Screenwriting : WGA REGISTRATION IS NOT ENOUGH: you must U.S. COPYRIGHT - http://www.copyright.gov/ by Babz Bitela, President

thank you for bringing this up, this is the first time hearing that WGA isn't enough. Just wondering a few things. Do you work at a boutique mngmt? Or what type of agency do you work for? and why wouldn't WGA be enough to prove authorship and ownership ? thanks...

Jacqueline is correct. Writers please protect your work.

I am sorry but the copyright law isn't ask cut and dry as this. And an agency rejecting scripts because of not having a US Copyright! There are 8 ways to copyright your work and with technology. The issue is that you want proof that it is your work. Because you pay for a piece of paper and a number doesn't count. I would rather take my awards.

I have both WGA and US Copyright on my award-winning script. Will you sign me now?

Simon, I've sold nearly two dozen projects over the last two years alone and she won't sign me. LOL. Patrick, A copyright is a lot better legal protection and studio protection then a WGA listing that only lasts five (don't quote me on this time frame) years, since not only would you not get paid, you wouldn't get those awards you crave so much. Copyrights last until well after you are dead. I have one of the top entertainment lawyers in the industry and he states that copyrighting is the right way to go. Some studios require WGA, but that is only AFTER you get a copyright.

What happened to Cory Parella's comment? Was it too incendiary? More to the point, was it true?

I've known Babz for 4 years and she is as hardworking and dedicated as they come. She also has working writers in her stable, one of whom is in the midst of having her second script in two years filmed.

Well now, while I take a moment to "settle down" here is the comment that was posted earlier by Cory that is NO LONGER on this thread. "Cory Parella - 5:28am Aug 8 Folks, she only signs vulnerable writers so she can Control their property. Just chatted with another writer who smelled something fishy. I hope the WGA pulls Babz' franchise...sorry to burst thy bubble, PJ." So, in an effort to "move forward" there are those on the Stage who would still like to know if Cory's statement is true or just a disgruntled opinion of one writer who is in a different career phase.

Here's the deal, folks. Debate is fine. Abuse is not. Misinformation is not. As mentioned, I have known Babz for 4 years. I know 2 writers who have signed with her. One of them has two scripts produced under her. The other one just got her script listed on the Tracking Board. None of these scripts is "controlled" by Babz. So that is simply a lie.

The more we think about it, the more we make script theft a reality. It's like, big boobs.

Copyright, script theft, and big boobs?...Huh?! ...Sounds more like a premise for a crime thriller -- WRITTEN IN BLOOD, After being seduced, betrayed and left for dead, screenwriter Xavier Pen and his creative team race to get their ideas on screen before their former ally does. (sounds better if read with a super cool voice over) :)

U.S. Copyright Office A form of protection provided by the laws of the United States (title 17, U. S. Code) to the authors of “original works of authorship,” including literary, dramatic, musical, artistic, and certain other intellectual works. WGA West Registration can be used as a supplement to a U.S. copyright, and it's fast, easy and convenient to register online. Key word supplement Thanks Babz x So is this a money making scheme? What's the point of the WGA? Will / might we have to repeat payments every five years to maintain this supplement? x

I had a similar forum topic a few weeks ago and glad to see more elaboration regarding it. All interesting points especially for a new writer such as myself. I finished my first pilot script and it seems better to just register with WGA and LOC and get it done and over with instead of mulling over the two.

If you copyright online, it's only $35 as compared to $65 by snail.

Pilar Alessandra did a great podcast on this a few years back. The take away for me was that WGA reg is like a time stamp, while copyright is the only thing that truly protects the work. And keep your email/paper trails well-filled.

