Jorel Odell's Lounge Discussions

I think all 3 roles are crucial to creating an awesome film. The vision from the director, the look of the film to give it an emotion from the audience point of view by the DP, besides the acting. The PD also plays a roll because without a location including small details to create the concept the story would be poorly told.

Corey Robertson Too true. Do you have any suggestions on how a PD and a DP work together?

Honestly, I think the PD role overlooked moreso than any other role, but that may just be a symptom of cost-conscious decision-making. All too often the responsibilities of a PD are put on a director or producer in order to save money (and I've worked on a lot of indie shoots).

What I look for in a Director, I'd say... I look for a passion for film (all film) something similar to my own, and a deep understanding of the story they are about to tell. There have been far too many situations I've been in where the Director is just half baked, and almost always simultaneously being a control freak, and or being downright abusive. This all I think is nothing more than lack of confidence and simply being in far over ones head. It happens too much these days, and many of these projects, including a feature for Blumehouse I shot will likely never be seen by anyone.

Beyond that, I really love it when we can actually collaborate, and develop a shorthand on set that allows us to stay fluid as everything changes around us, but also identify those moments when the film is actually showing itself to us, while we are in the midst of the tempest, tossing us around like rag dolls, we look at each other from across the room in a moment and know, we just got magic, and we are on the right path, regardless of the changes that are happening around us.

Also I love it when a director is adept with the language of color; its many meanings and uses. This is far more important to me, than if they know focal lengths, or camera specifics, etc. Being able to dive deep into the thematics of color and the progression of color through the story in prep, and build many specific looks that we can take with us on the day, and actually proxy out dailies with something so close to the finished look that there is no confusion on anyones part downstream just how any particular scene should look.

LOVE this response, Jorel Odell! Sometimes when you don't know what the outcome will be, it nice to know that the experience is at least enjoyable. Not to say it won't be challenging, but that you feel valued and can contribute in a safe environment. Man, I just love the teamwork aspect of it! That give and take, the back and forth, the whole being more than the sum of its parts - yeah, that's what I live for.

I know this thread has been out for awhile, but I echo all these thoughts. Working as both DP and director I’ve learned much about collaborating and have been blessed to work with amazing people. The combined efforts of a group of talented people with a common creative goal can be spectacular.

Jorel Odell not sure our budget can swing a thousand a day, but I know you get what you pay for. I appreciate your input especially from a DP's perspective. Looks like we'll start somewhere between 500 and 700 and see who is interested.

Great advice Jorel Odell! I would second this and equally - don't skimp on an audio engineer, either!

Real rates start at a minimum $1000 per day for a real DP. Separate the person from the equipment, they are different and if you are not treating them differently there are other issues. There are lots of equipment rental companies to choose from. Different cameras have different looks so should be chosen based upon the needs of the project not what someone owns and then mistakenly applies to every project.

It is possible to get people on projects for less. Be honest about how much money you have available tot he project. If you lie, we will know and that doesn’t end well. Best is to be good friends with a DP. I’ve done a number of free/extremely low budget short projects for friends. Next would be if the content of the project is near and dear to the person you want. Much can be done for various reasons. There is also the meet and be a thoughtful real person, that has more impact than many think if can. I’ve agreed to projects I was prepared to say no to, just on the basis of meeting and talking to those involved. Meeting in person is worth vastly more than resumes and reels, it is an opportunity to explore aspects of each other and come away KNOWING whether the other person and you are a good fit. Try to arrange an in person meeting, then be yourself. It works very well for both people involved.

Andrew Sobkovich Thanks for these thoughts and insights. I really appreciate your input especially around the personal meetups and your experience there. unfortunately I know we cannot afford 1K a day for anyone, not sure how many short films can, but not this one. I do hope to find someone also passionate about the project, for sure. We haven't officially started our search, but when we do, I'll keep your advice in mind. Best regards,

Joe

Joe look for recommendations from people you know. Once you get names, arrange an intro as it is better than a cold-call. Meet the people. Since you don't have a lot of money, the person you want is someone who is interested in more than money. Pitch yourself and your story honestly. Many of us have said yes during such approaches for many reasons. People may say no for many reasons, some not always obvious. But if you don't ask they cannot possibly say yes. There is a basic approach in low budget work of throwing creativity at a problem instead of throwing money. Finding a DP is just another problem.

