Screenwriting : What does this mean exactly? by Christine Capone

It’s a horrid feeling not to see your name on the list but it is what it is. Tomorrow is another day. I try and rework on my script when I get a rejection

Neha it totally is! It's also discouraging which then makes me question everything. I'm wondering if it's even worth going into competitions. They put me 10 steps behind and then I have to pick myself up again. I think I'll just start pitching and forget the comps for a while.

Christine Capone that is certainly a part of the journey I imagine for most if not all of us; I just completed writing my seventh feature script and I realize it may never see any daylight, I love it and I think it's been a creative advance for me but I realize that there are SO MANY VARIABLES to which a reader will subject a script when they set eyes on it.

I've been a visual artist for two decades and I think that for art of any form, as much as we create academic and technical criteria, in fact quality and the perception of quality is completely subjective; your script could be spectacular in every way and still not generate a buzz from any one specific reader;

But you are here because you're creative, talented and persistent, so good for you for putting your power and energy out there, continue to be unstoppable and do it for YOU, congratulations on your work and efforts and best wishes for an amazing year ahead !!

Hi Christine, I have probably entered more competitions than most anyone... I have a dozen scripts out there and I've seen some odd stuff... scripts that get blasted in one competition are finalists in another (with no rewrites). I think there is no empirical "truth" to a contest placement, rather, it is the subjective opinion of a reader (or readers) who may or may not connect with your material, no matter how well written. I'm sure there is a "baseline" of competence that would weed out things with horrible spelling, format or unhinged story-lines,. But I wouldn't get too caught up (though I certainly did when I started) with the results of any one competition! If they give you specific feedback you find helpful, great. If they tell you stuff that doesn't feel relevant to you, ignore it and move on.

May this year got an best script recognition for one of my features I first wrote in 2008....it is some 7-8 draft in, including the expanding from short to feature...so it takes time, effort, knowledge...

thanks Daniel for the words of encouragement! I'll keep plugging along.

It doesn't mean anything. Even most scripts that win never see the light of day and neither do the screenwriters that win them. Keep writing screenplays because you love writing them.

Kiril it def. takes time, effort and knowledge. I've done all of that so that's why it can be disappointing.

Dan, so true.. I see the same script from this one person advance every year. If it's that good, then why hasn't he sold it yet?

It's more there are so many scripts out there to compete with. Way more than can be sold. Selling it or winning a competition is all about finding the right reader/buyer and then it will click. It takes time, but definitely keep going!!

I would focus on winning over peers/filmmakers than jpeg awards. The endgame is paychecks/jobs.

It's kind of hard because I won my first competition and had the unusual situation of having all three of my short scripts make the cut. The next year I placed at Screamfestla top five and got into the room with Stan Winston. I lost and then that was the last time I placed. I have kind of stopped entering competitions and am now more focused on wanting to just get a job. Just keep writing. There are so many stories: Zach Galafinakas (screwed up the spelling) actually made it to table reads at Saturday Night Live and everything he wrote was rejected. Stephen King tacked every rejection notice on the wall where he could see them. I think he took it as a badge of honor. It seems like at Stage 32 you have a better chance of getting your foot in the door. I was also a judge at a festival and there can be burnout from reading so much bad stuff. So you may have something but it was read at midnight and the person was suffering from burnout. Keep going Christine. Your name sake means you have better odds than not.

Christine Capone, you can know that you're at that point (the final draft) when you've received feedback, you've rewritten the script, and you feel the script can't be improved anymore. That being said, your script might be a final draft, but screenwriting is subjective (as others have pointed out in the comments). Don't dwell on it. There might be a home for your script somewhere else other than a script contest.

I've been stabbed in the gut so many times I might as well be a victim in a Scream movie

Don't let it deter you! You keep pushing through and plugging away. I've been in the same boat and yeah, it sucks but where one competition passes, another doesn't. I actually had a very funny scenario happen recently where I submitted my script to a competition that provided notes. I received the notes back within days and the reader essentially took a flame thrower to my script, I was so defeated but then fast forward about a month later that same competition awarded my script as a SEMI-Finalist! Goes to show, you can't really put too much stock in "readers" or "competitions". That doesn't mean you disregard insight on how to improve. I believe our stuff always has room to improve, but at the end of the day you have to believe in your work and keep pressing in.

Christine Capone, your screenplay could be in the best possible shape, and it could still be rejected by a lot of competitions. Different competitions have different priorities, tastes, and objectives. Some comps merely want the most entertaining scripts possible. Some want scripts they feel they could pitch to their sponsors/partners. Some want really weird or auteur scripts. Some want scripts that mirror the rules in Robert McKee's "Story".

The readers they bring on make a difference as well. Where do the comps find their readers? Are they film production student's, film studies students, English majors, industry professionals, aspiring screenwriters, community volunteers, genre fans, and the list goes on. Readers from different backgrounds, will have different ideas of what makes a good screenplay. What one reader sees as genius, another will see as a complete hack-job.

