Screenwriting : Marv's Script-Tips by Marvin Willson

True. Unless it's satire in the funny ha-ha sense :)

indeed.

"NEVER" is to ridged for me. First; it's rare that a characters first and last name is spoken out loud so "NEVER" seems harsh. Second; a rhyming name could stick out in the readers mind which may be a good thing sometimes. And third; the writer may use a rhyming name to make a point in the story - even in a drama.

Rik, If you need a characters name for the reader to remember them, you have bigger problems. Feel free to prove me wrong and show examples, in drama, where a rhyming name is a point in a story. In comedy maybe, drama? I'm listening.

Relax, Marvin. I didn't say "to remember" - I said, "to stick out". I'm just offering some thoughts why "NEVER" is too ridged for me. I used a rhyming name in a thriller and the characters name was one of the plot twists. This isn't a "prove me wrong" situation. You post an absolute "NEVER" and I post an opinion. If you do not want alternate opinions posted please say so.

Perfectly relaxed sir, changed it slightly.

That seems much less ridged to me. This is clearly a script-tip that means something to you. Why is a character with a rhyming name something to avoid?

Hollywood script-toss 101.

Why so cryptic? Are you saying that a professional reader will toss a script that has a character with a rhyming name? Is that what "Hollywood script-toss 101" means?

It's a rookie move, but by all means...

Dan, Script readers at studios/Prod-co's will toss a script if doesn't have the right amount of brads, has the WGA number or copyright on the cover and one I know would weigh up a script in his hand and toss it, if it felt too heavy. Certain things scream amateur to them. But l'm only offering advice, no-one has to take it. :-)

I use a spreadsheet with 1000 first and last names. If it looks good I run with it.

We all know no one has to take your advice. I am a fellow writer and I'm curious by nature. I am curious as to the "why" of your advice. I can't quite figure out why you are so reluctant to illustrate your Script-Tip. What did you meant by “Hollywood script-toss 101”? What do you mean by “rookie move”? Why should a writer avoid names that rhyme? I am a reader. My job is to fully cover every script I get. I cannot toss a script because it is too heavy because I won't get paid. I cannot toss a script due to the amount of brads because I then do not get paid. I certainly would not toss a script because one of the characters has a name that rhymes. A reader only gets paid if they turn in complete coverage. Every script tossed is a script you don't get paid for and it will go to a reader who will cover it. So you are saying that, Marvin, that it screams amateur to a reader for a studio or prdoCo if the name of a character rhymes? And that they will toss the script without reading it further? In that case your original "NEVER!" is more accurate.

Last names really do not matter much. Even in a drama one could use a rhyming name as a bit of light-heartedness before the proverbial manure hits the fan. It could be a running joke throughout the movie, even in a drama. Drama is about highs and lows, fun and sadness. A rhyming surname could help provide a bit of light heartedness to almost any genre. In fact now that you mention it, I'm going to use it sometime in the future.

Large production companies and studios have assistants read as many as 10/20 scripts a day. Their job is to whittle the list down, so those that get a "recommend" can be looked at higher up the food chain and they are looking for any reason not to read them. Bad spelling, formatting, too many pages, bad grammar. Some of them have pet peeves and yes, a conversation I had with one stated that rhyming names is one of them. Pro's simply don't do it.

What about film names like Kill Bill? Or actor names like Jack Black? Georgie Porgie pudding and pie... I'm sure there's a cartoon out there somewhere that could use a rhyming character name, to add to the poetic use of alliteration. Maybe not the best idea for a melodrama, but it might work for a panto.

You also want to avoid characters that have similiar names. Bill married Jill, yada yada.

Why not? One of my favorite characters, from One Life To Live, is Nora Hanen Gannon Buchanan (though she was also briefly married to Mr. Colson, making her Nora Hanen Gannon Buchanan Colson Buchanan). It's quite amusing.

Another example is from General Hospital. Damien Spinelli, whom everyone calls Spinelli. He's now seeing a girl named Ellie. His ex pointed out once that, should they marry, she'd be Ellie Spinelli. Both of my examples are dramatic series, but a bit of lighthearted comic relief is welcome. And please don't trash the genre, as you'll be showing your ignorance.

How about ironic names like Murphy Brown's Corky Sherwood who married Will Forrest, making her Corky Sherwood Forrest. I'd also love to hear from more professional readers to get their take on this advice. That rhyming names are the sign of a beginner or is somehow unprofessional seems a pretty arbitrary opinion to me.

If a reader tosses a script based on their pet peeves they will not have that job for very long. A readers job is to fully cover each script they are given. When they "Pass" they need to write in their coverage exactly why. If they pass because of a character with a first and last name that rhymes because that is their pet peeve the boss is going to question the coverage. There are still some deep misunderstanding about what a studio reader does.