*filed.

is there a copywrite division for north America or for the whole world for that matter

I recently heard of a well-known manager/agent in Hollywood telling his writing clients NOT to register or copyright and that it is a waste of time. ScriptCat wrote something similar in a recent blog, saying theft essentially never happens, so why bother to copyright. The fact that there is not more theft is likely DUE to the protections. These other people do not OWN your script--you do. Do you think that the manager is going to pay you when your script gets swiped? NO WAY. I have been told that putting WGA registration and copyright notices on my scripts makes me look like an amateur. Really? Then so be it. As a screenwriter and attorney, I was shocked. This is horrible, reckless advice. YES, the US Copyright internet site is unfriendly and difficult to use. Yes, it takes time. But you must use it. The goal to screenwriting is to get read. Sending your screenplay everywhere without protection is like continually shacking up without protection. Eventually, something bad is going to happen. Pay the $35 for copyright, spend the time, and get it done. Frankly, I register with WGA, AND copyright. For an extra $20, why not? Also, BTW, it takes me a good 5 months+ to write a feature. If you think I am not going to pay $20 (WGA) + $35 (copyright) you are crazy. What can it hurt? If someone is offended by the info on my title page, and that is enough to keep them from reading, buying my script, or working with me, then it is a blessing. They would be too picky, anal, and difficult to work with anyway. On the other hand, if someone does not think it is necessary, but will read my script anyway, then it does not matter that I spent the $55. The dude that is planning on stealing something may well think twice before doing it with the protections in place. The deterrent factor does not send you a report: You will never know when the protections deterred someone and worked like a charm. And if you ever do need to litigate, I pity the fool with no protection or only a "Poor man's copyright" trying to prove ownership to a jaded judge, especially against a person or company with a lot more money at hand to push their (wrongful) claim. On a final note, there was just a BLATANT multi-author plagiarism case on Amazon with a lot of money involved. Theft happens. Stop worrying about the $55 and protect your baby. JUST DO IT.

ill pay whatever to protect .doesn't apply to pen names though that's a drag

"... while copyright registration can take several months to process. Registration with the WGA is effective from the date they received it." That´s not entirely true: The registration with copyright.gov is also effective from the date you upload it. You´ll get an instant case number. The confirmation letter however takes about 2 months but that doesn´t matter in a case of infringement as long you have the case number.

Remember, if you get a buyer for your material, you will have to sign a transferal of copyright to the buyer. This is standard, because not only are they buying your material, they are also purchasing the copyright--you OWN the material, and copyright confirms that.

I was on the fence for years on this...but I think better safe than sorry...best to do both (wga & loc)!

This thread has been very informative. Newbie question: should I register my script as soon as I write "The End" on the first draft...BEFORE anyone sees it? Even if I'm just sharing with an intimate reading/writing group of less than 10 people? I ask because we're putting together some groups intended to share your work and receive feedback from fellow screenwriters. Or do you wait to copyright when it's sales-ready?

Every reputable contest either asks for, recommends, or demands copyrighting or registering prior to entry. They are smart.

Register it right away, then copyright after a good rewrite when it is pretty polished.

frank got it right for sure

Am I missing something? You work for weeks, months (some for years) writing something so why not use all the resources available to you to register it and protect your ideas? As soon as I finish a script I do both WGA and US Copyright. Total cost <$100 and WELL WORTH EVERY PENNY. Nothing leaves my hands without these in place. Could someone else claim they had the same idea/concept? Sure, but registration also establishes DATE of registration so if push ever comes to shove at least there is a legally-binding time stamp. I suppose if I could only afford to do one it would be US Copyright but for me, I keep my panties on with a belt AND suspenders.

Interesting thread. I've had ideas in my files for years--but they aren't fully-written stories (or even first drafts). I have seen some of these ideas on TV or film--not in my own story's entirety--but basic concept stuff. What's to say somebody doesn't think I stole their idea...when mine was years before theirs came into being?

DiDi, because they registered it first and you never did. Hence the importance of getting your work recognized legally.

But you can't copyright something that's incomplete, Hardy.

And that's more the motivation to complete your work and register it. I am sure there were plenty of writers who thought of a similar idea for Paranormal Activity or any other movie at one point in time but just saying "I had that idea before them, it's on my computer" isn't enough.

