This will be a long post. I don’t know how to make it shorter, but I think it is super relevant to the world we all live in. I have just finished my first screenplay. I was not very keen to look up all the rules and regulations, as I was eager to write. So, I just wrote it how I wanted it to be. Now, as I go through trying to make this presentable to show to an agent, I come upon many things that need to change. I read an article written by a lawyer, running down copyright and how you cannot use anything that you don’t have permission for. Of coarse I knew using songs and material is expensive. But I figured I could include what I wanted and if getting the rights can’t happen just change it later. Well the screenplay is absolutely loaded with stuff that I don’t have permission to use. The script is about a loner who broadcasts a pirate radio show and kidnaps people to be his guest on the show. So if you are working a story in the world of a radio show, there has to be music involved. I set up scenes with specific songs that would create the kind of atmosphere I was looking for. Furthermore, I have a couple of musical montages in the script and I picked specific songs that I thought would be the most effective. There is a scene where a captive begins to sing to the radio host, which eventually puts the host to sleep. So of course I picked a certain song for that. And it goes further! I chose some passages from an old spoken-word comedy album, which is infused in the script in a way that it explains the whole moral of the story. And if that’s not enough, I have two characters where the basis of their friendship is to constantly be quoting old movie lines at one another! (I limited this to two different shows they would quote from.) Now the article I read was written by a lawyer, so as you can imagine it’s going to be written to the letter of the law. So I hyper-ventilated for about two days. But as I think about it, there really is nothing that you can’t fix, right? So there are places where, instead of naming a specific song, I can simply describe the type of music the scene requires, avoiding using anybody’s copyrighted material. Now a lot of this material is 40+ years old because of how it fits the character. That may help a little. Having to lose the spoken word comedy album passages, to me, damages the film. Having said that I guess it would be quite possible to simply create a passage that has a similar effect that would be my own work, and obviously could be more cheaply done. I really don’t know what to do about quoting other movie lines in the dialogue. I’ve often thought why don’t movies do that more often? I mean I know a lot of people who quote movie lines ALL the time, it’s a part of real life, so why isn’t in the movies? The answer is probably because it costs money to be able to do that. There is also the pitfall that if the audience hasn’t seen that particular movie, the line will go over their head. I guess that too is something that can be worked around. So as I go through reformatting the script to get the right amount of pages and to make sure slug lines are right and all of that, my question is, how much of that borrowed material if any, should I leave in and what should be taken out? If I’m Kevin Smith I leave it all in, because I’m not gonna sacrifice my vision. But if you are nobody, how do you approach using material like this. Is it a complete no-go to submit to an agent?
Screenwriting : Writer’s dilemma using songs and copyrighted material by William Greenberg
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Geez everything falls into one unending paragraph, that’s not how I wrote it lol
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Well for me there is not really dilemma at all, for me I always include a song that is being played in a scene especially in the action part. And I will sometimes even write out the studio logo intro as well if my movie has a certain theme to it or so.
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Ok Nelson so if you want a certain song on your script, then you put that song and the name of the singer/band in the script? I mean that’s what I initially did as well. But when you read online about the do’s and don’ts, people say do not do that. So that’s where I am looking for the correct advice.
Hey, William Greenberg. It sounds like you figured out most of what you could do: "So there are places where, instead of naming a specific song, I can simply describe the type of music the scene requires, avoiding using anybody’s copyrighted material." "Having said that I guess it would be quite possible to simply create a passage that has a similar effect that would be my own work, and obviously could be more cheaply done."
"I really don’t know what to do about quoting other movie lines in the dialogue." Do you think you could make up your own movie lines and movies?
I'm not sure it's a complete no-go to submit your script to an agent as is, but you have a lot of copyrighted material in your script, so it might turn some agents off. That's not to discourage you though. With an incredible script, an agent might overlook how much copyrighted material is in your script.
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Yeah I think that makes sense Maurice
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Long answer, here. With the caveat that I'm not an attorney...in spec screenplays, there is no copyright infringement when a writer quotes anything they want to quote-- as long as it's clear from the context that your characters are quoting some other writer's instantly recognizable, famous work rather than passing it off as your own, which I'm sure you aren't (if what you're quoting isn't famous, you probably wouldn't be using it anyway). And if it's vital to your story to use a particular song (as in "Sea of Love", for example), then go ahead and use it. All of your attention should be focused on your screenwriting craft-- you really don't have to be too worried about things like this, unless the intent is to convince people you wrote lines or passages you didn't, which doesn't sound like the case at all here. It sounds to me like you are merely quoting famous works and want your audience to know you are doing this.
That said, getting song rights can be very expensive for a producer and if you're quoting famous song lyrics, or the like, frequently-- or for very well known songs for which it's likely to cost a producer an arm and a leg to get a license to use them-- it's always helpful if you keep such use to a bare minimum and simply suggest a "type" of song if naming one in particular is not vital to the scene. But it's not a writer's job to get song licenses or any other type of permissions (except perhaps "life rights" or avoiding anything that might be defamatory to a living person), unless they are also the producer of the film, or are intending to plagiarize somebody else's work, which is very different from having your characters sing a famous song, quote from a famous poem, or the like.
