Screenwriting : Screenwriting contests by Roxanne Paukner

Doesn't diminish. At all.

Ridiculous and cynical. But to each their own.

In less reputable competitions, yes. The deal is to spend on an entry fee and more for feedback.

But you didn't claim that in your first post, Laura Scheiner Instead, you posted one of those blanket myths that, in my opinion, is poison for aspiring writers. You've been around here a long time. Surely, you've heard me repeatedly preach to writers that the only contests worth entering are those which give you access to gatekeepers and decision makers. Winning a contest that offered that kind of access changed the course of my screenwriting career and I've seen it happen with 5 of our last 6 contest winners as well. Ironically, one of the many contests that people revere and receives thousands of entries a year has produced pretty much zero success stories. The people who run it do absolutely nothing to help their winners get read. I've seen that first hand as well. But people are just so blinded by the brand they enter year after year.

So, at the end of the day, it's a dangerous game to make a blanket statement that contests are a waste of money. It's up to the writer to do the research and choose those contests that open the right doors for those who place high or win outright.

R.B. Basically I agree with you (having been a festival judge/reviewer and a reader for a couple of Agencies.) But the OP's question brings up a valid point in the eyes of new script scribes. It's difficult to perform the due diligence in such a vacuumious environment. It would be nice to shine a little light on the topic.

By chance, I was reading about those pay to win games(whose impact I fully received), better hope this isn't the case here.

I noticed a side industry made of books and courses and workshops that, for a fee, can teach you the secret of writing a screenplay good enough to be picked up... Some contests offer feed-back, many AFTER its deadline, so it cannot influence the results. .

I heard of one where you can keep getting notes until it's over, but you have to pay for them everytime you get them...

all writing is pay to play and has been for decades. It costs $50,000 to get a poem published in an obscure academic journal .

Laura Scheiner I have ten fingers. I can easily name 10 pro wga union writers who got their industry break winning a contest.

Is the contest business any different from the script consultant business or film festival business or pay to pitch website business? It’s just folks servicing to amateurs and there’s always a few amateurs every year who cross over and become working writers.

I work in the entertainment business. I've run this platform for 7 years. There are hundreds of working executives who work with us, many of whom I speak with or break bread with every week. Your last post still includes dangerous generalities. To be fair, it also includes many arguments that help validate my points.

Couldn't agree more Dan MaxXx - And I could probably name 20 more.

As a writer who's been trying to "cross over" and have contest wins under my belt and positive feedback and all that, I'm highly interested in what you, Dan MaxXx, and several others believe would be my best bet at making the transition?

Answering what you asked, I never buy feedback from contests, and I've placed well in some. So, in my personal experience, buying feedback isn't necessary. About the issue of the utility of the contests itself, I would say: it depends. I've signed a contract with Fox through a company contest, that resulted in a pitch, that lead to a contract. BUT it was a project contest, not a screenwriting contest, which is somehow different. If you're a new writer, contests count in your favor, when compared with other amateurs. It won't count when compared with the pros, and I don't think big studios will get impressed by contest placement. In the other hand, small producers and new agents/managers might. It gives you something to talk in your pitch, and it looks good in your resume. Recently, I closed a deal for writing a screenplay for the theater pitching to a small producer. I won't say contests awards closed the deal, but I can say he got more confident reading my material after he learned I had a few contests under my belt. Of course, once the person reads the material, what counts is the quality of your writing. But there's a long way until someone decides that reading your material won't be a waste of time.

There's the business of screenwriting and there's the business of "becoming a screenwriter" and in some cases those businesses cross over and in other instances those businesses don't. There are a few legitimate screenwriting competitions out there and there are also a ton of scams. You will have to do your homework to verify they are legit.

IOW some are participation trophy contests and others actually have chances to lead to "representation".

If you have a feature that you put into a contest and think it will be the path to hundred thousand dollar sale, etc. those chances are slim to none IMHO (YMMV).

The best hoped for result I've seen are representation and an increased "in" circle of networking. Meaning the contest results in you "breaking in" or getting a toe in the door (takes a long time to get your foot in the door normally).