I found that comps with "film lover" volunteers as readers, seemed to value my screenplays the most. I write for a general audience, and members of a general audience seem to like my writing. Industry "scholars" can't stand me; I don't conform to their rules. I read scripts that did well in "career development" competitions, and I didn't find their writing to be all that spectacular.

I wish I had a better answer for you. Just beware, some "industry professionals" will grind you to dust, pushing feedback that will make your script more appealing to themselves, but not better overall. If you listen to the wrong people, your scripts could get worse with each draft.

Christine - No, you're not missing anything except failure to understand who you're dealing with - you're dealing with amateur readers that can't tell the difference between a 'good' script or a 'bad' script. I researched this a few years back when I was more involved in Festivals. Like anything, there are a few good ones among a sea of junk.

I think a lot of us have/had this issue of using competitions as a metric because it's the easiest or most convenient entry point. But it's just a microcosm of the subjective nature of the industry as a whole.

In all likelihood one person read your script, scored it based on that specific competition's guidelines, and it didn't make the twenty percent cutoff for the quarterfinals. It doesn't mean it's bad by any means. You have to take those "No placements" with a grain of salt and move on/explore other avenues to get your script out.

I know it's discouraging, but at the end of the day it's about your own personal confidence and objectivity in regard to your screenplay. You have to put it out, it's going to get passed on, and you have to keep your feet moving. You can only do that if you believe in the work.

I had a comedy script that didn't make it out of the first round of Austin, but has been optioned twice. So, one, you don't have any control over anyone else's opinion. But two, if your script can place semifinals, you know it's a very good read. Finalists and winners are not only good reads, they read like they'd make good movies.

Thanks everyone. These comments help out a lot. I'm not feeling sorry for myself but it definitely helps to read these comments and know that what I'm feeling is normal and that I'm not alone. This is definitely a tough industry to break into. Maybe I should have become an astronaut or something! haha

You shouldn't use your the result of subjective competition to validate the quality of your screenplay.

One thing that you can do is send out your work to friends, as well as get coverage to gauge the current status. You'll now by the feedback if your work is hitting the right notes.

Good luck.

Christine Capone this is a very important topic to discuss as it stops many writers from reaching their full potential. Feedback, wether from competitions or coverage, is meant to improve your scripts. Even if your script is poorly written in one person's eyes, doesn't mean it won't appeal to someone else. Writing a script takes a lot of time, thus a first draft is an achievement in itself.

The way I look at feedback is to compare it to my vision for the story. You have an idea of what you want to say and why, so when looking at feedback, you should think to yourself if it improves the script to reach that vision or not. Ultimately it is up to you to think which pieces of feedback are good or not.

Regardless of all that, a script is ready when you believe you've achieved that vision. It's about showcasing your work, and providing a portfolio that defines you. Getting good script coverage is important but equally important is finding likeminded people who also are progressing in their screenwriting journey. Joining a writers group is really beneficial and can help you get more feedback on your scripts in more relaxed environment. Don't worry about it too much. Continue writing, rewriting and enjoy the journey.

kudos for having the courage to enter, I did two and decided not for me for now...

Lots of good scripts do not place in competitions. Also, competition wins don't mean much in real life.

I subscribe to ISA for the gigs they post, but they also give me free competition entries sometimes. So when I don't have to pay, I submit something. Recently, one of my scripts actually placed (but did not advance) in a competition. What does it mean? The intern tasked with reading the piles liked the first 10 pages.

The most useful feedback so far, to me anyway, has been from a fellow screenwriter and a director friend. Both were kind enough to read and provide intelligent notes.

if u dont advance in 1 contest, it means nothing. if you don't advance in ANY contest, then it means your script likely isn't good enough yet. Get some Professional notes, find and fix the problem areas, and try again.

You know how there are competition cooks, like the people we see on TV, and then are great chefs.

Your screenplay may not be the type of things that does well in a competition. I don’t enter. I did when I first started. I would get comments about how my characters didn’t grow, or how after the final challenge the hero needs to triumph. That when I realised my work was being read by robots that stick to formula and frameworks. They wouldn’t know good work if it smacked them in the face. I am not saying my work is amazing. But they missed the bad stuff and only saw how I didn’t follow their formula.

I would echo what this judge or reader said. I recently made it to the finalist level with one of my TV pilot scripts for a WGA competition. Didn't win, but that was two years of workshopping, table reading, and rewrites just to get to that point. Approximately 5-6 drafts, and A LOT of rejection letters along the way. Some of it is also the timing of your story. When Spike Lee made Chi-Raq in 2015, it was ahead of its time. The audience didn't know how to receive it. But as a story, it's brilliant. Today, with everything that's going on with women not being able to have autonomy over their own bodies - that film would do a lot better. So the point I'm making is maybe you have a great script, but the reader or judge can't see the big picture. Or maybe it just needs another pass. I hope whatever it is you're writing is something you love. Good luck!

