Screenwriting : Logline feedback by James Sutherland

Happy New Year, James Sutherland.

I don't see how the inciting incident ("After uncovering a grisly homicide near her newly assigned rural workplace") connects with the protagonist's goals.

I suggest adding a comma after "workplace."

I suggest changing "must play" to "plays."

Hi James, what little I know for sure about loglines (I have the same difficulties) is 1) It is a 2 line pitch for your spec, and 2) keep no secrets. I have no idea about your story, and only suggest this as an example of my approach: "A detective, (demoted for? (if it's relevant)), investigating a gruesome murder, suspects some of her new colleagues are involved in a cover-up pinning her daughter as the prime suspect."

I don't see a link between the homicide and everything else...If this is a major story plot, then you should involve it consequentially within the logline, if not, don't even mention it here...

Good example of a logline, in my opinion. Not exactly the freshest of concepts, but there's a buoyant market for this kind of thriller. Just needs a comma after workplace.

Crime thrillers often have a very strong social B-storyline. It's a bit tricky in your case, to have it in, because the social part also seems to be about finding justice. If you only focus on the A-storyline:

A demoted city detective finds herself in a threatening cat and mouse game with old colleagues, during her devotion to solve a grisly homicide near her newly assigned rural workplace.

A bit too long. Though a tad overstuffed, it's vague. As others have noted, what's the connection between reclaiming a city job and justice for a daughter. What's her crime? Too many concepts and unanswered questions.

A logic note, how is a city cop demoted to a rural jurisdiction? Perhaps if they were part of a state agency. Wouldn't they be fired from the city? Most likely it makes sense in the script's context but it tracks odd in the logline.

I would shorten it to explain the main plot, antagonist and protagonist.

Logline doesnt jump off the page "I must read" impression. Maybe city cop wants demotion/ intentionally fired & transfers to rural cop job because it is a way to solve/get justice for a cold case (dead daughter?).

In an extremely competitive marketplace, good enough is hardly good enough any more. Surprised to find that's not universally accepted. Maybe it's different in Europe.

OP asked for feedback. Members took time to offer it. Like their opinions or don't. Minimally, respondents are due respect for putting themselves out there.

Hi James Sutherland - I recommend this Stage 32 webinar on loglines taught by Chris Lockhart, one of the great story editors in the industry (currently at WME). Here's a link so you can check it out: https://www.stage32.com/webinars/How-To-Make-Your-Logline-Attractive-to-...

Well done James! The story seem well taken. It's good. But from your logline there's no mystery, it's just it won't bring out curiosity from the Audience.

Hi James, I've got a few thoughts that may help.

First is that in my experience with log lines that appeal to directors and producers, less is more. Get to the essential premise that will capture their attention and leave the story details (like the new rural workplace) for the script.

Second is that if this is a high stakes crime thriller, it would help to use language more indicative of that genre (not sure "attain" works with the idea of justice).

Third is actually a couple of questions - Is the murder victim her daughter? The way your log line is structured now, they seem unrelated. And, are her colleagues somehow involved or responsible for the murder?

Lastly, while there's a degree of understanding that a demotion is a negative thing, it might help more to describe the detective's state of being, rather than her employment status to make her immediately relatable.

All that said, here's my suggestion for a more focused version of your log line:

"A struggling homicide detective must outwit a corrupt precinct in order to solve her own daughter's murder."

I hope this retains the intent of your core idea, and again I hope this helps. Good luck with your script!

Willem Elzenga, I would not read a script with such a logline. if the logline looks weak,don't need to change the logline, but the script.

Thank you all for comments feedback and the discourse, I usually throw loglines up on the site https://logline.it/ for feedback, sometimes you get crickets, you all have been so expedient and on point with your comments, most of this has confirmed my gut instincts about the logline so thank you all again very much.

A little more context if you are interested. The main character is a police sergeant Yuka Noguchi in the Tokyo Metropolitan Police Department, she worked in the Special Investigations Division of which there are three, Fraud, Organized crime and Robber/Homicide. Her daughter Seira was the victim of a violent assault by a Sukeban gang, a gang of "Delinquent girls" the trauma and shame of this assault, leads her to commit suicide. Yuka gets herself demoted to a rural community police box in the west of Tokyo be be close to the gang members and one by one she kills them while embedding herself into the investigation. After killing the red herring, the twist is the reveal by a journalist who develops a friendly relationship with her through the story that he knows her to be the culprit of the killings, she admits it he destroys the evidence of her guilt.

My main concern in the logline was whether or not to include the twist, I figure it needs to draw interest without giving away the ending. Again thank you all so much for your comments on this!