BTW: Thanks Marvin for answering the "why". You know a reader whose pet peeve is rhyming names so your tip is to avoid them.

That brings up another good point, as I am pretty ignorant about the system, I know you can hire someone to give your script coverage, but do you have any say as to who will read it when you submit to a production company/studio/network?

Some great rhyming names there, thanks. It can also work for Charlton Heston.

Marcello, I'm not sure I understand the question. Are you asking if you can chose who covers your script when you send it to a company? How would you know which reader to ask for?

@ Marcello you can indeed pay someone or a company to do it, and they will you coverage but remember it is subjective and in many cases, you have no control over the level of expertise of the reader. if you submit a script to a studio or production company it goes through a certain level of quality control. Producers give them to their assistants. They are not required to do coverage on the scripts their job is to sort the wheat from the chaff. The wheat is then given to producer, who will look at the premise and decide if thats within their remit. if so, they may then get coverage on the selected scripts. The others are tossed and it's highly likely you'll never hear back. Some will however return solicited screenplays if you include a stamped, addressed envelope.

@Rik, yes, I was responding to your comment, "you know a reader whose pet peeve is rhyming names so your tip is to avoid them." That seemed to imply that I could ask for a particular reader to view my work, which doesn't seem likely. @Marvin, I want to be sure I understand. Are you saying the assistants who go through the first round don't have to explain why they're tossing it? Or do they have to read them through and write up why they decided to pass?

One method is they stamp the cover with PASS, RECOMMEND, HIGHLY RECOMMEND. That pet peeve comment was actually mine Marcello. I'm talking about submitting to Hollywood, If you pay a "consultant" (sic) or a coverage company they are obligated to give you a response, Prod cos and studios are not.

Thank you. That's what I originally thought, that a production co. reader can pass without having to explain to their higher-ups. Sorry for hijacking your thread. :)

Completely welcome Marcello, thats what threads are there for. It's a sad state of affairs but it is a reality that writers have to deal with. Thats why we have to be on our game.

Yeah, I wasn't really sorry. Just figure I should be polite. Ha! I do appreciate these discussions though.

I see where the misunderstanding is, Marcello. By “them” I meant rhyming names, not to avoid specific readers. A rewording would be; you know a reader whose pet peeve is rhyming names so your tip is to avoid rhyming names. When you submit a script to a studio you cannot specify which reader covers your script. As you point out you don’t even know who works for what company. For example, I cover for several different producers, prodCo’s and even agencies. When a script is accepted by a company they assign a reader randomly. Some have staff - very few these days - but most use freelancers like me. Just to clarify; the three levels of coverage are pass, consider and recommend. And no, despite Marvin’s experience (which is very different than mine) a reader who “passes” must fully complete the coverage explaining exactly why they passed. A reader cannot simply stamp pass on the cover and that’s it. All the people I work for - all of them without exception - read every top sheet on every script they get. Even the scripts that get a “pass”. Clearly Marvin and I have very different experiences covering scripts. I have never seen “recommend” and “highly recommend” - never. I have only seen pass, consider and recommend. I have never known a reader who would allow their pet peeve - like rhyming names - to get in the way of their coverage. I have never met a reader who would toss a script without reading it because it was too heavy or didn’t have the right brads. I have never met or heard of a reader who would just toss a script without reading it for any reason. I have never met or heard of a producers assistant who could cover 10/20 scripts a day. A full coverage takes around two and a half to three hours. 20 fully read and covered scripts would take 50/60 hours - non stop. It's too bad Marvin has met so many readers who don't take the job as seriously as the ones I have met. It does color ones opinion of the job and the people doing the job.

Another faux pas that's often over-looked is similar character names, such as Jaqueline and Jack, or even Simon and Samantha. As a writer, I even avoid names beginning with the same letter!

Absolutely Kirk. It plays havoc with final draft when you type C and Chris, Charles, Caitlin all come up.

@Rik, thank you for your detailed response. That makes me feel better about the system. So much advice out there, so many opinions, and a lot are fear-based and/or without anything to back up the claims. I'm confused about one thing though, you wrote, "I have never seen 'recommend' and 'highly recommend' - never. I have only seen pass, consider and recommend." That's contradictory. Would you mind clarifying?

Sure Marcello. Marvin said the three levels are "PASS, RECOMMEND, HIGHLY RECOMMEND" I have never seen this. I have only seen pass, consider and recommend. With the three Marvin has seen there is no middle ground. Many scripts fall into that middle ground; not good enough to "recommend" which means the reader thinks the boss should read the entire script and a "pass" which means the boss doesn't need to even think about that script. A "consider" means there are some good things and the coverage will detail what they are. In some cases a producer will read a "consider" if there are elements they are specifically looking for.

