Screenwriting : In dire need of some advice. by Marvin Watkins

Syd Field is a MUST..Any Book.

Trying to write concurrently means you will make the same errors in each.

I made every error there was but each new screenplay shows improvement.

Finish one. Review . Get to the next

David Trottier..Screenwriter's Bible

I learned a lot from Syd Fields, as cliche as that sounds. I’d also recommend watching Lindsay Ellis’s videos on screenwriting, I learned just as much of not more from her.

Never seen her. Will go watch a couple. I also watch Michael Hague on Youtube .

I'd say the best thing you can do at this point is to pick one of your favorite films, or a film that is considered a great film in the genre that you write, and get the script for it, and watch it scene by scene, and read the script along with it. Maybe even watch each scene twice. Or more. Really study how that script and how that film accomplish the things I'm listing below. This is not a complete list of important things, and is just off the top of my head, though:

You'll notice how each scene advances the story, and the goal of the protag/protags - and how each scene moves. That's an important understanding: how a film moves, because each scene moves the story along, and has its own purpose, goal and intent.

You'll also notice how the original goal of the protag may change more than once. I just watched Sicario 2 the other night, and Matt's goal changes like four times, and so does Alejandro's. So you'll notice how a character can transform, and have what's known as a character arc. They might be different internally at the end than they were at the beginning, and you should be able to chart that change as it happens. They might even have to sacrifice something - external or internal - to gain at the end. Like an end of an innocence, or even an ignorance, you know? And that usually feeds into the theme or themes of the story.

You'll also notice how there may be a main story (A story), and a secondary story (B), and maybe even a C story. You'll notice how, in a great film, even in a good film, the A and B story converge in the climax.

You'll also notice how a film is broken up into sequences. Some films have anywhere from 4 - 10 sequences. Each sequence has its own intent.

You'll also notice how the stakes rise; how denial of intent increases tension; and how a protag can have external and internal conflicts that may prevent the protag from reaching their goal.

You'll also notice how an antagonist can thwart the goals of the protag, and how they can both even be similar in different ways.

You'll also notice how things that are ironic are usually involved in a payoff in the climax or at the end, and how foreshadowing through symbols or dialogues may be involved in the climax or end as well.

And you'll notice how purposeful the dialogue is. Some is very direct and literal, and some is indirect, metaphorical. Literal and direct text, and indirect subtext.

You'll also notice how the tone is consistent; how pacing is controlled, and how a writer's voice may be evident.

You'll also notice how you the reader/viewer becomes engaged in a story, because it keeps moving, and because it keeps you wondering what happens next. It keeps you on the edge of your seat kinda, and prevents you from wanting to leave. That's the direct opposite of a film that is predictable, and you can almost pay half-attention to it and still know what's gong on.

You'll also notice how the script is written in a very visual way, and how the writer minimizes the narrative usually to just what we see and what we hear.

Those are pretty important things to understand. All the books you mentioned are great books for writers, and you have a good base of information already under your belt. But grab a great script for a great film; hold that sucker in your lap while watching that film; and you'll better understand how that script is designed to do the things I mentioned above.

You'll also want to consider making a nice big chart of your story beats, sequences and scenes, and outlining your script as well. That's a great way to really nail down your story; help keep you focused on movement, plot twists and character transformations; and help keep your conflict rising, and even before you write a single word of it.

Peter and Kyle made some great observations, and I'm sure many others will, too. And I didn't invent any of these tips: these are some of the elements that are the basis of great dramatic structure and storytelling, and that can elevate a story to its fullest dramatic potential. They work for me, and they might work for you, too.

Former Cortez Hill resident here for many years, Marvin - San Diego proud! Best fortunes to you, Marvin!

EDITED TO ADD: You may also want to check out this forum topic about helpful resources for writers. Here's the link.

https://www.stage32.com/lounge/screenwriting/In-your-experience-as-as-sc...

Try reading, Writing down the Bones, by Natalie Goldberg to get your words flowing, Screenplay by Syd Field to structure your script, Making a good script great, by Linda Seger to help with the rewrite and a college Thesaurus in dictionary form in helping your words to become better. The Screenwriter's bible has some good info for your screenplay as well as the industry and what it wants.

Read a variety of screenplays. A lot of screenplays. Good, bad, and amazing scripts. See and study craft on the page, not just theory and analysis—the page. See how things are handled in actual practice. How setups and payoffs work. Note different writing styles and voice and approach. Pacing. I believe The Screenwriter’s Bible has already been mentioned. It’s a great reference book for any formatting questions that you might have. Good luck!

