Financing / Crowdfunding

Hi Geoff

As I understand it you either set up a company XYZ films ltd to fund a number of films, X film, Y film and Z film, the benefits of this are you are spreading the risk of any individuals investment across three films, a third of the investment on each film. You would still use a limited company structure for each individual film; X film ltd, Y film ltd & Z film ltd, to protect the investment company, XYZ films ltd. If you are using the investment for a single film you set up X film Limited to fund X film which lives or dies on the success of the X film.

Just to add, once you have made X film, Y film and Z film the investment SEIS vehicle “XYZ films ltd” is done, you wind it up and share the profits. If you want to make A film, B film, C film, you set up company ABC films ltd to fund the next tranche. If your investors made money from XYZ ltd they can reinvest in ABC ltd.

Gregory Mandry Thanks Gregory, so, deep breath…if I want to create a Ltd company, that outlives HMRC’s time limit (3 years) what can you do? Do you have an umbrella corporation XYZ Films Ltd and then also set up another Ltd company for each film? Which then are dissolved an its assets shared amongst investors and directors? Sorry, I did say this was Film Finance 101!

Hi Geoff

Wheels within wheels, I run a limited company called “Production Company Ltd” if I want to make a film I start a ltd co called “Film X Ltd”.

This can be SEIS compliant and people can invest in this under the SEIS HMRC regulations. It is a special purpose vehicle (SPV) to make the film and in this case it will be SEIS compliant, to receive SEIS funding. It’s a limited company so that it protects the parent company Production Company Ltd should it all go belly up.

Production Co Ltd can own or part own Film X Ltd depending on how you want/have to structure the ownership. It always used to be the case that to be SEIS compliant investors (I haven’t checked in a good while) were not allowed to have a controlling influence.

But you can introduce a third company “Film Investment Ltd”. This is an SPV that seeks to invest SEIS compliant money in film production in this case you would set the parameters of the investment: could be 1 film but can be a slate of films if agreed with the investors – this is a good option as it spreads risk over a number of projects.

You now have Production Company Ltd that can own/part own Film Investment Ltd and X film ltd. The purpose of having them all as ltd companies is to isolate the companies from each other. X film Ltd can bomb and make a loss, but this does not affect Film Investment Ltd going on to invest in the rest of the slate of films. All of the films can bomb, Film Investment ltd can go bust, but Production Company Ltd can continue to trade.

I’m not a film lawyer or an accountant this is just stuff I picked up along the way, so it is definitely worth seeking professional help, things always change. But, this is the general principle and reasons for doing it. Ultimately it is worth talking to a lawyer.

Incredible crowdfunding page, Eliah Miller! Congratulations to you and your team on getting to 44% funded! Thanks for sharing the realities of crowdfunding and takeaways. Wow, I didn't know that emails make up 30% of funding for Seed&Spark campaigns and social media contributes less than 1%! I thought social media would be the biggest percentage.

Thank you so much Maurice! There is so much more I can say and maybe will for a later post. It’s definitely not for the faint hearted and there is a lot of neglect on just all crowdfunding entails especially for shorts since investors are out of question for the most part. If you have any questions let me know! Also if you can contribute any amount & share this post it be greatly appreciated.

You're welcome, Eliah Miller. "Extremely Close Yet Awfully Far" is a unique title. I'll try to donate soon, and I'll share about your campaign on Twitter/X.

Rodriguez volunteered to be a human tester for drugs, just to raise money for his movies.

Kevin Smith used his student loans to make movies.

Jon Kasdan asked his dad for $2M to make a feature.

Lol I met a porn star who used her talent to get free sound stage sets & equipment :)

I pawned my car & jewerly to cover payroll :(

I also was just reminded that M. Night Shamalan mortgaged his house to pay for The Visit. I have also heard of films being funded by ...being a "spicy pharmacist."

Tom Lapke - the spicy Pharm approach seems much better than the mortgaged house. :~) ha ha join Lionsgate as a young man and learn the system sounds wise to me.

(or some other of the big name Film companies)

I find begging on street corners helps…well, a little!

When we were trying to make our first indie film back in '97, before emailing lots of attachments was possible, I needed 100 Xerox copies of our script, 100 copies of our business plan and 100 VHS dubs of our DP's reel to make physical packages to send out to potential investors. I socialized my way into the mail room at a big ad agency through a high school friend and struck a deal with the guy who ran the mail room - and the agency softball team in the ad league. I played 3rd base as an "intern" on the team and got all of my packages made, which I sent to 100 people I thought might support us with a deeply personal note... we raised enough money to get started. Not enough to finish the movie - it was a non-stop hustle - but it got us started. And the team lost by a few less runs than normal in my tenure at the hot corner, which was a great athletic achievement as well. Indie films always have to find a way.