Hi James Sutherland - Thanks for sharing your work! I agree with Paul's feedback above. That is spot-on. I personally LOVE the setting of Tokyo! That is such a stunning visual and cultural twist--definitely include that. A nod to this fun setting can grab script readers' and story editors' attention to stand out in a sea of other crime dramas. (As a script reader myself, I know I would be drawn to it.)

To riff off of Paul's rewrite or your logline, you could try...

""A disgraced Tokyo homicide detective must outwit a corrupt precinct to solve her own daughter's murder."

If you ever get crickets from logline.it or here, you could become friends with ChatGPT. While it can't replace human writing, it can be a great friend to brainstorm with.

Nothing more for me to add since you've gotten great feedback. Kudos to you on reaching out, that takes guts!

You're welcome, James Sutherland. If you can fit the twist in the logline, I say add it. A logline is a tool to get producers, directors, etc. interested in reading the script. The twist could be the thing that really draws a producer, director, etc. in so they read your script and option/buy it.

And he got other feedback as well.

Don't need homework. Your lesson is clear. Re: the rest - who gives a crap.

The logline sounds like a very short synopsis in my opinion.

I'm whatever your fantasy allows, and I always do.

Yawn.

Thank you all again, I greed with the comments on punctuation, word economy and choice, location and relationship to inciting incident and goals, all incredibly helpful. I also believe loglines should be short, so I revised it and am running with this which more closely reflects the essence of story at the moment, thanks to you all: "A Tokyo detective strategically accepts a demotion to a rustic precinct, in pursuit of revenge in an unsolved case, the grisly death of her daughter."

Love it! Maybe nix "strategically" ? It distracted me from the rest of your logline as it raised more questions than answers. Technical writing: no comma after precinct.

I like the shorter logline more, James Sutherland. I made the bold part shorter: "A Tokyo detective strategically accepts a demotion to a rustic precinct to get revenge in an unsolved case, the grisly death of her daughter."

Pretty good, MV. A bit more trimming, mayhaps:

A Tokyo detective requests a demotion to a rural precinct to avenge the unsolved grisly murder of her daughter.

Maybe identify the detective as female; lots of show biz ppl (privately) dont want to make movies with female leads.

I like it, E Langley!

A tip o' the hat back, Maurice.

James Sutherland something I'm still not quite clear on. In your original log line, you wrote "...must play a game of cat and mouse with her colleagues..." Does this mean that there are police officers at this rural precinct who are somehow connected to or directly responsible for her daughter's murder? Does she know this for sure, or is she conducting her own off-the-books investigation of them? I think these could be points worth retaining, as they help connect the reason for the relocation, and more importantly, they establish both the element of mystery (generally inherent in the genre) and raise the stakes (trying to solve a murder is one thing; trying to prove another cop is responsible would really stack the deck against her). I suppose this also gets to the point of, is this a crime story or a revenge story? I've seen the words "justice", "revenge", and "avenge" throughout this thread. It's important to define what it is you're asking the audience to sign up for. Are they alongside her, trying to figure things out? Or do they know, just as she does, who's responsible, and they're hoping to see her take them down?

Hi Paul Guidry yes the cat and mouse comment referred to her being involved in the investigation of the crimes she committed, alongside her colleagues unbeknownst to them, while investigating she is manipulating the process, steering the course so they don't discover it is her doing the killing. I'd say it's becoming through iterations a sub genre of crime. E Langley and E Langley I love your condensed loglines, thank you!

My pleasure, James.

Look at that. We can help each other here despite pesky gadflies.

Hi James Sutherland I have to apologize. I just re-read your expanded explanation of the plot that you shared yesterday. I love the premise and the twist. That said, I don’t think any of the log lines so far - mine included - quite capture the hook or the twist.

Clearly this detective isn’t interested in solving anything, and her daughter wasn’t, in any literal sense, murdered.

The tension here, and it’s really good tension, is whether or not she - someone who’s vowed to uphold the law - will be discovered as committing the worst crime possible.

The fact that she’s exacting revenge for her daughter makes her a wonderful, sympathetic, anti-hero. It’s great audience subversion. We’re rooting for a cop to get away with murder.

All that leads to a couple more suggestions for ways to craft your log line. As always, I hope this helps.

“As a cop murders gang members who drove her daughter to suicide, she tries avoids detection by embedding herself in the case.”

“When gang members begin turning up dead, a hardened detective forces her way onto the case, not to solve the crime, but to hide the fact that she’s the murderer.”

The more I learn about your story, the more I like it. Good luck.

Hi Paul Guidry, thank you so much for this, very in depth and it helps a lot!

Former big city detective banished to small town police work while pursuing justice for her daughter, races against former colleagues to solve a gruesome murder.