Screenwriting : Don’t expect a pat on the back! by Phillip E. Hardy, Prolifique

I always tell a person "thanks" or "thank you" after they give me notes, even if I don't agree with the notes. That person took time to read my script and give notes, so I can at least say "thanks" or "thank you." Sometimes I send a follow-up email or message letting the reader know my script got requested, and I thank them again because their notes might've helped me get the request.

Ya, I don't read 'screenwriter's' stuff no more. Some get upset with that too.

You need to take it easy when beginners roar at you like that... Some harsh truths are fucking upsetting to receive.

I remember some days back, in the beginning, I nearly said to someone who was really helping that she hates me.

I awe her some apology for not requesting notes after some truths she said to me.

But me, I hardly give notes... I hate crushing people's spirits.

"I hate crushing people's spirits." So do I, Felix Agyeman Boahen, but I think we can give constructive feedback without crushing people's spirits. One way to avoid crushing people's spirits is to offer suggestions to issues that we see in people's scripts. That will soften the blows while helping them make their scripts better.

Another way to avoid crushing people's spirits is doing what Karen "Kay" Ross calls the "Positivity Sandwich" (tell the writer something positive about their script, then give constructive feedback, then something positive, then constructive feedback -- like layers on a sandwich).

Yh, Maurice I think that will help...

How's your writing, buddy??? It's been long

My writing's going great, Felix Agyeman Boahen. Thanks for asking. I'm doing November Write Club this year (https://www.stage32.com/blog/join-us-for-the-8th-annual-november-write-c...). My main goal is to finish a feature script, and my second goal is to finish a writing job. How's your writing going?

Maurice: Killing two birdies with one script. Good move! What kind of job? Is it a spec or write-to-hire thingy?

That's some great goals, Maurice... Keep working hard.

Writing is good here... On with some assignments (TV and some features)... Trying to push myself up forward.

I've had the same experience more than once. A newbie write asks me for notes, and even with the warning that I give "honest" reviews, the writer still gets mad when I tell them the truth in my opinion. Once, I even had a whole writer's group mad at me because I informed the writer that they couldn't use other people's intellectual property and that the corporation who owned the rights would never read, much less buy, the script.

Anthony: Right on the money, sir. What they don't know (the truth) won't hurt them.

My worst person of all time was last year around Christmas. He first sent me several unsolicited emails to read his political screenplay, and I told him I wasn't interested. Then he finally offered to pay me, and I explicitly warned him that I give extremely direct feedback. I gave him an excellent rate for the read and evaluation, and though the writer was very bright and had an excellent vocabulary, his script was an absolute disaster.

To support my assessment, I provided 3 pages of detailed notes identifying the problems and offering suggestions on what he could do to improve the work. The guy sent me several whiny emails questioning how I could render such opinions. After a day or two, I refunded him his money for my ten hours of work, though he never asked me to do so. Then he had the nerve to say because of my integrity, he would consider sending me more work. I told him never to contact me again. I have now turned down several offers for script consulting because it's not worth the aggravation.

I discovered the cure for that aggravation - never do it again.

Doug:

You're right. Every time I don't trust my initial instincts, it goes bad.

Felix (this may come with my age), when I first started writing I knew I sucked. So expected to be wrong more than right. Hard truth makes you learn quicker. It really does.

I get notes from people that are fans of the genre. I look to end users. I want to know if I am hitting the mark with the audience. If I am then showing my work to people that know that audience, they will recognise what the audience sees. This is not alway true.

I am overly self-confident. If I am happy with what I have written, job done. It will find an audience, it may be small. But there is an audience. The feedback I love and crave is from collaborators. When a director or producer says “I need this”. I am solving a problem. If someone says to me “you need to..” I tend to ignore them.

I crave a pat on the back as much as I crave find cash in the street. Nice if it happens, but I don’t care either way.

The sooner you become self reliant, the sooner you will be happier. (free tip to everyone that reads this. It works for all aspects of your life).

Thanks, Phillip E. Hardy, Prolifique. The writing job is a ghostwriting job. Feature script. My main goal for November Write Club is a spec feature script.

Thanks, Felix Agyeman Boahen. Same to you. Keep working hard. What genres are your TV scripts and feature scripts?

Maurice: thanks for sharing. Best of luck getting it all done by the end of the month.

You're welcome, Phillip E. Hardy, Prolifique. Thanks. Best to you on your projects.

It's a two way street. The industry is built on tact and kindness. Those who find they regularly receive an angry response to their notes need to take that as feedback themselves. It can come back to haunt you later. I have a screenwriter trying to hang on to my coat tails at the moment who was unreasonably curt about a script I shared with them years ago. I've seen who they are when they think the boot's on the other foot.