Right! because it NEVER happens in real life or in a successful TV show or movie, or book!! None of these ever happened! If they did certainly a name change is in order for them to be recognized or remembered. Freddie Mercury Jack Black Jesse McCartney Cheri Oteri Leelee Sobieski Sam Hamm Kenny Chesney Darren Hanlon Fay Wray Alan Jackson Evel Knievel Harry Carey (Actor) / Harry Caray (Anouncer) Faye Dunnaway Shaquille O'Neal Steve Reeves Wavy Gravy (Showing my age I guess with that one) Katy Perry Ralph Malph Danny Gokey Jacques Chirac Jesse McCartney Dwayne Wayne Nicky Anosike and don't forget the Animaniacs Yakko and Whakko.

My apologies, Rik is correct Pass, Consider, Recommend and in some cases Highly recommend.

Now Marvin, Rik... how do I go about getting one of those "Highly Recommend" stamps on my screenplay?? Oh and WHy not put the Registered WGA registration number on a registered work? Seems like it obviously goes there.

Dan's comment reminded me of a point. From experience, Errors and Omissions (E&O) insurance has an impact on character names before the project goes into production. Their job is to read the script and advise whether a name is safe to use and not open to a lawsuit. Example: Hannibal Lecter is a serial killing cannibal. A living person with the same name could have cause to sue a movie because of the perception and damage of his name.

Cap - write an excellent, marketable, high concept script. You'll get that recommend.

LOL@ Michael. You have to earn that. On the WGA subject; there is an assumption that all scripts should be registered. By placing your WGA number on the script screams "I have registered this so don't try and steal it" it's viewed as an amateur move. A cold hard truth. Not Every screenplay submitted to a studio gets read. Readers (generally interns and assistants) are looking for any reason NOT to read your screenplay. I'm not talking about those like Rik, who are paid to do coverage. You are up against each other when you submit a script and you're expected to be professional. I have ghost written, re-wriiten and critiqued many scripts and I have friends/enemies who do so for major management/agencies/prod-co's and studio's. A familiar tune sings out... "If a script has spelling errors/too many brads/rhyming names/bad formatting/too many pages/WGA number on the title page, then they are not coming off as professional" (delete where applicable). I have even seen scripts without title pages. I was talking to a reader for a major management company this weekend about this thread. She said "I wouldn't buy a car from someone that can't tell me about the car, so why would I read a script full of spelling errors. You're trying to sell me on you as a writer, so you should have NO spelling errors" (She also tosses scripts with 'Creative covers"). As writers, you have to give yourself every advantage.

Well Rik, Marvin Ah ain't ah gunna urn it witowt a nowin where ta senit now is I?

@ Rik Check. Check. Check. How about loaning me the rubber stamp and PMing me the address of who is next up the line! Actually with all the readers here that claim to be working all day reading you would think that Stage 32 should/would have a "submit screenplays here" button for you guys to get your hands on fresh material. It seems like everyone who is not a reader is a screenwriter.

I can't believe how many times I've argued with people on here about the importance of proper spelling, grammar, and punctuation. I don't bother any more. Go ahead and submit the scripts you're too lazy to have proofread. You're just increasing the chances that my script will get read all the way through. Thank you.

LOL@ Cap.. This has been a fun thread. It's good to connect...

@ Dan way to kill a thread man! Now they are all out writing furiously and I will have to compete with them! By the way Dan, "I agree you shouldn't be waste time arguing." Classic, pure sweet, easily understood English!

Also avoid giving characters names with the same first letter: Corey & Chole. It's confusing for a read.

@Cap - love the button idea - plus a Dollars-per-page on display - before the CV. A fellow writer, with good grammar/editing skills, like what I is, exchanging for mutual feedback, can often SEE obvious stuff that the writer skips. We've all done that, ain't we? I read a friend's script t'other day just before he sent the polished rewrite to a studio exec. After I pointed it out, he found (somehow!) an eMail he'd received pasted itself slap bang in the middle of the ENDURING IMAGE SCENE - of the finale.

stead of the hero appearing out of a massive explosion and walking off into the Blue setting sun.... It read: walked towards....insert...A BigMac for Shelley and a soda for me ..... Kinda thing. Final Draft Mobile deny all responsibility. ;-)

Of course, the insertion coulda been worse - "I hope that asshole at the studio ain't gonna nitpick like last time"

Button would be nice but I submit that when your logline or screenplay or treatment is posted on your profile and it sits there for six months with 500 connections but it is only viewed 4 times, three by yourself, this is not the place for screenwriters to get their work looked at.

Hey I kind of like those rhyming names I may do a script full of them. Yours Sincerely, Danny Manny.

Also avoid giving characters names with the same first letters like: KLYE AND KENDRA. Distracting to the eye when reading the screenplay—especially in dialogue.

shouldn't really matter if you have a real story. DUH!