Screenwriting : Short Film Script Feedback (5pp) by Joe Giambrone

I'll give you notes later tonight (Aussie time)

Lisa, have you ever heard the phrase, "constructive criticism"? Look it up sometime. That was not constructive.

Well if you've seen it before it must have a title. No? No. I didn't think so. Did I mention this was a "little" film, zero budget, and something that I could feasibly pull off? But nevermind, Lisa, move on.

I don't care about the volumes of notes you've given to others, that has nothing to do with this story. If you can't offer anything constructive then don't offer anything.

I said tonight, Aussie time. I don't work on Lisa time.

Shutter, a feature length film from 2008? "A newly married couple discovers disturbing, ghostly images in photographs they develop after a tragic accident. Fearing the manifestations may be connected, they investigate and learn that some mysteries are better left unsolved." There's another Shutter from 2004: "A young photographer and his girlfriend discover mysterious shadows in their photographs after a tragic accident. They soon learn that you can not escape your past." Several shorts called "Shutter" have no relevance... and neither do the features apparently. You've heard of the concept of "plot?"

Oneil, as the director, I find the direction completely necessary. What about the story?

Silent Hill? No. Not even close. What's the same about it?

It's about a mother going through hell to get her daughter back. Again, plot.

Yeah, Wind Chill is a movie with ghosts. Hit and Run is a short script with ghosts. Why not post one of your own masterpieces, Lisa? The one with all the elements you claim mine lacks?

"that's why i brought up WIND CHILL. it came to mind 2nd." The point was to show you're full of it. Your comparisons aren't relevant. You claim you'd seen it before, but the plot is unique, or at least hasn't been called out by you. So you're just slinging mud. Pierre's first response was most apt.

Alle. Seriously? Formatting crap? We're talking story, I would hope. 3) Establish what Character fears most to lose I think when he kills a kid this is more than obvious. I know reading text and seeing it up on the screen are two totally different experiences, but come on. 4) Establish the event Check. 5) Give the girl purpose That is one issue. Her purpose is revenge, obviously. But it's not clear until the very end. 6) Give the man remorse or significant change in his life. Perhaps this could be punched up. 7) don't kill him, it's a cheap device... Wrong.

Alle, I responded to the relevant story points you made. I do hate the smarmy tsunami that ensues whenever screenplays are discussed. That's why I usually avoid this sort of thing. As for the endless, myopic religious devotion to the Courier font what more is there to say? I'm directing this on my own dime, as was abundantly clear. I'll put it on the page however I like. Shocking beyond belief, I know. Who will think of the children? You say you wrote this hit and run story already? Fine. Who can argue with that?

Alle, are you still on about the goddamned typeface? Do you not see how utterly douchey such conversations are? You think you're telling me something? I've been writing screenplays for 25 years. I posted for feedback on the story. I couldn't give a crap about the rest. It's pathetic that ego-bolstering screenwriters (touting their alleged awards and producer connections no less) obsess on format. It's predictable, done to death, really. Isn't that the real sin? You didn't like my script. It didn't do it for you. That's fine. But you can get off your high horse. I'm truly not impressed.

Alle, I responded (and responded about responding!) to your several relevant observations, and yet you keep mischaracterizing. You also have this annoying one-dimensional obsession over the typeface. Numerous others with some minor connection to "the bleeding industry" obsess over this and make it a badge of some sort. Should I spell it out for the third, fourth, fifth or however many times it takes to register with you? It calls into question the soundness of your judgment, or perhaps your sanity. Here it is again, in black and white: My 5 page script, that I may direct, right here, in my town, with a couple of others, is beyond your ideas about formatting. There it is. It is in a completely different universe and it will never, ever, ever, ever be relevant. Yet you persist in distracting with the most trite, banal, and useless comments about fonts, for fuck's sake. If all you are is a font Nazi, wrapped up in the superficial and the trivial, well then why do I care? You are one opinion, and I've acknowledged your ideas. You can move on now. For God's sake, move on.