That's great (and usable) advice, Frank! Thanks!

Good advice. Where do we start? As one who is just starting out in the writing arena, Where do I start on getting copyrighted? Thanks in advance for any help!

I've been copyrighting my work since I started over 30 years ago. It's a GOOD thing. Technically, once you've written something and but the c in the circle in it, next to a date and your name, it's copywritten. The article is really referring to copyright registration in D.C. - that has a lot more merit in a court than a WGA board.

This was in a Yahoo Reply... Copyrighting a screenplay is the wrong thing to do. The reason that many writer do not copyright is because it's a speed bump in the selling process. And - if it's only a marginal thing in the first place, they could just say no. They're always looking for a reason to back out of a deal. The production company or the studio is the entity that copyrights, not the writer. If the writer copyrights, then lawyers have to get involved - which costs money - to get the copyright transferred to the company. It's a costly PITA. What professional screenwriters do is register their scripts. There are a few ways to do this, but the most commonly accepted way to do so is through the Writers Guild of America. Their registry site is here: http://www.wgawregistry.org/webrss/ If you're deadset on killing your career, you can copyright online through the U.S. Copyright office here: http://www.copyright.gov/ Whatever you do, DO NOT USE THE POOR MAN'S COPYRIGHT. Poor man's copyright is this mistaken belief that you can print out your script and mail it to yourself and that that will protect your script. It won't. If you try to use something like that, you'll be laughed out of any court in the land. Sending yourself a letter - registered, certified, dated or whatever only proves that you sent yourself an envelope; not that there was anything in the envelope. Register your work through the WGA. It takes about 5 minutes. Source(s): I'm a screenwriter.

Henry, with all due respect--that advice IS WRONG. When Showtime did my movie, it didn't cost a dime to do the copyright transferal--I signed the paper, that was it. I didn't hire a lawyer. But I had to have the copyright in my name in the US copyright office in order to transfer it. I fail to understand why this simple fact is creating so much drama.

I have heard comments both ways; however, I still get a copyright for my material. By the way, what are your qualifications for representation?

PJ --- I agree with you just saw another opinion....

Ric -- am I in the wrong chat?

?

What's the benefit of registering with WGA if you already registered with the U.S. Copyright office?

The WGA registration is only to show that you registered it with the WGA.

I wouldn't give anything I wrote to anyone with copyrighting it first. A WGAW makes a good garnish though.

I believe I have found the definition of mental masturbation...

Everyone's entitled to have their own rules, but as far as copyright is concerned, I've spoken to many entertainment lawyers about this, and none of them think it important to get a formal US Copyright unless and until you need one to sign it over to another entity. It's not a bad thing to have, but I generally just register w/ the WGA. Honestly, I hear a lot more noise about these issues from folks who are trying to sell/make their first project than from folks who have been embedded and making a living in the business. Just my 2 cents.

Regradless, this ageny has a made a decision.

Some years ago, I read some great articles and some great posts in other forums. Also, there have been several cases regarding this and copyright always holds up. From then on, I've copyrighted my scripts. And I've seen more and more agencies and produc. com's highly recommending this route.

If you are concerned about someone stealing while you are writing/filming, you can pre-register your script or film with the copyright office before completing it and getting a regular copyright.

I'm more focused on writing a great script than worrying about my material being stolen.

Somebody must have threatened her with a law suit, so she's pissed off. Getting Copyrights is important, but isn't that why you have an agent/agency to begin with? Allowing us to be creative and the agent/agency to do the lawyer work.

I still believe WGA registration is sufficient. It is the protection of choice among professional writers.

WGA alone is woefully INSUFFICIENT. Why is everyone so resistant to the idea of copyrighting? The law is there for a purpose. Also, agents and managers are NOT lawyers. They do not do "the lawyer work."