Got a 3 step plan for you:

1) Get a copy of The Screenwriter's Bible by David Trottier...Its an invaluable reference for correctly formatting individual elements within a screenplay.

2) Get/use screenwriting software Celtx, WriterDuet, Final Draft, whatever...Any of these will do line by line formatting of the screenplay, help with spelling and grammar, and make writing and editing a screenplay 110% easier.

3) Come up with a good idea and write....This seems to be the hardest part for most writers. You can spend years researching how to write a screenplay but you're really just procrastinating and avoiding writing anything. Sit down do a simple outline of the beginning, middle and end. Write a page or three each day until you've told the whole story, (It should be about 120 pages), DO NOT work on any other story until you are finished, then go back and edit cutting out about 10-15 unnecessary pages. And BAM, you're done.

BONUS) Get some HONEST feedback. Not from your parents or siblings. Real honest feedback from someone who doesn't mind hurting your feelings. Some contests provide this when you enter. Its a good way to find out if you have what it takes.

If you write 10 pages using my method, I'd be willing to read them and give you my honest opinion. No strings.

Awesome advice..

I recently did a Top Ten books for Writers video. Some very good works here on general storytelling and a few specifically for screenwriting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcXN3EnEhg8&t=38s

I'd wager that in San Diego you might be able to find a screenwriting class at a community college.

Reading screenplays that are in the same genre as I'm writing has helped me. I just finished a crime/drama and read a lot of screenplays in that genre.

Give me a shout if you'd like to discuss anything specific, Marvin. All the best with your writing.

Marvin: One of the best books to learn formatting is The Hollywood Standard by Christoper Riley. Excellent book.

And another 2nd cup of coffee thought... "Your Screenplay Sucks" by William Akers is one of the best books.

Anthony Moore and Phil Clark: that's very benevolent of you. You're good dudes!

Marvin: You can sit there and read dozens of books and hundreds of screenplays, and potentially fall into a trap at some point of becoming a really good reader but not really writing much. Follow Anthony's suggestion and start writing a page or a few a day as soon as you can. Even if they're not really great in the beginning, that's okay. Writing for most people is a multi-layered rewriting process. Some of us have a checkpoint system in our re-writing process, too, or utilize it as we go along. But if you write everyday for a defined (or non-defined) period of time, and know the key elements of dramatic structure and storytelling, the writing becomes more "automatic"; you develop an understanding in a deeper way; your skills improve as you put more time into it; and you'll have a chance at advancing and being able to compete against the best of the best of the best. Writing routines are pretty much common and universal for successful writers.

You might even notice that you write better in the morning, or at another time. You might notice that if you define your characters and create profiles for them, that it makes it easier to write dialogue because you understand them in a deeper way. You might find that it's easier to follow your outline and write from the beginning to the end, or that it might be easier to write scenes in a non-consecutive way. It's a process of discovery - what works best for you - and especially in the early years. Maximizing your discovery efforts and time is pretty crucial in those early stages as a writer.

Best fortunes to you, Marvin (and Anthony and Phil)!

Make a short film. Just two minutes, you and a friend. You’ll learn heaps about writing and it gives you a great sense of “I know what I am doing”.

Contact me, I have an ebook I can send you if you like.

Bill,

I took your advice. I read DIE HARD last night.

It is amazing how that simple script turned into a killer movie. That taught me one thing, not to try to make every scene the best scene ever written in the whole wide world.

The story drove forward relentlessly. The back stories were filled in a couple lines of dialogue, less than a minute in a scene.

Peter: Yeah...that practice really helped me become a much better writer. The first few times I did it...I was still kinda "not getting it" in that way that I was trying...in that "moving" sense. I was still kinda getting detoured in my established thinking ways, and on things like dialogue and characters, and the actual action in kinda a more singular way. (If that makes sense.)

But after a few times...and it takes me like ten hours or so to go through a film and script like that...but after a few times...all of a sudden it started to make sense to me in that way, and I started to "see the movement" on a page and in my head, and it started registering with me. My breakthrough moment happened with Hard Eight a while back, a smaller drama. I guess I had to turn it down a notch with a smaller film, now that I think about it, but what a great film and what a great script Hard Eight is. Thank you, P.T. Anderson!

