important to some of us.

Dan, no one's saying you shouldn't create art. or do it for the love of writing. If you truly love the process of screenwriting, great. But this is a business first. A young writer's goal is to make it a career. However that might come. But screw you for saying I'm "on the take." I don't even know that means - on the take from whom? You can move an audience, you can move fucking mountains. But if you're not writing cinematically, you're not going to get the chance to do that. If you want to sell a message, write a blog. If you want to express your deepest self, write a book. If you want to entertain in a visual medium, however, then there are certain elements a script needs. And there is nothing wrong with writing for commercial reasons. I will say this though so I'm not misunderstood - if you go into screenwriting FOR the money - you're making a horrible horrible mistake and will probably wind up homeless. It's not the reason to Go INTO screenwriting or filmmaking. But it should be the goal.

Danny, Thank you for this post. You have answered my question in a most succinct way. I have studied film all my life and have always written cinematically and I improve with each new screenplay. I do love it. Reaching that goal for me is now only a matter of when, not if.

I don't understand why we have to be so black and white about this. So person A is all about the money, good for them. Person B is all about the art, good for them. This whole reject this person who thinks this, run from that person who says that stuff is so unnecessary, we're all supposed to be together in this. And this stuff about creativity, it's not fair to say someone lacks creativity or talent because they work within the brief of an assignment, if anything those writers have to be more creative than ever.

I agree about never get INTO it for money. A new screenwriter here wrote a short script I'm sure was artistic and had a great message, but then he posted that he expected to sell his short script for half a million... Not going to happen! This is not a "get rich quick" lottery. (Getting your film out there and made can FEEL like winning the lottery but it pays more like winning nickel slots! ) I got into it at the suggestion of a friend who needed help with a script. this script is indeed his "dream script" one that he does not want to have anyone change, one he wants to shoot his way. He has directed in the past and wants full control of this one and wants it to be very "art house". That said we are sitting on it until he can raise money and get it made his way. We also want to have it taken seriously by doing other films in partnership. So we both worked in a genre we never thought we would for a friend of his. ...horror. It gave us our first screen credit as a writing duo. After the first draft, my partner had to back out due to other obligations but I continued to work with the director to finish the project and that helped me get more work. My partner is already established as a director/choreographer, I needed to establish myself as well. One of our first attempts to get a spec script made resulted in the producer saying something akin to, "Well, him I know but...what has SHE done?" To be taken seriously you really have to build a reputation first. So young writers, keep that fire in the belly to make ART don't let it burn out! BUT If you want your TRUE vision, your artistic masterpiece that will shake the foundation of your soul and affect the souls of others, yes you can! Go ahead and make that screenplay and any others like it your personal project. Meanwhile write scripts that will SELL, scripts that you don't mind changing and collaborating with the other artists working on the film. The directors, producers, cinematographers, set designers, lighting, etc etc and let them make it the way they can or have to. Make a career, get a reputation as a screenwriter, then save up, and produce your dream project yourself. To make a film of such high art and make it a QUALITY film, takes MONEY. What good is the most artistic high concept script, no matter how well written and soul stirring, if you can't afford good actors, great cinematographers, a quality crew that knows what they are doing etc? That costs money. No one wants to take a risk on a new writer with a high concept, non commercial film unless you have well known names attached. Once you have a reputation it will be easier to get people on board to help make it your way. My partner's dream script is still in my laptop, waiting to be made. And it will... eventually. Meanwhile I'm working on my career. One that, now that I have been introduced to it, I love and don't want to work at anything else! And because I value my time and effort and the welfare of myself and my family, I want to get paid. I don't want a bad reputation of being someone who is not going to cooperate and I don't want to sell myself cheap because then I'll never make enough to support myself and do this full time. So I am indeed making money at it, while contributing cinematic ideas and visions that will work with the budget provided. And someday, maybe the art film my partner and I make will shake souls or maybe it will flop. But because it's not the ONLY script we produce, it's more likely that we WILL work again because we'll have reputation of making more commercial films and our one artsy film will be an exception not the rule...unless it is a huge success and we can make another... So I went into the biz with the mindset of, "Wow I am being mentored and given the opportunity to enter a new career! CAREER! And I was given the opportunity by being given free rein to rewrite a script that was an "art film" but won't be made yet...Is that so bad?

