Screenwriting : Writing story from the inside out. by Dillon Mcpheresome

A screenwriter should write for the audience first and foremost (if that is what you are asking and if your intention is that the script be produced). If the audience doesn't 'get it' everyone's time and money is wasted. I'd say that's where a lot of scripts fail -- the writer has it all worked out in their heads but fails to convey it on the page so the audience can see the same story the writer thinks they are telling.

I guess I am thinking that the first draft be written from the point of the main character then we must consider what the audience is experiencing. So t

So The story you think you are writing may be different than the one the reader is reading.

This is what happens most of the time and why it is important to get feedback to make sure what you have in your head is coming across clearly on the page.

Hi Dillon, when you say 'story meaning' I'm thinking plot. Plot is a set of events, based on a conflict, that force the interaction of characters and propel them to a climax. I've read McKee, attended a Hauge presentation, have Vogler's "The Writer's Journey" as well, etc. Great tools. A dominant POV is best (exactly - the protagonist), with a few character POVs to move the story forward fitting the plot. The one that works best will answer the question: What is happening now and why, and does it best serve the story? So, without going too deep or overthinking it, I say write the scenes and character interactions that are most impactful. Set up using each character's motives and show us visually and in dialogue. The meaning will come through in the quality of the character's constitutions, their subtle references, body language, silence. Good luck! Write on!

Have to disagree with Laurie. You have to write first and foremost for yourself--is this something you're passionate about, something YOU would die to see on the screen. Then you take the audience's considerations/expectations into account in the form of "does my story meet certain genre conventions and how do I turn those conventions on their head or otherwise use audience expectations to both surprise and satisfy them?" I think if you go into it with the audience's expectations before yours, then you'll write something you think will please them, but might unknowingly just re-hash material they've already seen with dull or cliche characters. Whereas if you write for yourself first, then you will more likely invest in characters YOU actually care about which should turn into a more rewarding and believable story as opposed to creating characters that you think should act like those that came before them to thrill audiences. I don't suggest to ignore those characters that came before yours; you should study them and figure out why they worked. Just don't copy them verbatim which you might just do if you're trying to write to an audience before you write for yourself first. As to the gurus you mentioned, though they may offer much of the same advice, some of it for good reason (because it works), they are still pretty different from one another in their teachings that it's tough to say they're all espousing the same information. Egri, for example, gives the best argument on how to tackle theme, which is what I think you're grappling with--the "what's the story really about" question without it hitting the audience over the head. Read him again and think about making the theme question active rather than passive in your rewrites.

I feel the trap that's easy to fall into is to slip away from the main focus of writing entertaining cinema. The books can get very pretentious and so introspective they fetishise the craft of story and character development to the point they're exclusively trying to satisfy something greater than the audience's short term expectations.

I think you've also got to reflect on yourself as a writer before studying the academia. The literature can hold artistic writing in such high esteem you can exit the book with contrasting aspirations. Often various popular movies are denounced, certain genre's mocked, or topes scoffed at. You can exit the book aspiring to the author's ambitions over your own.

In reality Paul Chitlik told me the best advice, there as many different methods to write screenplays as there are registered WGA members. Learn from everyone, read the books, pick the eyes out of it, develop your own style and write your way.

CJ I can't tell where your theory or philosophy of structure lies. I've seen you write against Blake Snyder and other structure books in favor of unrestrained freedom. It appears to me with all the falderal about new writers and bad scripts that some guidance would be supported.

and you extol the virtue of Voice. I don't know any books on voice. Do you have one?

So you guys remind me of a song Ripple by the Grateful dead. "You who choose to lead must follow. But if you fall you fall alone. If you should stand then who is to guide you? If I knew the way, I would take you home."

Hello Dillon, as far as I can tell, a lot of people can tell you must find your voice but people only have opinions on what it is about. Some of the best advice i have seen is from people like Stephen King and Lee Child

Dillon, I'm not sure I even know where I stand on those points :) I am actually pro-Synder and pro-academia. And yes indeed I am pro voice. And you're indeed right, there's sadly no books on the latter. I'm just trying to point out that the world the literature often delves deeply into a side that tends to be only superficially touched upon in movies. As for freedom, I write in the complete opposite fashion. I know my structure and my beats before I put the character on their journey. I find it gets far too messy for me otherwise.