As Laura Scheiner said above and Richard "RB" Botto as well, and I agree with both of them for different reasons, it all depends on what contests, the credentials of those contests and the legitimacy of their claims.

At the end of they day however all of it relies on the quality of your writing/script and in all honesty, most screenplays are crap (I include myself) and many, many of these contests are sifting through crap trying to find a gem and many times they fail to do that. It's like the self publish avenue Amazon has that people publish their own books. The vast majority of those are crap too although many think they're the next Harry Potter or Stephanie Meyers.

Are you the next Diablo Cody? Don't we all wish but the reality is probably not. Yes you should have confidence you can become a great screenwriter but it is in almost all realities, a long arduous journey (hell it's the Hero's Journey not put into your script but as it's own adventure...or tragedy most likely, just to try to become a successful Hollywood screenwriter).

Some contests don't deserve to be slighted and others deserve to be disparaged for the "participation trophy for pay" money exchanges that they are. At the end of the day, they are businesses, not charities, so the question becomes, do you want to do business with that screenplay competition?

Anthony Moore your best bet, imo (and I am a hobbyist) is to learn how to make movies for profit, meet filmmakers who do this for a living, make a livelihood every day, be around other working people and maybe someone will offer you a writing job because you were just around and someone told someone else you are a writer. That’s how I got gigs. I was just around. I didn’t have to audition or show a spec script. I produced a crappy movie and that was good enough for the people paying me. I knew how to make a movie from paper to finished product. The physical part.

So get a job doing something every day that is industry related - PA, craft services, gaffer, security guard on the lot - whatever puts you in places where they are employed people. If you have to move to another city,state,country, then move. It’s cold blooded but that is reality. Either leave home or stay home and daydream alone.

I stopped entering contests about 15 years ago when I made too much money to be eligible. I chose paychecks over a certificate.

Not melodramatic in the least. It poison. And I see it day after day.

You're on point Owen Mowatt

As someone who is currently having some success in the screenplay contest circuit, I can say that in my experience it makes no difference whether you purchase contest coverage or forego that additional expense. I personally do not purchase contest coverage preferring, instead, to spend coverage money on a dedicated coverage service before entering a festival/contest. As to the other question that arose in the comments, is there any value to a screenplay contests? I look at these contests as a marketing expense, and quite a reasonable one when placed in that context. Even if you only make the official selection cut it still puts your product in a position to be heralded and setting you above the rest of the noise out there - and every little bit helps. Of course, beyond that, there are contests that offer cash awards which can be quite lucrative - if you win...

I am probably the biggest newbie here and I keep seeing the same discussions about the “cottage industry” that thrives off of new writers like me. (Luckily I’m not well off enough to be taken advantage off. Lol) From an outsider the way I look at it is like any another profession. DO YOUR HOMEWORK. I’ve asked around and researched a lot of contest - like everything else that’s good the cream seems to rise to the top. (Consistent positive reviews and recommendations by fellow writers.) I’ve started to look at these contest like news channels (I’m older) When there where only three channels - every one had to be good. Since then 90% is hogwash.

As far as coverage I never used it - except by fellow produced writers who are looking to help a newbie. In that case I wouldn’t mind paying because I know who is doing it. As for all these muses - if they were that good as writers why do they have to fish for coverage bucks. They’d be making millions with THEIR scripts. Advice is always good - criticism always wanted but if you have to advertise to give it - it makes me wonder. (I reckon the good ones DON’T NEED WEBSITES OR ADS.)

As I’ve written before - I was a “very successful” (? Matter of opinion) football coach. I had a teaching website for coaches. I mentioned on it - I do individual consultations. That was it. I was always busy in the off season, but only after numerous phone calls and emails in order to make sure I could fulfill the buyers needs and they believed in me. Don’t see that in this profession - just send the check.

This argument can go on forever - seen it before on here a million times. Nobody is right or wrong since it is an individual choice. If one wants the extra coverage so be it.