Martha Porter Fiszer hi Martha, from what I’ve heard, 30 days might be a little too short a time span.

From what I’ve heard, 30 days is fine. you’ll get most pledges in the first few days and last few days.

$130k is a big ask, though. For a short? that doesn’t add up.

One of the ways you can give yourself the best chance at raising your goal is to plan for a whole campaign and not just the start of it. Back when people did these campaigns a lot it would often be the case that they'd make all their materials for the launch of the campaign (when most of the money is typically raised) and then you'd get emails from friends in the last 72 hours asking if you can help them over the finish line. If you can generate enough material to keep your campaign interesting and engaging over the whole course of it, it'll remind people who are "maybes" thet you're still out there and encourage people who have engaged already to share it. The Super Troopers 2 campaign was particularly well managed in this regard.

Yep, good input Ewan Dunbar. I'm creating a social calendar to keep the momentum going.

I hope this is not spamming, if this is not late then hit me with all details I need to know as regards to escape plans, repayment strategy and others @ junlu@microsecondperformance.com

Great for UK and Europe, sucks for American economy. Feels like Disney book keepers are sending production overseas to save money.

Look at Disney stocks, it's down since Covid 2020 and U.S. amusement parks attendance are also down.

Dan MaxXx well, I think they are investing in the market, to try and give themselves a future. Why is it bad for the American economy, when an American company invests globally?

Mind you, there’s very little that they produce that I watch.

Geoff Hall, we have a list of some revenue streams

Cinema

Streaming platform

Exclusive viewing

Airlines

Etc.

We will appreciate your advise...

Oliver Quansah yes, that’s all very familiar, but it’s not a guarantee of £600k income. It’s a bit like a wish-list.

It may be better to raise development funding, hire a casting director to get some quality talent on board and then leverage that to raise your production budget, which needs to include marketing and distribution costs.

Hello Geoff Hall, I have all the information in my pitch deck. Some bankable cast and marketing and distribution micro budget. Is there a way I could share my pitch deck with you?

Oliver Quansah Hi Oliver, I’m not really the one you need to share it with and at the moment I’m rammed with a thousand and one other things. Sorry.

Sure... I understand...

Tommy Luca but now, it’s a different game, or is it really? After all, there’s still a room, an exec, a pitcher, a concept and hopefully some talent that’s interested in coming on board. Oh, I suppose we ought to add to that a ‘reputation’. What in your mind has changed, Tommy?

Hi Willem Elzenga - I believe the assumption here was that Charles V Abela is neither a producer nor director (or anyone else other than a spec writer), which I feel validates most of the responses advising yes, the first 15 pages (even 10) can be the difference between very busy people with stacks on their desk reading on or tossing it.

Myself, I try to stick to a self-imposed 5-page rule. Like Ewan Dunbar implied - how long will an audience wait to be hooked? And like a fishing trip in the gulf stream off the Outer Banks, hook 'em fast and often :-)

Matthew Kelcourse hey there, its collaborative art and being busy is a mindset. but you go make movies the way you want, I luckily have my own thoughts about it.

Thank you Geoff Hall, Ewan Dunbar, Willem Elzenga, Matthew Kelcourse. Matthew you’re spot on, maybe it’s a short previous message from me to you, but he probably was aware as to what was hinting to. I am a simple screenwriter. By profession, I was a business person for over 20 years, not as a consultant, but with real costs for computers, people (9), and for rental offices in Sydney. I am only saying this so you understand that I look at numbers. My strong belief is, if through extraordinary piece of luck, a logline/script/treatment captures the attention of the “entrepreneurial” film producer, director, whoever decides (and truly I don’t know)… is this within the intuitiveness of that person to say, “This can make or this is dead.” I am only the screenwriter and I would like to pass it on and say “This is yours, Mr Entrepreneur. I am happy to do the changes for no fees, as long as you confirm that you will produce it and my name is on the Credits. And, yes, you can keep all the fees. It’s an ego trip for me. And, I will not spend one more cent on it.” That’s it, warts and all. So effectively, it’s the initial fifteen minutes of his time. He or she would spend far more time analysing other business propoositions and problems. Gentlemen, if you can shed some further light on this, then that would be helpful. You may ask, how am I going to do it… the hard way, targeted emails and telephone calls. (I can hear “Sotto voce” from you to me… good luck buddy!). Do you know such an entrepreneur? I truly apologize for the verbosity.

Charles V Abela I don't get clue from what your writing, I am a simple writer, whoever decides you truly don't know..I feel you guys know maybe how to write, but don't really understand the dynamics of how movies are made. my advice to you is to write a book instead of writing and selling a screenplay. a book you can produce, publish and market yourself. generally speaking with movies you can't.