You've also got to back up subjective feedback up with objective reasoning too and that's where most who offer feedback go wrong. Telling someone you just don't like something isn't of much use and typically down to personal taste, emotions, or even ignorance. Good feedback should educate at the amateur level - although it's a terribly inefficient way to hone skills.

Very direct comments can poke people the wrong way but then being slimy about it can be worse and come across as patronising.

This all said. I've been there. I had someone on here decide they were going to read one of my scripts without me requesting. They then sent me a load of feedback that was incredibly condescending and demotivating. To add insult to injury, they requested I review a script of theirs to return the 'favour', which I did, only for them to shut down every minor criticism I made as if I'd slapped their grandma in the face. Complete waste of time. I actually ended up taking the script out of my portfolio and now someone who saw it before it was removed is trying to get it made.

I agree with CJ. Giving feedback should be constructive and useful for the writer. Saying that you liked it or didn't like it does not provide much feedback to work with. There should be a good amount of objective points (structure for example) as well as subjective points.

CJ: I agree feedback should explain the issues in detail. I've only had one paid consult and had no problems. However, I've received a ton of free contests/festivals and other writer feedback, and some of them had some strong opinions. If I disagree, I move on. But, again, I stand by my statement that some writers seek affirmation, not honest feedback. And if a writer can't stand the heat...

This is it. A lot of writers beg for feedback because they desperately want validation but end up dwelling on the criticism. Been there myself. The feedback they have is subjective but feels objective and they then go out and solicit more responses which sends them into a spiral of confusion because so much contradicts so much else. All they do is gather more and more to feel doubt over.

Very few writers out there are really strong enough to handle feedback because they cannot separate the work they intended to create and the desires of the reader and take the misalignment as a personal attack. Compounding that is a wide spread reluctance to take any study of writing craft, filmmaking logistics, and commerciality seriously.

CJ you are 100%, people attach their identity to their work. When you say it is bad, no matter how much advice you give or how constructive it is, they see it as a personal attack. Not just notes, we see it here all the time. People say things like “I have a 300 page feature, anyone want to buy it”. When people point out it is a bit long. They get the response “How do you know you haven’t read it. You’re a no body…. blah blah blah”

Here is something that may help.

If someone says “You’re second act sucks, it achieves nothing”. Focus them on the work “So the screenplays second act is lacking?”. Get them to remove “You” from the comments and talk about the screenplay. Perhaps that will make it more tolerable.

CJ:

Spiral of Confusion is a great title for screenplay.

I agree that that it's likely an identity issue or lack of maturity. How many of us have been there? If we're honest, many of us. And while it's not up to us to give them an identity, it is still possible to be encouraging and honest at the same time. And it doesn't cost me anything.

There's never been a great script or novel that didn't benefit from editing. I've been editing for 40 years and 95% of those edits made my scripts better.

I think the concept of being polite is disappearing from our society.

I applaud you for your honesty. As a film producer, best-selling author, screenwriter and university adult education instructor for creative writing, I have always strived to give an honest evaluation of what I have read to my students and now screenwriters. My instructor who taught me how to write, (best-selling author Robert W. Walker) was a strict taskmaster. I owe him a lot. I love to write stories and when an editor gives me constructive feedback, I have learned through experience to understand what I am being given. You sound the same, "Uncle Phil." Thanks for your comment.

"Uncle Phil," may I join your network of creatives?

"I think the concept of being polite is disappearing from our society." Let's make sure that doesn't happen, Eric. :)

Robert W. Walker was your instructor, Lee? The author of "Dead On"? I wrote that book into a script wayyyy back. I was a young writer, so I probably didn't do it justice. :) I'm not sure if Robert tried to pitch the script or not.

I think graciously thanking them for their time and leaving it at that is good. Its much more polite than arguing about their evaluation.

I agree, wholeheartedly!

Maurice, Robert W. Walker is one of my best friends. I am currently adapting his book, GHOST GUN" into a feature film screenplay for an A-List actor who is also a good friend. My wife and I promised him a western and I think this may be the one.

That's pretty cool, Lee. "Dead On" was fun to adapt. It's probably the best Thriller book I've ever read.

That's a great title for a Western! Man, you know all of the stars. :) Hope you get the A-List actor attached.

Absolutely, you want the notes to be direct and on point with things that need changing. if the writers are arguing about the notes they are not industry ready. My script consultant and I did not get on well and after the third draft of one of my scripts I dropped them, but I still recognize them and thank them to others because the time we did spend on those drafts moved me in the direction I am in now.