I know we talk all the time here about the Writers' Room, but I need to talk about the Writers' Room some more! I went to my first Coverage Report session hosted by @Kay Ross, and I'm so mad at myself for putting off going for so long. The subject matter of the script was extremely topical and could easily become a bigger political debate, but everyone in that group was focused on the truth of the story, what would make the story better, and what would make the writer's message better. And the advice was so good!!! I talk with a lot of writers about how to create a "safe space," and this was such a great example of how it can be done.
I would love to know where do you go for notes on your scripts and what do you think makes a good note-giver?
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Well, I'm writing my first script for a short and I'm a NEWBIE. (Which is Rated R here, I know.) I'm developing a technique somewhat on the fly where I put two pictures next to each other sort of related to the topic I want to write about and wait for the new third effect - an idea, or rush of ideas, or dialogue, or whatever - to pop into my mind.
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Interesting, Ishmael Amman. Good luck! Would love to hear how it turns out :)
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I've been at The Coverage Report once or twice, Emily J. It was great! I plan to attend more often.
I get feedback from a few trusted people, script exchanges with writers on Stage 32, and paid feedback.
What makes a good note-giver?
#1) Someone who has written a lot of scripts, read a lot of scripts, and knows screenplay structure and storytelling.
#2) Someone who can spot issues in scripts but also offer suggestions on how to fix those issues
#3) Someone who's honest in their feedback
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The Tennessee Screenwriters’ Association has a weekly meeting of wonderful people who help one another with their scripts.
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Wendy Weising That's awesome!
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Maurice Vaughan Thanks. Didn't know what a note-giver was.
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Anywhere I can find them for free...that way I get BS, no one's left short...Many scriptwriting sites give fair comments on your script post, plus you got eyes on the script...and wanna be discovered, eyeing is everything...
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I ask for notes from filmmakers, VFX artists, post production editor, and agent. Ppl with skin in the game.
They all know how to make movies physically and they know mechanics of storytelling, and they never know if the paper script will be a bad, good or great movie .
Bad note givers talk about marketing and format :)
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You're welcome, Amman.
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"Bad note givers talk about marketing and format." If a note-giver only talks about marketing and format, then yes, I agree with you, Dan M. If he or she adds marketing and format onto the notes, that can help. I give suggestions on format if the script is formatted incorrectly. If I see formatting issues in a script, I can't stay quiet about it.
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Personally, I used to write non-fiction historical journal articles before jumping into screenplays. What’s worked so far (for me) is to have identified a few individuals in my circle of friends who love to read. I know they’re well-read and understand the basics of what works in a story. Secondly, for fiction, I have a female friend who checks my female characters. Often, she’ll say something like, “I don’t know any girl/woman who talks about that,” etc. So, have someone you trust from a different gender/social group, you can trust review it. Lastly, in terms of screenwriting, it’s less about the mechanics (did you use V.O. vs. O.S.?) and more about the story structure, characters, and dialogue. Remember, if you sell a screenplay, there will be a TON of edits. Then there is a shooting script with scene numbers and camera direction, etc. and those are turned into: “white,” “blue,” “green,” “golden rod,” etc. versions. Good luck all!
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Maurice Vaughan i was a reader and we never discussed formatting, none of the bosses cared about that; i guess everyone on my side (production company readers) assumed ppl submitting (writers and reps) know formatting; it was never a conversation. Kinda like pro basketball; every pro player should know to dribble a ball for every two steps :)
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Maurice Vaughan. Dan M will correct me if I am wrong but I believe he is talking about notes people in the industry get on screenplays. They wouldn’t include formatting issues they saw in a screenplay. You are talking about coverage aspiring screenwriters are getting so they could include things like formatting issues because they are trying to help a screenwriter improve their screenplay. Two different things with different goals in mind.
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The Dans have both given you some pretty solid incite. When I was reading in the pro arena, script format was seldom an issue. In the wide world of wannabes, it's often a different matter. The atrocious formatting becomes so overwhelming that finding/following a storyline becomes nearly impossible.
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I see, Dan Guardino. Thanks for explaining. Thanks, Dan MaxXx and Doug.
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"...I have a female friend who checks my female characters." That's a great idea, Derek C. Block.
