Screenwriting : Script Analysis problem by Shiva Rodriguez

Unfortunately, this type of thing is not uncommon. If it bothers you enough, send a detailed complaint to the contest's director. If it's one of the more legit contests you ought to hear back. Otherwise, you may wish to vet the contests closely in future. There is a lot of info online. There are a lot of contests not worth entering.

Sadly, what you describe is far to common. We can argue the likely causes all we want - but that ain't about to change nothin'. The screenwriting learning process involves learning from our mistakes - you've just learned something, haven't you?

Ask for your money back. Point out that the reader did not read the work. Which has two impacts, 1) the contest is rigged (as not all entries are assessed or 2) it is a lottery and has no value.

If they hesitate tell them you will name them on ever forum and complaint to Filmfreeway or whatever service they use.

If you're looking for decent feedback don't do it via a submission to a competition. When you think about it, a competition reader has a set timeframe to get through all their scripts so it's understandable that they will use a fill-in-the-blanks template and cut corners where they can. I think if you want quality feedback then you need to find someone you trust, regardless of whether it's free or paid. I once received a script which was influenced by a particular Ayn Rand story, so in order to get a better understanding, I found and read the short story before reading the script and giving my feedback.

I've judged screenwriting competitions before and know that it is a strain, but it's not an excuse to slack off on a service paid extra for. (If anything, you'd think they'd actually read those!)

I've also entered dozens of competitions to get an idea of how a script will go over with people who don't know me since half the time I plan to just produce them myself. I've just never seen such a blatant example of this, and I'm sad to learn that it is very common. No idea how I've managed not to run across this before.

I have very little luck with getting people to critique my work. Either they never get around to reading it, or if they do they will be afraid to hurt my feelings if they don't like something. It's like pulling teeth to get an honest criticism sometimes.

that happened to me. $300 bucks and the guy did NOT read the script and tried to give us notes. NOT GOOD!

Unfortunately there are more crooks and people calling themselves experts than there are legitimate people giving feedback. One of the reasons I will never pay for feedback.

Kay Luke, I think, for a lot of people, including me, it is more of a "better than nothing" type of thing and as you rightly point out "not much better than nothing" and I had suspected as much after a few rounds down that path, but I remember the simple lack of any qualified source of script feedback. I know folks suggest making connections and there are several on here that I would value their input on my work, but they are busy and valuable contacts. At least paying for notes doesn't alienate anyone.

I am not arguing for paying for notes, I believe your advice is absolutely correct. But, you are not here to read our scripts and neither are many who are very good writers themselves, I know, I read people's work here and know who is doing some excellent work. I am willing to read and help, in fact I just did that a minute ago. It's just sort of a tight spot, asking for help all the time isn't very becoming.

A lot of artists forget that they are surrounded by a “Market” of groups or individuals who make money from giving advice on their insecurities. I prefer to pay for pitching rather than a reader giving advice. A straight yes or no, rather than condescending, meaningless banter.

Years back I was a 'Reader'; most of my clients were boutique agencies and a few modest studios. THEY were my clients, I owed my allegiance to them; NOT to the writers. My clients paid me for my services, the writers did not. Today everyone seems to looking for 'free' services. That wasn't the case a little while back, what's changed?

When you submit to a contest, nobody is reading your script. Not beyond 10 pages if that. Just forget it. If you're paying for coverage or notes, at best, they are skimming through it.

It’s like Mark Twain said, “If you loan a man $20 and never see him again, it’s for the better.” Count this one as a loss and move on. All that time you spend plotting retribution could be spent plotting a story.

Kay Luke, I was a agreeing with you. I am a professional writer, novels mostly, because I can sell them, still a challenge at times, because they are largely literary fiction, often set in the West.

As much as I have learned about screenwriting and even having success there with talent attached for a while as I explained in an earlier post, you have to admit it's a tough nut to crack. It's tough to get reliable information. I mean until you beat your head against the wall long enough and hard enough, you still don't know for sure if it is your work, the subject matter, the format, or not having run into the right person, yet.

I am confident in my ability or I wouldn't even be here, I've sold so many things, play, had a screenplay optioned, my third novel is coming out in 2020, magazine articles, etc, but, until I put a check in the bank on a screenplay, I won't consider that I know anything about it for sure. At least with the novels, I can look at reader reviews on Amazon.

my problem with paying for feedback is the same I have with casting director workshops as an actor: They take your time and money and don't open a single god-damned door for you in the industry. It keeps you last in line because you are always auditioning, always doing rewrites on your work FOR FREE!) Actors and writers should NOT have to PAY to have their work looked at. Period.

I had the same thing happen to me. I entered a contest and payed extra for feedback and initially took it really hard until my girlfriend noticed that the response was most lightly a copy/paste with blanks filled in where needed. Then when I started thinking about it what was written could be said of any screenplay and the details could be found just by skipping through.