Stay encouraged!

That's a great way to look at feedback, Marvin. "The way I look at feedback is to compare it to my vision for the story. You have an idea of what you want to say and why, so when looking at feedback, you should think to yourself if it improves the script to reach that vision or not."

I just looked at your profile, and it says you were a QF at Page, and that's nothing to sneeze at. For starters, there are many variables with readers at festivals and contests, and I wouldn't spend much time sweating it unless the screenplay doesn't place in several competitions.

It's really not a matter of going "wrong." Readers from reputable contests are well-vetted, and some contests actually test their readers before hiring. One draft of your script may not get accepted, the same draft could win another contest. It's all subjective, and there are a lot of factors, especially if it's a genre script.

As far as knowing if you're "at that point," it's honestly a gut call, and it could change. You could think that you were done until you get a note that opens up a plethora of ideas. No script is done 'till the final edit of the film, and even then some filmmakers still change it (George Lucas and Oliver Stone being two).

When getting a note (be it coverage or contest feedback), ask "does this note resonate with me? Ultimately, it's your story and if the note doesn't help the story you're telling, then don't worry about it. This is your story (unless it's a story you've been hired to write, then it's a different game) and you should do what's best for your story.

Finally, remember - competitions are one of the tools on your screenwriting path. You might never win a contest and query and then get representation or get it made. You might win a contest and have that be the sample that gets you repped or your first job. You might win and then query. The important thing is to keep writing.

Great info, thanks Heather! I know that a script is never really done, like you stated. It's funny though, I can see where I went wrong after I have submitted into contests but of course, it's too late to make the changes. So since May, I think I reworked my script five times! Now I'm at a point where I don't even want to look at it but I'm sure I'll revisit it after I get over the rejection and have a clear head. What I usually do is get script coverage if I don't place. I find that to be very helpful.

For a start, that's quite well delivered feedback. The insight and compassion is nice and clear.

What they are saying is fairly truthful, I believe, but they haven't mentioned the elusive aspect of knowing how far along a script actually is. Because people work differently, and stories vary widely in how they are broken and shaped, it's fair they didn't expand on that part.

We never know for sure how far along our stories are, but essentially it's going to require objective distance. Time away from it, or emotional distance, or practical exposure to the subject matter etc. all give you a better position to view the script as an audience member would, and from there you can see where it sits.

Figuring out how much more work needs to be done is tricky, but I tend to oscillate between structural analyses to see all the various facets (plot, character arc, theme, symbols, pacing etc) which lets you know what's lacking or causing issues and bouncing it off other people of all stripes, whether they know dick about writing/story or not. Look for emotional responses and curiosity specifically. When people don't respond with much at all, or simply compliment the idea of a finished script, you know you've a lot more work to do. But when you get a lot of questions about what happens next, or why characters do this or that etc, then you've got something that is resonating with the audience and taking up space in their brain.

From that place, you can only really trust yourself if you're being honest, about your process and the intent, but I always sit with it and think about what else I could do? What else could tighten the story, what else could make it pop, go funnier, darker, stranger, faster, slower, etc etc.?

Re-writing does require brutal honesty of course, mainly with yourself. If you lie to yourself and force things in that are superficially ticking a box, you've tied your shoelaces together before a jog. Same goes with audience responsiveness. Any good script does a multitude of things that evoke a multitude of responses, so if you play favourites and focus too much on getting a small number of those, that's another trap. e.g. "I want to make the audience cry here, and I did, my drama works!" "No, sorry, you got them crying there, but you didn't make them smile here, or you left that sadness there, and never rebuilt that tension, and the characters didn't change as a result of that sadness..."

TL;DR - Honesty and Objectivity is what I consider the path to a better understanding of where a script is on its path to final draft.

As others mentioned, contests are subjective. But, keep in mind, that writing can be a long iterative process. I know with my work that I might finish a script, redraft it a few times, and feel it's "final". But, if I leave it sitting for a few weeks or months and come back to it, I might rework it significantly or even look back on it and wonder "What was I thinking??" A final, contest-ready draft is really just the best you can do at any moment in time.

I do the same thing, Randy. "...leave it sitting for a few weeks or months and come back to it, I might rework it significantly or even look back on it and wonder 'What was I thinking??'" :)

Hi Christine Capone. The same thing happened to me. I entered 2 competitions but asked for feedback in one of them. Even though the feedback was brief, I took something out of it that was useful for the rewriting. I don't think I'll enter any contests in the near future if not for the feedback and even then you have to know if you are getting it from a judge or anyone else. I won't lie and say it didn't hurt... it did! But I am now looking at competitions from a different perspective.