Joe, notes as follows. This is the story of a man who kills a young girl while driving home drunk one night and the revenge enacted by the girl’s spirit. I see by other comments you made in your post that your intention is to produce and direct this story yourself. That, combined with the fact that you seem to strenuously object to any mention of formatting issues means that I am going to leave all formatting issues out of this review except to say that regardless of whether you directing your own shorts or not, if you want to interact with the film industry at any time in your career, you must adhere to correct formatting. That said, the odd formatting issue may pop up in this review. One thing to bear in mind is that a screenplay is used by everyone involved in the production and not just the director. The actors take their cues from this as well as the DP, First Assistant Director, Sound technician, Lighting, set design, SFX, Editors, etc so the writing MUST be clear in order for everyone to be on the same page during production otherwise the production will be a nightmare. Notes I made as I read through. These are merely my observations, take what you want and ignore the rest: P1 – “THE MAN charges out, pissed off, irrational” How is he irrational? What does he do to show us he is irrational? An actor will read this and he won’t know how he’s meant to act this part. He can storm out and kick the trashcan on his way as none of that requires dialogue but writing “he is irrational” implies an action or dialogue which is contrary or exaggerated to what is going on around him. P1 – The dialogue of character named VOICE should be (O.S.) as that character will not be on camera. I know this is a formatting issue but actors need to know what’s going on so they can do their job. If the actors don’t know if they will be on camera or not until you tell them during the shoot, then it makes it so much harder for them and you won’t get the performance you will require from them. P1 – “The Man fumbles with his keys, drops them. Too drunk”. Make it clear when we first see him that he is drunk, don’t get part way through the scene before revealing details we should know at the start. P1 – “Into door lock” This sentence, on it’s own, doesn’t make sense. I assume you’re talking about the key sliding into the door lock? It might seem pedantic to you but it’s not clear. P1 – “POV:” Who’s POV? The Man’s, the Dog’s? It might be clear in your mind but it won’t be in anybody else’s. The same goes for the end of this sentence being, “..focusing to the left as it disappears” Is this the dog focusing to the left or the camera? P2 – “The Dog howls” followed by the line, “Reaches for the door handle”. This reads like the dog reaches for the door handle. P2 – “Ahhh!”. I’d be inclined to change this to “ARGH!” as the former sounds more like an “Ummm!” rather than a yell. P3 – I don’t see your character taking the time to brush his teeth. He’s just killed a young girl and driven away from the scene of the crime and covered up the evidence. I can’t imagine anybody in that position, brushing their teeth and getting ready for bed, so to me, this character lacks realism. Maybe he should start drinking at this point rather than in the bar earlier? After all, I don’t see the alcohol playing a real part in the girl’s death. The man was distracted by the dog, which I assume the girl was chasing? So this could easily occur when he was sober. So he panicked or perhaps he has a reason for fleeing the scene? Give us something more dramatic about the man’s backstory and once he’s home, then he can hit the booze in a big way until he passes out. P3 – “The Man climbs into bed … Tosses, turns”. This reads like he got into bed then started tossing and turning immediately but I assume he is asleep now and some time has passed? If so, the script needs to show us that time has passed. Once again, your actor will simply climb into the bed and start tossing and turning straight away unless you specify otherwise. P3 – “(magnets?)”. Is this for your benefit to work out how to open the wallet? I’m not sure why it’s there but questions should never appear in action lines. P3 – “INSERT: Headlights flare”. I don’t know what visual you’re trying to show. P4 – The Man seems to be more concerned about the ghost of the girl taking his licence rather than the death of the girl that he caused. For the purpose of your story, you need to get the man out of the house but I don’t think this works. If he’s that frightened of her then he can simply report it lost and order another so I don’t buy the fact that he seems to be acting as though he can’t let this licence out of his sight. You should find another way for the girl to get the man out of the house, something more genuine rather than running off with his licence. P4 – “The front door opens and slams shut”. Do ghosts use doors? This threw me as it seemed a little comical so I think the mood of this story is being lost. P4 – “..wearing nothing but shorts..” This needs to be made clear when we see him get out of bed or even as he is getting into bed earlier. Don’t describe what we are seeing well after the fact. P4 – I’m guessing the girl is leading the man out in order to enact a form of revenge? P5 – “The Man realizes..” This is Unfilmable as the actor won’t know how to portray, “realizing something” Overall: I know this is simply a supernatural ghost story rather than a horror but a ghost story should actually be scarier than a horror. It should make the hair stand up on the back of your neck. This didn’t do it for me as I couldn’t buy into the almost instantaneous revenge of the girl’s ghost. To me, this story seemed rushed as though you were trying to wrap up a longer story in four and a half pages. This script needs more story in order to pull it off successfully. Give us a reason why the man wouldn’t report the accident. Give us a legend to the little ghost girl. Give us something that sends a shiver up our spine. Don’t sacrifice quality by rushing out a production. Possible solution: What if, instead of the man killing the girl, the girl is already dead? What if there is an existing legend of the ghost girl and she is seen every night on the anniversary of her death? What if only the kids believed it? What if the accident is re-enacted this night, after all these years? The ghost girl tries to catch her ghost dog as it runs across the road and a tired two-bit crim returning home after a night of burglaries, swerves to avoid hitting a dog and hits the girl instead not knowing that the girl is already dead because being an adult, he doesn't believe in ghost stories. He’s racked with guilt but can’t go to the cops. He continues home, gets drunk and falls asleep only to be woken by a little girl calling for her dog outside his bedroom window. He can’t believe the girl’s alive so he chases her, wanting to make sure she’s okay but he can’t quite catch her until he finally catches up but stops when she turns to him showing her caved in head. He’s stunned and BANG! Gets cleaned up by a car himself. Just a suggestion but to me, it plays more to the spooky feel.