The issue I see here is more of an artistic choice, than a legal one. If you are quoting long passages from anything-- whether a famous comedy routine, or a song-- this really may not be ideal use of limited screen time. And if characters' whole riff is to trade famous movie lines back and forth, my suggestion would be to consider alternatives and come up with something unique for them instead-- not because there are copyright infringement concerns, but because it's just more interesting for the audience if you come up with your own riffs that are unique to those characters. I'm reminded of a wonderful riff in the Netflix TV series "Extraordinary Attorney Woo", in which two friends have a unique greeting that they repeat whenever they see each other, and it's delightful.
Also, speaking as a longtime script reader, my advice would be never to have your characters quote other movies in your film. While you're correct that people do indeed sometimes do this in real life, in the movies it just doesn't work as well, in part because it takes your audience right out of the world of your story and reminds them it's just a movie, and also a famous classic movie line is never as much fun when quoted out of context in another movie-- nor as effective-- as it was in the original context. And for script readers in general, we see this really, really often in the scripts we read-- screenwriters are all classic film buffs, after all-- and rather than feeling that "we're all in the same club" in knowing these wonderful famous references just as the screenwriter does, it just doesn't have that effect on a reader. You sound like a movie buff, and if that's the case with your rich background in movie history you know your stuff, and you will be able to come up with your own original riffs-- and then in the future, after your movie gets made, people will be quoting you! Hope this helps.
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Hey @William, this is a great question and one that I touch on a lot when I'm helping writers with scripts. You're totally right that you can evoke tone in the script. For the TV lines, a few lines you don't have to worry about (look at the romcom episode of 'Ted Lasso' where Ted makes a speech with famous romcom lines). There are lots of times where movie/TV projects use dialogue like that. BUT, from a reader perspective, every line that connects to something outside the story can actually cause your audience to stop and think of that other thing. And what you want is for your audience to always be invested and connected to your story. So I would pepper it in as a touchstone, instead of doing it so much that you're audience is paying more attention to that than story. Kind of like when people complain about all the "easter eggs" in Marvel movies and how those references take away from the actual story. I haven't read your script so I don't know how much you're using this stuff, but you can always get a consultation and they can help you find those lines.
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Emily and Staton, thanks for your responses, and as I said, I think this thread cuts right to the bone on something very relevant that we all have questions about. I DREAD asking questions in this manner because many times people respond who just like to hear themselves talk, and the advice leads you into a greater level of frustration than you had before. But I find Stage 32 so far to be a very welcoming and helpful community, despite all of the advertisements. So everybody who has responded I find this very helpful and interesting. I think what you all are saying makes a lot of sense. I was reading suggestions on a reputable site about script writing, and it used very strong language when talking about using songs and copyrighted material with a lot of DO NOTS. But at my low level, I figure it makes the most sense to put in to the script what I think would play best on the screen. Most of what I used is obscure music that goes way back because the older character would be playing stuff from his younger days… I’m talking Spike Jones. The script is a thriller, and I love the juxtaposition at times of zany music against intense mayhem. One of my influences is Rob Zombie, (although I find it’s not coming natural to me to push the level of gore to where he would go) but I love the music selections in his movies, which runs the gamut, between popular and obscure. So, based on what was discussed in this thread, I feel like I’m going to leave the specific music in there, and if along the lines, somebody wants to change it, they can change it. The tougher thing for me are the two characters who quote movie lines to each other. Don’t get the wrong impression, It’s only 1% of the script, because these characters are only together in three scenes. so I don’t think it detracts from moving the plan along. My fear isn’t so much that I overdid it, but that I am certain these lines will go over the head of 90% of the audience who would watch something like this. Now a part of me says “this is what I would like to see on the big screen and if the audience doesn’t get it that’s their problem.” As a viewer, I like to be challenged to have to figure stuff out, but I also realize I am in a minority on that. Some of these lines are so obscure when I look at it, they almost work within the dialogue whether the audience knows it’s from something else or not. I realize I can’t have everything, so I think the correct compromise is to go back and scale some of that down. Remember, the cable guy with Jim Carrey, that’s what one of the characters is, he’s obsessed with TV and music from his younger days that he almost talks in that language even though it’s beyond everybody else. So that’s why it’s worked into the script, but like I said, listening to your reactions to this thread, I think it makes sense to trim some of the fat off that. Interesting conversation though and thank you I think about Ernest cline, who wrote the book, ready player one, without having done anything before. He used a million references of copyrighted material some of which is worldwide famous material. So he turns in this book with no accomplishments as a writer, and the publisher is going to need permission from 1000 people to put the book out there. But at the end of the day, I assume the publisher saw that it was a great story and went ahead and did it.
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Hi William - it’s great that you’re reaching out to the community here to discuss this. There are bound to be a lot of opinions on this topic so just sharing my own at least in terms of the music cues… I am a believer in including music cues if they help amplify your story and characters but do so knowing that things may have to change based on the eventual business model. If a studio gets involved, you may end up with what you originally intended and if a project gets made independently then creative solutions have to considered and applied. But that goes for many elements in a script - a helicopter chase may become a car chase, as one example. It’s all about supporting your characters and their journey. If a script is about going to Mars, take me to Mars and not just to the moon out of legal or budgetary fears that don’t exist yet. Here are two links to Stage 32 education on legal clearances that I recommend: https://www.stage32.com/webinars/How-and-Why-You-Need-To-Legally-Clear-Y... And here is another: https://www.stage32.com/classes/How-You-Can-Protect-Yourself-Legally-fro...