I really should be concentrating on my latest script and get writing now and so I'm going to make this my last post on this subject. I just wanted to toss out this brain fart I had... Ever notice that when you see a poster that says "Support the ARTS" there are photos of dancers, theater groups, musicians etc but never a movie poster or photo of a film crew? Hmm.... Oh I know why! Because the film industry I write for is thought of as a commercial industry! Yes, it often contains more artistic endeavors but for the most part I believe if you want to work and have a career as part of it, you accept it as such. A commercial industry and a collaborative one as well.

If you are writing for any reason other than telling a story then you are doing it wrong. A great story is what sells a script; Nota flashy descriptions of computer graphics, not some hot and sweaty scene, not how you plan on setting up the lights or the lens filter that will be used. It comes down to your plot, ability to relate to characters, your overall statement, and hopefully, a call to action. Make your viewers and readers think. Sure, cinema has always been an escape, but people watch to learn and to expand their knowledge. If you leave them asking "why?" or NEEDING more... Your readers will want to be viewers and your viewers will carry your message, your story, your creation with them for the rest of their lives. I say all of that assuming your story is in a properly scripted format :) Best.

Dan, you speak as if you are stating FACT and I am merely stating an opinion (and a wrong one in your eyes at that). But you are doing the same - it's your OPINION. Go ahead - prove to me the point of writing for EVERY writer is self-expression. You can't, because it's your personal OPINION. The goal of any career in any field is to master it in a way that allows you to make a living doing that. The goal of WRITING can be different than the goal of writing as a career. You can write for a million reasons. Therapy, Creative Outlet, Boredom, Legacy, Self-Expression, whatever. But The goal of taking that writing and turning it into a career is so that you can make a living. You know, cause stuff costs money. That has NOTHING to do with anyone paying me to do anything or my company. Or what I do for a living. And you're rude and insulting for no reason.

Alle, I am very confused. Are you a wannabe writer? A producer? A Creative Executive? A Script Consultant? A Director? What ARE you? Because you seem to be doling out advice and consulting help and charging for it, yet you seem to still be a wannabe screenwriter. So, I'm not sure what your angle on here actually is. If you want a career where you don't make any money, go for it. More power to you. I like being able to pay my bills, and I do so BY helping people build their careers. But if you wanna do that and NOT make a penny...be my guest. I'll pass.

You seem to have it all worked out Thomas. Why are you asking us, as everyone will have a different opinion. You mention the Ultimate goal of a screenwriter is to develop the best storyline they can, though I feel the Ultimate goal of any screenwriter is to get produced. The storyline is just one of the steps in reaching the final Goal and not really the Ultimate Goal IMHO. Take baby steps towards where you want to be and eventually with determination and hard work, you may get there. Good Luck Buddy.

Alle - You pose in intriguing question “What is an old writers [sic] objective?” At my age, I’m what you’d call an “old writer” and I’m beginning to ask myself. I believe that I ought to give freely to young up and coming writers – offer my expertise gained from decades of experience and learning. But I run into an awful lot of young writers who indicate that they already know all there is to know – that causes me to take pause – but every now and again I meet up with an energetic, dedicated young devotee that makes it all worthwhile.

Hi Doug, I'm a middle-aged writer (although I feel spry), and I don't know everything there is to know. No one does, because writing is searching for truth and beauty and presenting it in a compelling way. I wonder how many young invincible scribes can engage their audiences in such a way. There are some, but writing is more than craftsmanship, more than getting in late and getting out early, for example. Martin Scorsese says that he is still a student. So am I, because the search for truth is limitless, exploring human nature is limitless, etc. Therefore, you, Doug, are not an old writer, but a writer.

Gorgon, "No one does, because writing is searching for truth and beauty and presenting it in a compelling way. " I feel differently. I think we already know the truth. The problem is two fold: One, the willingness to bring it out. You have to be willing to see it, hear it, feel it, then put it out there. Two, translating from what we see, hear, feel to written words and described images so that the reader can get some fraction of the writer's truth. But often, we don't practice what we preach because it makes us vulnerable and so the problem becomes systemic.