I know what you did last summer is a similar movie. But it's the elements that are all too familiar. What is the kid doing in a white dress? Why is she laughing? Why does she appears and disappear randomly? I men the only reason you wrote those things is because you've seen it done. What if the little girl had a dinosaur costume on and She travels in a transparent giant red ball. Whenver she appears, you hear the "click" of a cassette player and a man speaks to your character in that grainy cassette way. Lol. Clearly I'm just shooting random ass ideas but you have to get original man. What you have now is such a tired concept. I never feared, or cared for the guy or girl. And the ending is predictable. If you have a good child actress and a trained dog. Lights to shoot at night. You should try and write something more original. Our get someone to write for you if you're out of ideas.

I think ghost stories always have the potential to grab an audience, no matter how many times that particuliar type of ghost has been exploited. So the logline of "the spirit of a child killed by a drunk driver who refused to help her seeks revenge" would grab my interest. A few possible considerations to think about: 1. I think it would play better if the revenge-seeking second act begins the next day. He should wake up, be shocked over what he did, and maybe hear the news story on his local radio station while at the breakfast table and display guilt. Maybe then he takes a shower, and we see his wallet opening and the license being removed (if that's possible from your production standpoint). Maybe he's at work and notices his license is missing. Maybe he needs it to buy some more booze the next day and notices his license is missing. But I think the torment should begin the next day, and we should see his angst-ridden and guilty responses better fleshed out before the vengeance begins. 2. Then that next night, the vengeance begins and he sees the license in the window. Additional scary things start happening in the house. Then he runs out to the scene that leads to her vengeance and his death. 3. I also think, for some extra oomph, that in the beginning scene, when he kills her, that maybe he initially runs to her aid, and she holds her hand out, and says something like "help me, please don't leave me" and he instead runs away, and we see her hand fall to the ground as she dies. Then, in the ending scene, when he gets run over, the person that hits him initially runs to his aid, and the dying man holds his hand out, and says "help me, please don't leave me", and the person also runs away, and we see the dying man's hand fall to the ground when he dies. The implication would be established that "what comes around, goes around...and around...and around." Good luck!

I was thinking about this last night, obviously. There's a major aspect to this story that people have missed. I don't believe in ghosts. The ghost isn't real. She's a manifestation of his guilt. He doesn't have remorse, and neither does she. He has suppressed guilt. I'll bring in more police sirens and paranoia, and stretch it out to a second night.

And him having no guilt is what the story is about. It's good to understand that up front if you're going to fire off a bunch of irrelevant notes. That's the core of the story, and the first draft is very sparse and short. Technically, I don't kill him. He kills himself.

Yeah, sure. Where is it?

It's important that the man gets a good view of the girl's face in the moment before he hits her. He needs to recognise her later.

I think this is a good idea and structure, but the heart of it isn't explored. She takes a Driving License to tempt him out of the house? I'd be scared shitless. Why would I care about a DL? She has to engage him and cause him to reveal whether he is following her out of guilt or because he wants his personal possessions back. She has to intrigue him or put a spell on him to get him out of there towards that road. She should also chose to cause him to be run over on the basis of whether he has shown guilt or not, ie, does he deserve to die or deserve to be saved.

Good stuff, Dan. But the license is much more than an object.

Version 2 is now posted. https://joegiambrone.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/hit-and-run-short-2-0.pdf I considered a calligraphy font just to piss off Alle, whom you know is going to read it. Spite is a strong motivator.