But what really ticked me off was that I knew my screenplay was a little longer than industry standard and I write that off to the fact that I am not a screenwriter and I don't know a lot about screenwriting but the page length was so of that you could not make that mistake. I mean yes one out of three numbers could be miss typed or maybe two of the numbers could be flipped but to have all three numbers wrong was a clear indication that there was something fishy going on.

And I do take feedback and people have been surprised how well I've always responded to feedback which they say is out of my character but I do have a really good idea on when the feedback is constructive or when it's not.

Unfortunately there's not much I can do about it but it does tick me of because I could have asked my kid nephew to give me the same kind of "feedback" and spent the money paying my phone bill or taking my girlfriend out for dinner in staid.

Stuff like this just pisses me off!

Do write if you ever figure out what to do about it.

Totally understand your dilemma, Shiva Rodriguez. I'm Shawn, producer, actor, screenwriter - writing on assignment for T.J. Scott. I'm a SCREENWRITING U PRO SERIES grad who sat with Syd Field for coverage and studied with Scott Meyers. If you'd like, I'll look at your first ten pages. Feedback compliments of Stage32. Post a link or shoot me a link or pdf at theshawnspeake@gmail.com. Put STAGE32 on the subject. Look forward to checking out your style. Happy Holidays, everyone:)

My man, Dan MaxXx ! Happy Holidays, bro. I'm finally polishing MAD MOUNTAIN MASSACRE... would you give a brother a look sometime in January before I shoot it to Coach Danny Manus. Of course, I'm always here for U!

Shawn Speake sure, Boss. Send MMM

There are too many fraudsters in the business. I personally experienced this with a member of Stage 32! His name is not worth mentioning.

It's like in sports, if nobody wants you as a player then start practicing coaching!

I recommend you John Fahy, he is a member of Stage 32. Mr. Fahy has serious references and he is a top professional.

As you've already suspected, a complaint will sound like sour grapes. I'm sure this happens a lot.

I feel like what's being left out here is the art of discerning feedback. An art within itself. Ego is not our amigo in this department my friends. Don't' hate a reader didn't understand. Think about how to put everyone on the same page. Make it make sense. I look for set-up/pay-off components because every beat in a script, for the most part, should be a setup or payoff. If reader says they don't get a 'beat" then I didn't write that beat 'loud enough' - there was too much subtext. And as much as I believe getting coverage from a pro coach is crucial. I go to Danny Manus when I'm ready. Here lately, I CAN'T GET ANYTHING PAST YOU GUYS. You're really good. I believe everyone on this thread is capable of giving me some type of valid feedback on any script simply because we can all read. Hope this helps. Take what you like, funk the rest. :) Happy New Year!

I have never experienced this issue. I'd email the contest with the complaint, give them the reader number (if there was one) and be detailed about the experience. If you don't hear back, leave negative feedback on their festival page (if you went through FilmFreeway). I recommend Blue Cat's screenplay contest. They give you feedback FREE and they allow you to revise and resubmit to their contest. You do have to pay a resubmit fee but you can choose the same reader each time which is helpful or you can request a new one.

Doug Nelson I think people are looking for free services because the paid have no value, they are crap.

I have seen it here. People ask the most fundamental questions, making dumb statements, then telling everyone they are a script consultant.

If the paid version of something is garbage, I’ll use the free one.

The other issue is using the word Analysis in context of Art. They do that to give themselves credibility. Who gets a higher score Jackson Pollack or Picasso. Art is subjective and they try to make it objective. They try to make it a measurable thing as they are incapable of adding value by using artistic merit.

Sorry to insult people here, some I hold in fond regard. But this is an industry to frauds and fakes.

"The paid have no value, they are crap". That is an absolute garbage statement, Craig. I understand that is your opinion but your opinion is wildly inaccurate, absurd and obviously ill-informed and I have to say, I take offence to it. How can you make a general statement like that? People are looking for free feedback because know-nothing amateurs are offering free feedback. If people want value feedback then they should do their research and not put down what they don't know.

Craig & Pierre; I have to agree and disagree with you each. I can't agree that All paid critique is crap but I do agree with you in that I think a LOT is crap. I do know of a few truly Professionals offering very sound and valuable critique for a price. I can't say whether that 'price' is reasonable or not.

I get the feeling that many/majority of those asking 'dumb' questions are new to the screenwriting concept and as yet have little/no understanding of the daunting learning curve they are facing. I suspect that many are just church-mouse poor and 'free' is all they can afford. Going from being a 'starry-eyed' wannabe to a full-blown professional filmmaker is a long, hard trip that requires much education along the way. Pay for your education by attending one of the premier film schools; buy & read a lot of books, try your hand at screenwriting and pay (maybe overpay) some professional to critique your stuff. It doesn't matter how you get the education - it's gonna cost you something. What's your career worth to you?

Thank "RB" for having this open to one & all forum where we can all go to enhance our education for free.

Pierre Langenegger I did mention I am found of many people that do this. That was aimed at you. And yes, it may be a shitty thing to say.

But it is what I believe. You are an honest and thoughtful person from what I know of you. But the industry is horrible. Why not do like Doug and educate? Or like I do and blog.

Adding money to anything makes me suspicious.