Such a heated debate. Why are many so ANTI-copyright? For less than $100 you can have WGA and LOC backing, end of story. Better to be safe than sorry.

I am an attorney, and am telling you to copyright. Period. End of story. Anyone who doesn't has no protection. Good luck with that.

Michael; want to help us with our copyrighting? we're open, can't find anybody where I live here in Idaho to do this kind of legal work.

Patrick, you do NOT need an attorney to copyright a script! It is all done online through the US copyright office. Takes maybe 10 minutes and (as I recall) about $35.

Thanks, just do it yourself for $35 on the government website. It is tedious, but not difficult.

yes I know but ours is a bit different find me in he phone book in Twin falls Idaho so we can chat out of this posting.

From WGA: --- Does registration take the place of copyright? Registering your work with the WGAW Registry does not take the place of registering with the Library of Congress, U.S. Copyright Office. However, both create valid legal evidence that can be used in court. Questions regarding copyright should be directed to the U.S. Copyright Office in Washington, D.C. at (202) 707-3000 or to an attorney specializing in that area of law. Click on www.loc.gov for more information. If I've already registered my material with the U.S. Copyright Office in Washington, do I need to register it with the Guild? Even if you have copyright through the Library of Congress, registering with the WGAW Registry creates a separate legal record for your material. In addition, you may consider registering treatments or drafts of your work-in-progress with our Registry prior to registering your final draft with the Copyright Office. --- However, a WGA registration is good for only five years.

BINGO ^^^^^ Thanks Dan. As I said, I am an attorney, so I think like your partner thinks. Don't understand the resistance. I guess that's why there are lawyers after all: no one wants to do things the right way, and they create a mess for the lawyers to clean up afterwards. Remember the old adage "An ounce of prevention beats a pound of cure." While you can still end up in court, doing things the right way will save money in the fight and help you win. BTW, as a great way to generate usable evidence in court, I save a new file, separately EVERY DAY I WRITE. Just use the work's name and the day's date. Simple, and it creates a superb trail of the creation of your work, all time-stamped. It also saved me today, as I had just written four scenes, and a massive lightning bolt caused a power outage. Computer was down in a flash, and Final Draft reverted to a version I had made days before. I went to my archive and found my new copy. Not a letter lost. :)

Glad to see my position raised so many contrary opinions. Controvercy is healthy.

mispelled controversy, sorry.

Hey, Cory, it's you and me against the throng. Majority doesn't make them right. Onward.

Hey Babz, I don't blame you. Why should you put your name to something, then get your ass kicked because of it. No use running bareback !!!! Get Protection !!!!!

This really only applies to the US, though? Here in Ireland, when something is created, be it book, script, movie, painting, anything, the copyright is automatically given to the creator. There is no need to register anything. It can be a grey area, but generally here, copyright is assumed rather than having to be proved. It's the same in the UK I believe. Hence I only register with the WGA as a matter of course, as many competitions require it, but I know I'm protected by my own country's law, as this is where the work originated. I could be completely wrong of course, and have screwed myself many times over... Oh well.

I haven't read all the responses; there are so many! I'd like to throw my five eggs in if I may and apologies if it has already been said. If Babz's agency says they won't accept any scripts unless they are US copyrighted with that authority it is no use anyone arguing or complaining. The agency calls the shots. You do it their way or you go somewhere else. Simple!

What I can gather here is Babz got stung in some legal crap over a screenplay. and now she's just being well, being her. I never use an agency, all our productions are done in house. My screenwriting is for our gigs only, and while I can see copyrighting being something to be included to protect your gift, still .

Dear Babz, you're right and you're dead wrong. If you register only the 15th first pages on WGA, there's no chance in the world that someone could steal your work. And I'm having problems with agencies as they tend to apply their own rules. But I have my own rules also, never send a script to an agency. I had an appointment with an attorney in MTL few years back, he told me to send all my scripts to an agency located in MTL. So, I have decided to investigate the agency, and to my surprise, it was a dead end with a fake office. Better yet, I keep my scripts hidden in a secret place waiting for the industry to show up at my door. And don't get me wrong, that's how they hire someone.