I agree CJ

I see stuff like this : If your rewrites are not Improving the Quality of your script: If you've done rewrite after rewrite and not had a significant jump in the quality, then you need to look at your skills. Yes, there are specific skills for rewriting, and also a sequence that makes it easier to elevate the quality of your script. We've got some great classes that present those strategies so we can make some money. I think I'm trying to get to the quality of a script either from the inside out or from audiences POV.

Yes it seems you're presenting two routes, Dillon. Write purely from the POV of the protagonist and re-write to firm up the presentation to the audience. Or. Write from the POV of the audience and re-write to firm up the structure in terms of the protagonist's journey. Have I got that correct?

The way I write is that I find the story and let the characters tell me their POV then I lay that down over the best shape or structure I can fit it to. Then trim or polish it to make it an audience read.

I still think that the main story teachers are a great place to start then find what works for you within the accepted formats

Yeah I loved reading through the books, they gave me an enormous amount of insight into what I was really trying to achieve. But, just like you say Robert, I had spend some time reflecting and experimenting with what worked for me. I just wish I'd been more resolute going in as I feel I lost focus on where my passion lies.

The bottom line for me was I learned the most spending time with established writers chatting like this or in network get togethers, learning what worked and what didn't from people who had tried and failed and succeeded. Getting hints from pod casts and interviews is good too. You may only get one idea at a time but it's good to pick the brains of others. As the saying goes we all stand on the shoulders of others.

So does rewriting from the POV of audience enhance the quality of the script as much as hitting all your tent poles and beats?

There is only one reader you really need to worry about and that's the reader who first gets your work. If it is an entertaining and engaging read then you will get the 'recommend' stamp or at least the 'consider' you need to make sure that you don't get the dreaded 'pass' and the best way to do that is to make sure you present a professional looking script with an entertaining read for their eyes. The director, when assigned, will make sure that the audience is catered for. If you have an engaging read being a page off on your tent poles is forgivable and make sure that you don't put in a script that hits 120 pages.

Okay -- I'm slammed up against 3 deadlines today guys so I haven't dropped off the thread I just have to feed the beast. Real quick, 1) there's a difference between writing for your passion/writing for yourself, and conveying said passion for the material in a cohesive way. For a few early responders it looked like things were getting confused there -- but they seem to be coming back around so I'm not going to belabor on what I originally replied. 2) Robert has a healthy approach by picking up tidbits here and there and making them his own. I did the same thing, I was fortunate enough to have been sent to McKee's, Snyder's and Vogler's seminars long ago. All of that guidance (to me) should be approached like any other endeavor -- think of a professional athlete, they have the rules of the game they are expected to adhere to, but if they truly are at the top of their game, they have figured out a way to make it their own. (That is the voice and you're right -- there is no book -- because it's an individual skill that sets you apart. For the big question of who you are writing for, your reader IS your first audience member. They have to be able to see the story unfold before their eyes. The difficulty in finding your voice as a screenwriter is laying down the words in a way that does this effectively, efficiently, and in an engaging way. It truly is one of the more common 'craft' problems in most scripts -- the story isn't unfolding in the order, clarity and emotionality the writer envisions in their head. That's what writing for the audience is about. Keep up the conversation, I'll try and chime in when I dig myself out.

I'm with you on that... add to your list Bill Froug and Richard Walter, got some great stuff from them too.

Dillon, I don't think there's necessarily a best way. I think there's just the way which lends itself best to how your mind works. Personally I like plans and itineraries, if I know where I'm headed I feel more freedom to express myself.

I'm writing something now and trying to set it straight in my mind. I am writing from the story meaning, of being in the story. I am usually the main character. But Alle, I don't mean from his POV. When the main character is doing something, I ask what I would do in that situation. But if is say to myself "I would like to see that in a movie." I know it is coming from the outside looking in and finding the right combination is a challenge. What I would like to see in a movie are the things that break the small budget. The audience being a reader is tough also. But this thread gives me confidence to pursue my passion. The thrill comes from learning a little bit everyday while writing original stories.

keep going!!!