Screenwriting : That damn ocean! by Norman Welthagen

Yorkshire proverb: See all, hear all, say nowt; eat all, sup all, pay nowt. And if tha does owt for nowt, do it for thysen.

Do not tell him to get stuffed. But proceed with caution. This producer makes rash decisions. I'm with TheDigital Media Solution - if this producer has produced before and you are quite sure he will produce this movie then you should seriously consider writing. But not for free. If this guy is for real he can afford something. How about this; tell him you'll write if for $250 up front and the rest (your number here) when it gets financed. and make that number a good one. At this stage you DO have the experience to back up your request - he loves the script he optioned from you, he knows you can write the new one. If you treat yourself as a professional and he rejects that is that a producer you want to be in business with?

Thanks for all the advice. That's my feeling Rick. His entire reason for not going with me was because I was in South Africa, separated by an ocean so to say. So why now is it all okay that's fine? The ocean doesn't bother me anymore. I think personally I'm gonna take my time with this decision and let him know on Monday. My own work is falling behind.

As a writer I would never agree to a percentage. There is no way to account for what you are owed. I prefer a flat payment. Lyse, I suspect we all go through something like that - I did. And I, too, learned from the experience. I learned that if a producer cannot pay anything for the script they are unlikely to be able to pay to make the project. $400 is isn't much in reality - on a 6 month option that means $17 per week. If the producer were to cut out 2 trips to Starbucks each week they could cover that.

Great point Rik. I've handed out FAR too many £1 (I'm from the UK) options on my work, tying perfectly marketable scripts up for sometimes 18 months at a time to 'producers' who never had a cat in hell's chance of getting the funding. From now on, I'm applying the following rule: 1. Establish a reasonable expectation of the budget. Say, for argument's sake $1,000,000 on a low budget feature. 2. Agree a writing fee as a percentage of that. Again, for arguments sake, say as a MINIMUM 3% of the budget: $30,000. 3. The option amount should be 10% of that: $3,000. Let's face it, if a Producer can't raise $3,000, they're hardly likely to to be able to raise $1million. Also, it shows you know what you are worth. Just my thoughts anyway...

Dan, I'm just offering a different opinion. As a writer I wouldn't want a percentage of the "project" either. I'm not saying it's wrong or bad advice. I respect your opinion and what you would do in a similar situation. As a writer I wouldn't want to be a part owner of a project being made in a different country. I'm a poor accountant and I wouldn't want to cover the expenses of hiring one. Different methods for different writers. Your suggestion is a good one. John - a very good method I, too, would follow. On an 18 month option, $3,000 is only $166 a month. You're right - a producer who can't manage $40 a week is not likely to raise $1,000,000. I might even make an offer of a smaller fee for a shorter period of time. Say, a six month option for $600. A producer who finds that unreasonable is....

Thanks guys, you've helped me make my mind up.

LOL. Thanks Lyse. I've decided to politely decline to write the script. Feel I really need to get back to my own scripts now.

Norman -- good move to politely decline. Do the same for MOST directors, studio execs, actors -- who ask you to write for FREE! You are a professional. Too many writers get burned doing the studio dance. You're a GOOD WRITER. Get paid for your HARD WORK!

it's a tough call man.. here's my perspective... if you can manage the time and find the energy, do it. your own personal shit isn't going anywhere.. it's with you and you'll knock it out along the way.,. first, are you cool with the director who's asking you to write for him on spec? i think i got the back story but are you two cool? secondly, is he in a position to get the material produced? if he answer is<"yes"... and you're feeling the idea.... do it. "A life of risk beats one of quiet desperation." - Can't remember who said it...

Unless I got it wrong, it sounded dubious that the first screen writer got paid for a script he wasn't using after all...Is that something that happens often in this world? So off the cuff it sounded like the guy wasn't very together to handle business in that way. Things have to feel right when it comes to where you put your creativity. We all there are exceptions and probably more often than not, however, life is short and we should all be true to ourselves and our own values. That is what pays off in the end.

