Screenwriting : Quote... by Artisan James

The protagonist may win in the climax, but he/she may also lose in some fashion,

even when it comes to meeting that outer motivation/ goal. There is no reason why

a protagonist can't be 1 out of 2 in a story, either meeting their inner goal or

their outer goal but not both.

"Outer goal restoration is expected, but again, the climax can still be won even if

the outer goal isn't met or concluded but the inner goal is." AJ

Sure. The hero could, for example, sacrifice their outer goal in order to achieve a higher purpose, and in doing so, complete their inner journey in a more noble way.

I actually created a main character in one of my stories that does just that,

they both win and lose in the end, achieving 1 of the 2 goals, but it comes across as

satisfying on the page due to the OVERALL EXECUTION of the entire story beforehand,

the screenplay itself! Very tricky to pull off. AJ

I don't think that is always necessary, though. In many films and tv shows, the protagonist doesn't lose much - let alone a great advantage. Django doesn't. The Man with No Name doesn't. Alejandro doesn't, either. Forrest Gump, Bryan Mills, and John Wick don't either .But it does make for some additionally great dramatic irony, juxtaposition, and transformations that might not otherwise exist without it..

I really like when the element that the protagonist does give up is more than a physical resource. I like when what they give up is something internal. Just to name a few of my favorites:

Anti-hero Michael Corleone gives up his ethics and honesty, and even his warm love - some of the reasons Kay fell in love with him - to achieve his changing goals as he transformed.

Leon gives up one of his greatest strengths - his cold detachments - in order to reach his changing goals: to protect Matilda, and to eliminate Norman "EVERYONE!" Stansfield.

Kat and Patrick have to give up their false personas that served them well though life in order to achieve their changing goals.

Father Karras has to give up his faith and himself in order to beat the demon.

Those are all some really great sacrifices/transformations that those writers and filmmakers devised. Nice topic, Artisan!

Bill Costantini - Hey mate. For me, the character 'sacrifices' you're describing there are part of traditional inner transformations, good or bad, that occur throughout the story. I think what Artisan's referring to, and correct me if I'm wrong, are those more singular moments in time/story, those "OMG' moments, usually in the third Act, when the hero realizes they have to sacrifice the thing they thought they needed most. It's sort of a second inner-journey climax (with the first usually happening at the end of Act 2). Is that correct, Artisan James?

Phil: I read "key advantage" as something like "main resource", "main strength", etc. and is established in the set-up, and way before the midpoint or after. I stand corrected, then, and thanks for that. But usually that "thing they thought they needed the most"....sometimes that's taken away by someone else or by accident, and sometimes it's not sacrificed by them at all. And sometimes it doesn't even happen at all.

Not to nitpick....just saying. Every story has its own path, and the more straighter, the less greater. If everyone wrote the same way, we'd all sound like the new Artificial Intelligence computers that are now busy at work writing business reports, poems, short stories, and advertisements, and will soon be on their way to writing feature length films. Sell them while you can, Phil and Artisan - sell them while you can!

Phil Parker To some extent, and it can go even further than that... just watch the ending to Arlington Road (Jeff Bridges, Tim Robbins) an underrated thriller of the 90s,

one of my favorites... and it's ending hits you hard ...dampens you... when it comes to the protagonist. Very bold ending. That script I believe also won a Nicholl Fellowship. Anything's possible I guess ..especially if it's for the better of the story!

What about when there are several Antagonists ?

Bill Costantini - It's ok, I'm part cyborg. I'll still be writing scripts after the apocalypse.

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....to be continued.....