In answer to the original question - no - in the big contest - I don’t think not getting coverage would hurt your chances.

(On a side note - I got two request for my latest scripts - after two months BOTH people said they were still deciding and “If I got coverage by their friend (won’t mention the name) it would help them decide and get funding.” I smell a rat.

Laura, I think the "poison" was your first general comment, although I think some of your other posts are very cynical as well. I noticed that you list yourself as a story analyst and consultant. Based on some of the other posts you've made, I'm curious if you charge for your services? Genuine curiosity! Not an attack!

John Iannucci your last sentence made me shiver. Ratty.

John Iannucci Trade? I will read your scripts for 2 NFL Giants/Philly/New England home tickets.

There are good players and bad players in every industry - the trick is to figure out who's which. Filmmaking remains an intensive craft requiring integrity on the part of all. I still only work eye-to-eye. Unfortunately in the present internet era, there is more spots for the shady types to hide.

Laura Scheiner so you do charge. I'm curious as to your qualifications to do so? Can you point to successes? I notice some small festival wins in your bio for a film years ago, but nothing else. Do you have the same cynical view of small festivals that you do for a small contest? Did this qualify you to charge money? This all seems so odd! Help?!

Laura, you "would never tell a writer of a bad script that the script was bad" - why not? Nearly every script I'm ask to read sucks (actually EVERY scrip). A few score a 1 or 2 on the old suckometer but most are the 5 to 10 range. If you don't tell 'em the truth, then you're just leading them on. I like to tell 'em the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the whole truth straight up (with no chaser). I'll bend over backwards to help them better themselves at the craft/art - IF THEY WANT, but I can't/won't work with the snowflakes. I won't blow smoke up their dress nor will I lead them on. Not everybody is meant to be a screenwriter.

I do however agree with Laura - there is a difference between whaat a contest looks for and what a production company / producer looks for. (Sometimes they Cross but quite often different) One is viewing the aesthetic - one is viewing the commericial. Like I said - A script can have both, but it’s not the main concern of the medium.

It’s why I’ve a number of people with multiple major contest wins, but nothing sold or optioned.

Still I believe contest are one of the best ways for neophytes like me to get out there.

Interesting thread. I had the same cynical attitude after being denied entry into so many festivals, so I decided to see what it was like on the other side and started my own festival.

Laura Scheiner you are what my mother would call a side-stepper. Your response to me is what my aunt would call flowery.

I'll ask again. What qualifies you to be asking people to pay you for your services? You made a short film? Won lower tier film festivals? Why would anyone pay you money? You also say that you don't guarantee anything? Does that mean what you provide isn't worth the money? You're getting more bizarre with every post.

It's also incredible that you are slandering Stage 32 and the work they do here. If I was in their shoes, you'd be hearing from an attorney. I have posted this many times, but will again. This site changed the course of my career. In addition to making me delete my Facebook account forever which was a gift, my writing path has accelerated in more ways than I can count. I recently posted my experiences with Agustine Calderon and Sarah Cornelius. I purchased a script read and a 60 minute consultation call with both here on Stage 32. What was I promised? A read and a call. What happened? Both requested face to face meetings with me. That's not something that Stage 32 promised. That's something that happened because of my writing. These meetings led to an introduction to a manager and a producer. They both have read my script and I have meetings set at the end of this month and early August. NONE OF THIS WOULD HAVE HAPPENED WITHOUT THE OPPORTUNITY TO REACH THESE EXECUTIVES. So how have I been exploited?

Yes, I think feedback and notes from someone working in the industry rather than a peer or someone who earned a some degree decades ago and claims years of experience of writing screenplays where none of that is evident is worth it.

But since we're talking about opinions. You're a nasty human being Laura Scheiner You have an ugly way about you. I agree with Pamela Bolinder and others here. You're toxic and the nastiest person I've encountered here by far since I joined.

I missed where you called Owen a d*** as well. Stay classy.

"your amazingly unastute gut" More class. Bluntness? Classlessness.

And then. . .

Wow. Take your eyes off the site for 24 hours...