Willem Elzenga As I said, it's just ego trip for me. I simply want to find out whether it can work or not. Writing novels, well I have written 4, they are gathering dust on the Amazon Shelves. I never bothered to market them. Just a creative urge in my old days. However, you still have to go through the hoops and then you sell 400 over four years and make a princely sum of $2000. Take all the designers, artists, editors, formatting fees, and you end up with minus zero. And that is just as hard. The reward often is a few copies to adorn the bookcase. So, I tend to hold a very different view "of the dynamics how movies are made,” that you have mentioned. AND SAYING THAT WITH NO DISRESPECT WHATSOEVER to your own view. And I am sure most people hold the same view. However, I have always cut my own deals. Whether setting up a Direct Marketing Company, a Japanese Translation Company, a Japanese Serviced Office. Even the first Web Design Service. My server was an Apple Computer 1400 bps. Did I struggle, hell yes. I just have a go. They were all new businesses set up. Even the Yellow Pages did not carry these services, they were new. That was over 35 years ago. I always go to the top, and cut the deal myself. No formulae, no books, “No Hope and Fear” that is the basis of selling. Call it University of Hard Knocks. I AM SAYING THIS BECAUSE I believe it can be done. But it needs a smart talking salesperson (not me!) to talk to the Hollywood Man directly. He has to be connected. I am not. I hope when you look at it the way I do, you possibly would agree. Sure it’s 10 mountains to climb. That’s why the chances of success is 00.1% (roughly). I hope this sheds new light from the general consensus’ view. To be honest, I am feeling guilty, I am taking too much of your time. Thanks.

Thank you so much Maurice Vaughan I will be posting updates on my IG @samitanandyofficial and @cmcs_media!

You're welcome, Dr Samita Nandy. I just followed both profiles. My profile is new. I still have to add a picture and bio.

Looking forward to staying connected there as well as on Stage 32 - proud of your contributions and insights

This is completely inspiring, Dr Samita Nandy! So incredibly cool that you are crafting a feature film from the short you originally intended to make. Bravo! Maurice shares some great advice. I also recommend this Stage 32 webinar on how to get your project into film festivals - Greg Sorvig is an amazing recourse: https://www.stage32.com/education/search?term=festival&h=how-to-get-your...

I am not sure how old you are, but perhaps you remember the early iPhone campaigns when people were still being educated on what an "app" was, Apple came up with the slogan, "There's an app for that." In my tenure here at Stage 32, I have quickly learned that if you need to learn something having to do with Film and/or TV production, well, "there's a class for that" (or in this case a lab). I think this lab coming up, which is being taught by Sara Elizabeth Timmins, and is titled Stage 32 7-Part Pitching Lab: Create Your Feature Film Investor Pitch Deck is exactly the help you need. Not only will you have a top producer guiding you on creating your pitch deck, but you will also have full access to her via email throughout the entire 7-week lab. It is pretty remarkable! Let me know if you have any questions. Myself and the Education Team are always here to help. Here is a direct link: https://www.stage32.com/education/c/education-labs?h=stage-32-7-part-pitching-lab-create-your-feature-film-investor-pitch-deck

1) Have a clear transaction. People pay and get something for what they pay.

2) Follow through and deliver on promises.

3) Be clear and consistent in your communications about the project.

As for the marketing aspect, make an entertaining short (less than 3 minute) video that explains the project and why people will benefit from contributing. Not why you need the money, but why the audience needs the product.

The most thorough and realistic advice I’ve heard about Kickstarter comes from the Comiclab podcast. Look through their back episodes for ones about crowdfunding.

Remember, first comes the crowd, then comes the funding. If you don’t have access to a large audience, or a hook to find new audiences, don’t expect money to roll in.

I love all this! Thank you for sharing. We believe we have a very unique way of offering value to those who are participating in the production of the film. We have an amazing proof of concept, in which we traveled overseas to shoot and to also R&D. Our concern going forward was that most films do not offer any 'true' value to anyone. We believe we have changed that. We want to be sure we are effectively able to reach as many people as we can and add something for everyone.

Thank you again for sharing. We look forward to any offerings anyone may have.

Kind Regards, dan

You're welcome, Dan Rizzuto. Hope the campaign gets funded!

Thank you, Maurice Vaughan ... I will be sure to keep everyone updated. We are truly excited about how we are planning out going about it. Kind Regards Maurice.

You're welcome, Dan Rizzuto. Ok, great!

Unfortunately, it's quite a bit more complicated than it seems, Matt Watters. But Stage 32 members are always welcome to promote their crowdfunding campaigns to other members in the Stage 32 Your Stage Lounge or on your Stage 32 Wall to your network!

Ashley Renee Smith I'm sure it is. Seed&Spark seem to be generating lots of interest.