This is stunning!! <3

As technologist I can't say that a wide dynamic range or high resolution is a bad idea. The market is moving into this direction. But I don't think would change for drama movies or comedies. But I must say it's an absolute for action and scifi movies.

IMO the most important factors are the look. I'm not as concerned in most cases about the accuracy of the color as I am about how pleasing it looks. Resolution is a fringe benefit rather than a primary criterion, and factors like sensitivity and dynamic range affect how easy it is to use. As Andrew pointed out, having switched from a camera with a base ISO of 200 and a dynamic range of 12 stops to a camera with a base ISO of 800 and a dynamic range of 16 stops, things just became easier. A 1K through a scrim was now enough light to get an exposure that required a 2K open face without modifiers, so I have a lot more latitude for sculpting the light without needing bigger and more expensive fixtures.

I think it really comes down to the project you are rolling on. I own and shoot on a mirrorless GH5 in a cage with follow focus, shotgun mic, and a monitor for my personal work. My rig is setup so I can quickly snap it into a fluid head and slider or lift it off and go shoulder mounted. It’s a one man camera and the 4K and 10-bit is a lovely bonus. It works great on sets that need short setup times. I’ve worked with the Alexa classic and it is a 2-3 person tank of a camera. If you have the time where you might get 25 setups a day then opt for that kind of shooting. If you need to get 45-50 setups, use a cam that is light and nimble. I know of a couple other DPs that swear by Sony A7S cams who have done features and they look incredible. Really very few people have ever seen an image and have been able to tell what it was sourced off of. My last short had people wondering if I ran a full sized sensor camera.

Lots of variables. Are you doing color correction afterward? More control in post, higher cost... Talk is the day is coming when everybody is going to want 4k. That day is not today. I shot a film a year ago with 4K. For the most part, the detail in 4k is only going to show up in a theater. For that reason, I edited in 2K, which was awesome for editing because is gave me a ton of flexibility. If I have a choice in the future, I will shoot 4k, simply for that reason. We used a Sony A7, which was great in low light conditions...

Almost every film nominated for an Oscar this year was shot at 2k or max 3.8k. THE K's DO NOT MATTER!!!! 35mm print, scanned is a 2.5k image. We've never needed more than that and we never will need more than that. Large Format is wonderful to have, but only for key moments, like large establishing shots with the compression of a portraiture lens. You see this often. Even many films said to be shot on the Alexa 65 were only using the Alexa65 maybe 30% of the time. All of the normal coverage in-scene is still captured at 3.8k on an Alexa Mini.

To support this idea, remember that most 4k TVs are Upsampling a 1080 image to 4k... guess what. It looks amazing. 3.8k upsampled to 8k is the same darn thing. Looks amazing.

This is a deep habit hole, and there are many more issues to consider. Size and depth of each pixel is a big one... and the affects smaller pixels have on Moire, Halation, and other issues that actually make sharp edges far more blurry and therefore terrible for VFX.

Check out Steve Yedlin's amazing study in Resolution and Deliverables on YouTube. (He's the DP from a little film called Star Wars: The Last Jedi) He kinda knows what he's talking about. ;)

Awesome, well done!

Thank you Sadie!

Thanks John!

Ummm dude. You are awesome! Where's your website? Contact info?

Thanks a lot Jorel! Unfortunately I don't have a website but you can definitely contact me at lucaniaaudiovisual@gmail.com or through whatsapp +595971749951. You have great work yourself, very high quality!

Nice pacing Jon! I can't watch the whole film just at the moment. But I really enjoyed the first 10 minutes so far. Great job for a micro budget!!!

Thanks Jorel!

Hey Jorel - great to meet you and welcome to the community! I recommend you watch the free webinar this Tuesday as it will have great information on how to best use Stage 32, plus some awesome interviews with industry experts to give you some advice and tips to further your career. you can read more about it here: https://www.stage32.com/blog/On-Stage-With-RB-October-2015-Announced

Hey Jorel make sure to check out the JOBS section (on the top menu bar) when you're looking for work! All the best :)

Ok, thanks Shannon!