I'll ask everyone to remember that we have codes of conduct here that we take seriously. This isn't YouTube! (he typed while smiling.) Let's keep things civil.

Why is our contest not listed in the pitching document? I literally just asked the Happy Writers staffer who wrote it and he said, "I thought that might be...not humble." So, there...Innocent mistake that will be fixed.

Are we viewed as elite in the industry? Well, National Lampoon chose us to partner with and said there was no other consideration. Ditto AT&T. And we're in talk with another major brand moving into original content who approached us to do something with them to help find great writers.

In the last year plus, 3 of the 5 top agencies and at least a half dozen management companies have approached us asking for a first look deal at the finalists. I personally walked one of our finalists into a meeting with one of the top agents at CAA just last week. Our winning screenwriter from last year's Feature Contest is working with an agent with one of the best track record of spec sales over the last 5 years. We made that meeting happen and it's been well documented (you can see his video here: https://www.stage32.com/blog/Announcing-Our-4th-Annual-Feature-Contest). We had 2 meetings in Cannes for our last Search for New Blood Contest Winner that has led to financing/production discussions. 9 of our past contest finalists have either been signed, optioned or had their projects put into development, which I think we can all consider to be counted as successes.

So yes, I think we're elite. Now I can say, I've been at this screenwriting game for a while. When I started, people in the know would claim the same 5 screenwriting contests mattered. People who have been around for some time still quote those 5. But here's the reality: 2 of those have lost their luster and barely register anymore. 1 certainly still has the name, but literally does nothing for their winners and can tout zero success stories. Their sheen is beginning to dull. The other 2 give you the prestige/status to open doors, but don't expect any further assistance. So maybe there are a few contests that have been around longer and carry that shine due to name recognition, but you'll be hard pressed to find any where those involved work harder for their finalists and winners.

I would say that about all our services by the way. And sure, people can have their opinions, and that's perfectly fine. But I see every day how freakin' hard my staff works behind the scenes and how much they help our writers on a one-on-one basis (not part of any service, but certainly part of our culture). As a writer myself, one who has dealt with his share of BS "experts" and snake oil salesman, that's something I couldn't be more proud of.

Thanks to all who have written me and the few who even offered legal services (not necessary, but thanks for having my back). Let's all get along. And again, please, let's keep it civil.

Cheers.

It's bad enough that I read this junk - I'll certainly not enter the fray.

The only people who make/get anything out of screenwriting contests, for the huge majority of them, is the people running them.

R.B. Why are my comments being deleted??? All I want is to selflessly bring value to people on here. I need nothing from anyone on this platform, just want to help.

RB I'm blown away by your response. I have all the respect in the world for you and the work you do here. I apologize to you and the group if I created more issues than necessary.

Hi Ryan, I just removed the comments that were related to the app. Nothing related to this thread has been removed. We kindly ask our members to stay on topic provided by other members. Thank you for understanding.

It’s a contest - not everybody wins - and everybody knows that when they enter. I’m sure there are scripts (although I don’t know specifics) that have not won contest they entered but been produced.

Laura by out there I mean read. It’s a long shot but you take the chance. As for “discouraging” listing lower contest - I’ve only entered the top ones that I get advice to enter. (Pretty soon people will create an industry where they charge for that advice also.). Common sense and finances should dictate what contest a person enters.

Sorry for the delay answering - I go on this board once (maybe twice) a day. Tryin to figure out when some people on here find time to work on scripts.

Tomasz...it’s the fact that your are deleting comments in the first place is what bothers me. Let the fucking cards play where they lie. Allow people at least the opportunity to gain full context of a person’s thoughts, or don’t offer a platform at all. $.02.

Deleting comments...really?

Wow. I posted this question. Richard "RB" Botto answered and I thought that was the end of it.

I took a vacation and came back. Apparently RB's was not the last word!

Good morning! Thanks, everyone, for the eye-opener.

It appears most are in agreement that purchasing feedback doesn't factor in to contest placement. That's what I wanted to know.

Bonus info: whether the contestants are among the real winners is up for discussion. Got it.