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A professional writer has become one by knowing the craft and knowing how to use it to keep the pages turning, so a producer isn't going to pick apart formatting. Note services or contests, or those who give notes as part of their job, always include formatting and the reasoning is varied; most newer screenwriters are horrible at it, and it's the one thing that can easily put you on the same level as a pro. Readers and reps looking for writers are inundated with scripts to read, so if they get one loaded with typos and not up to industry standards it makes a super easy "no," because if the writer can't be bothered, why should they? They have plenty in the pile that do care to take the time to get it right. And the last reason is that the services and pro-note givers have a mandate to address a variety of categories and some iteration of presentation or formatting is always a part of that mandate. Lastly, I will say that when the director does their pass they almost always point these things out, and certainly a line producer will.
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Maurice, I'm not that tech-savy, but my son says the pictures are on FaceBook. Those pictures are from Century Lodge in Canada. I'm the guy with gray hair. The balding guy is my old high school buddy. We've known each other since we were 10 years old.
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I don’t go anywhere for “notes”. I give my stories to people that I feel would be my target audience, the stories first fans I guess.
I will write it, rewrite it. Have it read to me by readthrough.com etc. Then when it is as good a document as I can make it. I send it to the people I think would like to read it. They know that are getting this sneak peak as long as they tell me honestly what they think.
What I am after is how they feel. After that is my aim. To make the audience feel something. Entertained, joy, sadness, anything.
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"Too bad we can't do trailers for scripts." - THE FAR SIDE
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Thanks, Eric, but I don't have Facebook. I deleted my page years ago. I mainly use Stage 32, Twitter, and Clubhouse.
"Those pictures are from Century Lodge in Canada. I'm the guy with gray hair. The balding guy is my old high school buddy. We've known each other since we were 10 years old." Sounds like a movie!
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"Too bad we can't do trailers for scripts." Why not, Amman?
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Ishmael Amman @maurice - you actually kind of can -- a logline is essentially a written commercial and a proof of concept would be a filmed one!
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Maurice Vaughan Great question!! Maybe folks can answer that. Emily J "I wonder if there are log line directors." - THE FAR SIDE
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That's a great point, Emily J. Also, when I outline a script, I visualize a trailer. I do that so I can think of scenes for the script.
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interesting Maurice. I never visualise a trailer myself. I'm very basic with my marketing aptitude, picked up a few skills here and there. But when I outline a script I already have many scenes and characters and events in my head. Mostly small stories that all interlink. the true depth of plot comes to me towards the end of rewriting. - funnily enough usually at the time I write the cover letter/synopsis. Because I kick out my imaginative brain and my editing brain and my review brain kicks in. it's funny we hear about the writer's editor vs creator brain, but we rarely talk about the writer's third brain - reviewer which is as important because that's how you figure out what it's really about and tell people about it.
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Ishmael Amman what do you mean? Like loglines that describe the kind of director they are? Or, directors that pick projects based on the logline? Both are probably things directors do
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Emily J I meant turning the logline into a 30 second - 45 second micro-film.
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Polydina Flynt Editor brain, creator brain, Reviewer brain. They all seem connected to the Text, Context, and Subtext of a script. You should watch the New Zealand Professor Rod Blackhirsts take on these 3 on youtube,
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"the true depth of plot comes to me towards the end of rewriting. - funnily enough usually at the time I write the cover letter/synopsis." I do something similar, Polydina Flynt. When I'm making a pitch deck, 2-page pitch, query letter, etc., sometimes I start understanding my story better and I'll end up rewriting the script.
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"I meant turning the logline into a 30 second - 45 second micro-film." I think that's what a proof-of-concept is, Ishmael Amman.
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Amman I've made a note to look up the video of Rod Blackhirst, thanks for the rec.
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Maurice I totally know what you mean, it's weird but it's a good weird.
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Maurice Vaughan I didn't know THAT! So, what exactly is being proved?
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Ishmael Amman, a proof-of-concept is like a micro-budget short film that a filmmaker makes which: #1) Shows production companies, investors, studios, etc. what the movie's premiere is, #2) Shows what the feature-length film will look like/the tone of the feature-length movie, #3) Highlights the important elements of the movie, and #4) Showcases what the filmmaker's production team can do/their skills.
A proof-of-concept is usually longer than 30-45 seconds though.
Sometimes a proof-of-concept is just a scene.
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Maurice Vaughan Probably better to do it for a synopsis instead of the log line.
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The Writers Room on my To do List.