It really helped me a lot, and I can't say enough good things about reading/viewing/understanding in that type of way. At least for me.

Best fortunes to you, Peter!

Marvin, everyone's inspirations and methods differ from writer to writer, and not all will work for everyone, of course, but I'll tell you what I do/did, and if there's any of it that works for you, I encourage you to use it, and if not, I encourage you to ignore all of it and try other things until you find what works best for you and helps to make you the best writer you can be.

I read as often as possible, often dependent on what I'm writing. I'll read a textbook of the style of the story I'm trying to tell, I'll read books about or by filmmakers, screenwriters, and even actors about what they did, and I'll read books about the subject matter I'm exploring for my script. For example, I was recently writing a low-budget script for minimal cast and locations, so I read Robert Rodriguez's "Rebel Without a Crew" for inspiration, and to see how he wrote and made his film, and how he changed the indie film scene with "El Mariachi." Some of my favorite "textbooks" were already mentioned above by others, but I also recommend checking out "Aristotle's Poetics for Screenwriters." It really tightened up my structure.

When I write, I do the first draft, and then I compare it to the beats in my outline and adjust the story where necessary for pacing. Then I re-read it, clean it up, and have my computer "read" it to me. When I've made the appropriate fixes, I print it out and read it/revise it/edit it on paper (I'm amazed at how many things I miss when I read it on the computer, and even when it reads it back to me). Then I transfer my corrections to the computer and it's ready for feedback. I'll give it to trusted friends/colleagues/professors/anyone great with story analysis and structure, and I take their notes and discern what makes my script stronger and what does not. Then comes a rewrite, and another pass through editors/proofreading/etc., and put it through the whole process again if necessary.

The whole process sounds very time consuming -- and it IS -- but I get better with every script, and they require fewer rewrites with each one. You'll really get a feel for what you're doing with each one, you'll find your style, and you'll get faster -- everything will flow naturally.

As others have mentioned in this thread, I also suggest exploring what others are writing, and what people are buying. Other scripts are a great resource to see what's worked before and are a great educational resource for formatting and structure, especially the ones that relate to the scripts you're personally writing.

My advice is to take chances. Be bold. Not just for boldness sake, but to explore your thoughts, ideas, passions, and anything important to you, without worrying about whether or not people will like it. Make mistakes. Learn how to fix them. Take rough criticism as it comes, because it's a harsh industry, but learn to not let it affect your view of yourself as an artist. With hard work, great criticisms will come, too, so celebrate them when they do. Not every script is going to please everybody, but that doesn't make you any less of a creator. I only put this in here because writers can be discouraged when running this particular marathon -- myself included -- but that's no reason to stop running it. There is a finish line (many in fact), so keep writing, and be sure to update us on your progress as it comes, eh?

Best of luck, Marvin!

– J

There are many books. But you should also read screenplays for that matter: https://www.scriptslug.com/ enjoy.

I've read most of those ..and a number of others...I would recommend Emmanuel Oberg's Screenwriting Unchained. He's got some great ideas about determining what kind of story you have...character plot or theme driven..then working from there according to your story type. I've found it has really reframed my writing approach..less formula and more feeling for where you are in the story.

Save the cat was my favorite so far, I have read both...the screenwriters bible by trotter, the way of the story. the writers journey.

Linda Seager's Making a good Script, Great, good for rewriting. Syd Field's, Screenplay, shows how to structure your scripts and Natalie Wood's Writing down the Bones, shows how to get your words going. Then get some screenplays to see and feel how a screenplay is written out.

Read screenplays. Then read some more.

For non linear or tandem multiple storylines Linda Aronson The 21st Century Screenplay. For scripting in general @intothestory.com has free downloadable pdfs from Scott Myers. He updates his pdf system with new stuff and has blogs. I studied in person with him but still check to see if he got any new freebies online.

I would move to LA, rent a cheap room and hustle for a tv show PA job, or work at an agency. Do more than write. Show up every day, learn how to make stuff w/ working people, a steady paycheck.

Deb's right - The 21st Century Screenplay is great. Dan's advice is solid. If you want to learn to sail a boat, get on a boat and sail. Like in Quiz Show - if you want to learn to be a knight, go off and act like a Knight.

Put your work in the hands of people who will offer critical feedback. Since movie-making is a collaborative process, you need to get used to incorporating the input and criticism of others. Even if your screenplay is stunning, lot of people will end up having a say in crafting the final story.