Amen Babz... I've got over 30 copyrights for my creative works (books, scripts, music, art). It's easy. If you send your material electronically, it's $30 cheaper, and the return-time for your official D.C. receipt arrives months faster... though your material is copyrighted officially the moment they receive it. Those who don't copyright with the Library of Congress don't realize the potential for claiming punitive damages should their material be illegally used. A WGA registration does NOT offer the same legal umbrella of protections (as told to me by two very sharp entertainment attorneys here near Detroit)

Great information, Thanks for posting about this! I recently had a TV show development situation where my lawyer advised I copyright immediately and I did - and it has been a lifesaver. Previously I only went to WGAW, but not anymore!!

@Dan Yes, but here there is no registration procedure, a script, for example, is copyrighted from when it's created. I think in Ireland the copyright law is more robust and less open to abuse. As far as I understand it. It's possible that by writing a script here, I'm far better protected by Irish copyright law even if it's an issue in the States. Again, as far as I know..!

@ Dan; Just checked and according to the Irish Copyright office, just sticking a 'c' symbol on the cover is more than adequate. Apparently. It seems so counter intuitive though.

Jacqueline - That kind of answers my badly asked question! But is there an actual need to register in the States if script is covered by Irish/UK law? I'm just really curious as to what the correct interpretation is, as I've always assumed I was covered anywhere by the simple fact it was written in Ireland, and the law here is quite robust!

Any time your script enters a new jurisdiction, it will be subject to conflict of laws rules that decide whose law will apply to any dispute arising in that jurisdiction. You never know where your script will end up if it is stolen. Ever emailed a script? More complication. The more protections you have in place the better. WGA (East/West no difference, except for the length of registration) and Copyright, go on my scripts. Why would anyone risk many months of work by not spending $35 is beyond me. You want to roll the dice with your hard work? Better safe than sorry.

My entertainment lawyer advised me to both copyright my script and register it with the WGA. A few minutes on each site saves you from a world of hurt later on! 8-)

http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html

Both Canada and US allow automatic copyright to original works without the need to register... according to sources of US Copyright and Canadian Copyright Offices, I've checked... WGA is simply looking for funds to continue their existence, neither of those organizations will help you for free. You are still left to fight the case in arbitration on your own penny, through your dues...for members only...

I think its safe to say that if you want Babz to be your agent then do what she wants...

The problem with running your own affairs is that you need to find your own customers. Not like you can just open a shop, put a sign over the door and people come to you asking to buy your scripts.

Thank you for this thread/discussion Babz. I'll look further into it as all I've done for now on my nascent writing efforts is WGA registration. I'm new to scriptwriting, so I'm also looking for suggestions on what I could read or where I could seek advice on writing for film as I'm also a researcher on obscure historical events that had significant changes in our world. One I'm currently working on occurred in the late 1880's that is practically buried with time and forgotten. Over the past year, I've compiled all of the research available on it and have a script 90% completed, but need guidance on what to do with it. Thanks. - Ric

I have a debatable question best answered by someone who has actually SOLD a Movie or represented one in a legal capacity. If you shoot a short, enter it into a festival, establish a website and name via registering the name with a Registrar before shooting. In this grand example, would the small Indy person be disqualifying themselves with a major label, due to NOT having the Copy write / chain of title. Albeit produced all in house? Or is that case by case, decided by the Golden Rule. "He who has the gold makes the rules." I realize the mentality of $55. bucks is a 'drop in the bucket', but I am curious about this. Lets say you shoot two to three shorts a year, to see what sticks, or goes viral if you will? That adds up after a while and if you do not mind small costs they add up to larger costs. Then there is the mentality of; "A copy write as well as a patent is only as good as the money you have to ague it in court." Sure insurance on everything makes sense, but have you ever been insurance poor?