The producer doesn't sound like he has his shit together. He says he has no money after giving it all to the first scriptwriter and then wants you to do the same work for free? Double standards. Work on your own stuff and then get it to the right people. If it's good enough those people will start coming to you.

Hi Norman, You've had a million opinions so far and I can't offer anything new but simply reiterate what others have said. If this Director has raised the money before then he can raise it again. He knows what your work is like so he knows what he will be getting for his money. You've already provided a short for free and because he has been willing to pay for the same project before, I would hold out by saying that you need some payment for a feature even if you want to work out a partial payment and a percentage of the gross profits? Shorts are one thing as I'm currently writing shorts for a studio for free. At this stage, I'm after credit and I have a day job that pays the bills so I'm happy to work out payment at a later stage but certainly for a feature I would be requesting some sort of payment.

I read through the thread and I think that since you are passionate about your own instincts and not being paid, that is probably the direction to go, especially since the other writer was paid and the suggestion is for you not to be. That said, I do think there are times to work for free for experience and am doing some of that myself currently and I am learning a lot. The author of the book 'Think and Grow Rich' which is a classic for business school people talks about the idea of 'work to learn, not to earn'. There is something to be said for apprenticeships. Also something to be said for projects that put you around the right people and the right experiences. Like Lyse said, she learned a lot about what she could do and how to do it or not do it in working with a certain person/project. But now she would not do it again. Writing is one thing, writing in relationship to a creator is another thing. You could negotiate a percentage of the project for a fee as someone suggested. It may be a challenge to actually get that percentage, but may be a good exercise anyhow if you feel that is the way to go. For me I want the experience. I don't have a ton of money, but I also want to give others the experience. I don't mind part of my paying dues helping others pay their dues. Internships would be unpaid and/or poorly paid in L.A., and there is value to credit if someone will produce a project properly. As someone said, if you have other projects going nowhere and legitimately feel like the guy can produce it well, that may be worth something for you and for him. Although your 'bliss' may be with your projects. You may not trust this guy at this point and that may be valid. So he may not be the one to work with. This coming week I have the option of working on my writing which would be my intellectual instinct, and going out of town and spending time with a friend I haven't seen in a while which may lead to some non film related projects. My instinct though is to go do that for some reason. The unconscious mind factors in things that the conscious mind does not. Sure instincts can be wrong, but often they are right. We need to hone our instincts. In the case of my trip out of town, this friend has been supportive and I have met others through him. Much of that can contribute to character development and also just clear my head. He can be a good sounding board for a lot and has interesting friends who can shape my understanding of characters. So even though it seems like a distraction, it feels very strongly like the right thing to do. Plus I know his stories over time and haven't caught up for a while, so it can help me further hone just my internal archetypes and story arcs that I derive so much from consciously and unconsciously. I thought the mention of doing some projects for free and other projects not even for the money was a wise one. Business of any sort is a relationship business. The right L.A. contact who could truly become a friend and be a respected supporter of your work and help shop you around his network could be worth more than any money you have. I met a potential collaborator through the friend I will be staying with. He has taken me to film festivals (even though he is not a film person). He has networked me with people that lead to story ideas. I will be staying there, partially to see another friend who will be in that area who has been an influence of story ideas. I don't think entirely strategically, but there are layers involved. Oh, having been at a film festival with him and another friend (a major festival), I met a friend I had known from another major city and then networked with others and saw another friend. That friend got me VIP passes for an event. I have come to think in terms of systems and relationships. If this guy helps you develop good work, maybe even though he has lost funds, he is worth it. If this project helps him get better funded and is small enough, then maybe that is worth something if you develop a good relationship with him. i would say put all that in your mind and still trust your gut and don't worry about it even if he makes a fortune through someone that is not you involved with the project. And of course if you want to work with him, but not without the money, then say that. "I would love to work with you, but I don't feel like I can afford (or feel right about) working without the funds. If you get the funds and would like to work with me, let me know. I would love to work on the project."

Here's another, this isn't about actual script writing. It's about negotiating. And that we can all use more experience doing. Let us know what happens?