Alle – it’s not polite to ask how old I am but let me ask if you remember the M.T.M. TV show “Rhoda”. I was there. I started with a clock work 16mm Bolex; way back to the original “True Grit” time – way before computers, e-mail, YouTube…digital anything. Hope that answers your question? You’re right to stay away from toxic people.

There's no doubt that the story is the writer's job. They lay down the foundation. In a film medium, everyone contributes to the story.

But Zoe, how much is the writer, who lays down the foundation, entitled to? A few thousand dollars and credit from a multi-hundred million dollar profit movie?

I think it's hard to say. That's why there's a writer's union, for protection, but writers are pretty much sidelined when it comes to film. Unless they've made a successful effort to see the entire vision through from beginning to end, they're better off just trying to sell it for what they can, if they can and move on.

I have two other ideas I plan to work on that I have zero problem parting with for credit and cash, but I have one I'm lovingly fussing and agonizing over. I'm feeling a bit more attached to it because I believe it could grow into a decent, if not great IP and franchise.

I think one of the problems with that is that it requires the right balance of waiting too long or not long enough to develop it. I write fast and reuse templates to put the stuff out there as quickly as I can. I need to make a living right now before I craft something that moves heaven and hell, and that's hard enough.

Hello Doug. Sorry to say you sound frustrated at the young writers of today and I really sympathize with you. There are so many big EGOs in this industry it is tough even associating with some people. It's not about money, it's not always just about the story, it's not always about the writing. Reaching a goal is about a lot of sweat and tears. It takes years of work to master the art with no guarantee of cracking the big time. Huge risks... I myself have been writing for some 6-7 years and really would have loved a mentor with your experience and more so attitude. I am incredible at storyline and have an amazing feel for it though I have to admit it is probable more so the execution that let's me down though I am working on it. Sometimes screenwriting is a joint effort to bring people with different talents together in order to create something extraordinary. I know over the years you must have questioned yourself numerous times though have you ever wondered WHY? Why find you not get there ? Love to know your thoughts on this and happy to receive a private message if you don't want it on this thread. Alex

Man. Typed this quick and I hate the Autocorrect function as it gives me different works.

Yeah Zoe, I'm an upstart, an outsider. I don't work in the industry and have no name in it. If I die now, I leave the world as anonymously as I entered it. I gain nothing, lose nothing, so I have as much time as the heart allows.

Thread is to long and drifted into other places - I'm outta here.

Doug, sorry if my last comment upset you. I'm just saying that for me, story comes first, so I'll take as much time as I need and have to make it good.

Robert, when writers get attached to their work then they need to be producers, too. You are entitled to ask for anything (and everything) you want during the negotiation for the right to your script.

Dan, it's No BullScript Consulting. And honestly, go fuck yourself. I make more contributions to this board than you, and have been working in Hollywood for over 11 years. I DO write (and polish), thank you very much and have been mentored by some wonderful writers and producers. I've been a script consultant the last 5 years, but I was a development executive and producer at different production companies for several years developing projects by writers of ALL levels, and if you knew me, you'd know one thing - I am FAR from a shark. Your disgustingly rude and totally off-based comments are unfounded and unfair. You don't know me, my company, my talents, or anything I've done in my career. So honestly, you can shove your opinions right up your snobby, too-good-for-the-room ass. Learn your facts before you speak. I have been HELPING writers my whole career and no one ever said screenwriting isn't art. Of course it is. It's an impossibly hard craft to master. That doesn't mean it's not a business. But I'm done fighting with you because quite frankly, you're a dick and I don't give a shit about your opinion. My opinion that screenwriters want to make money in their career is backed up by...oh, I don't know, every screenwriter who demands to be paid for their work? How about this - you just work for free fort he rest of your life. Sound good? You sanctimonious douche.

And by the way, I never ONCE mentioned my company, my services, or asked anyone to hire me, so I don't know where you get off saying I'm promoting anything or preying on anyone. YOU'RE the one who mentioned my job, my company and my services and made it personal. Because you don't really have anything else to add.

Sorry Guardino, not you!! The other one. But I apologize to all for my defensive/offensive rant. It's not what these forums are for and I will try to refrain going forward. I'm like Hulk...you wouldn't like me when I'm angry. hehe. That being said, I'm off this thread. It's all been said.