I guess it's less cheap than your falsetto complaints. Things to be afraid of: arrest prison, rape, death, insane hallucinations. Is it too abstract to bring a couple neurons together and notice that the license has all sorts of associated meanings? It's also evidence, should it show up in the wrong place. Like I said, your endless rants about the script have been noted. You can go away now. I'm actually starting to really like this project, since it has the ability to piss off people whom I really don't mind pissing off. So... piss off.

I’m late to this party, but I’ll offer my two cents anyway – I specialize in writing shorts and I really like paranormal (and comedy.) Format first because it’s easy to fix – Courier 12 point (easy), tighten up the line spacing (lots of wasted space) – another easy fix. Story arc next – more difficult. You have two characters – conflict – the man’s arc? The girl’s arc? Several ideas come to mind; the man goes from a drunken ner-do-well to a virtuous soul volunteering in a children protective service program while the girl goes from a vengeance seeking ghoul to a guiding, forgiving soul. Or if you want to torment the guy, have him turn himself in only to be haunted by the girl in his cell – ends with his suicide? (Down ending, personally I like up endings.) In either case, you can’t do this as a 5 page skit but I see it as a 15 to 20 page short that could be produced on a pretty modest budget.

Joe: what kinds of emotions are you trying to elicit from a viewing audience who is watching this onscreen?

Hi Doug. I want to avoid 15+ pages and modest budgets. I like the cell block thing, but I can't easily get one to film in. I'm probably just going to film it as written (with a new bonus scare I thought of today). Leaving him alive would change the meaning a bit, I think. Hi Linda. There's something very subtle and unnerving about the ending, however he arrives there. People will be rooting for this girl, who doesn't exist, to prevail--sadism, vengeance, that sort of thing. I want them to consider the implications of it. Their own sinister little thoughts and desires. It's a haunting where they are brought into the process imagining what they want to happen, where they want it to go, and I'm giving it to them, even though it may not be what they expected. I think that's why some people didn't like it, which is fine. It subverts expectations (those who understand it, anyway), and that's why I'm pretty definitely going to make it. It is in fact not like any of the candidly tossed off titles above. Not sure why I had to suffer through a list of irrelevant, superficial comparisons. It will, however, be like some OTHER films, psychological tales of madness. I suppose I'm not allowed to make it because there may be some semblance to one of them? There were some utterly ridiculous things said above, and I'm not sure why anyone would want to subject themselves to more of that peanut gallery bickering. Shakespeare did ghosts. Dickens too. I guess the genre's dead. Can't do that, for some reason.

Alle is this some sort of therapy to you? I thought you went away.

No Allie, I’m not co-writing his story – just trying to point out a few as yet unopened story doors. I too could easily reduce his “script” to a couple of tight pages and were he in one of my classes I would gladly show him how or even do so (for free.) But he’s not. There is a hard edge to professionalism that I’m sure you (and I) understand but I get the impression that Joe’s not quite ready for the rough handling. I simply try to offer guidance – not co-writing. Having said that Joe; your five pages fall into the “skit” category that is in reality (I hate this word – but I can’t think of one better) the inciting incident from which you develop your story and character arcs (yes, for both the MAN and GIRL – A story & B story.) It’s really not a 5 page script but I think a strong story could be done in a really tight 15 to 20 pages. It could be produced as a low/no budget project on an EXT. Gorilla shoot. INT. shoots could be in a bedroom and you can easily convert a garage/basement into a jail cell. You have a good story kernel that can go in all sorts of ways. Now, go write it. Oh by the way, the paranormal genre still has strong audience appeal. The ghosts aren’t dead yet. I have a similar story going right now that would keep Stephen King awake at night.

You can call it a "skit" if you like. I'm actually very tired of overlong "short" films that go on forever. Five to seven minutes is all I care to sit through. After that they tend to annoy the hell out of me. I feel there could be one more revelation to tip the audience off, near the end, which I haven't thought of. Apparently there are a bunch (even some here) who like to be spoon fed and have their bellies rubbed. They say stupid things like there's no subtext and then turn around and say it's too abstract. Well it's better to be talked about than not talked about. Whatever. I think what I'm going for is something like Stephen King's Secret Window. As for "professionalism," perhaps Allie should get some. She might realize that the point of feedback is to improve the story being told, not to force some different story more to her liking. She comes off as smarmy, sophomoric and a bit obtuse.

Joe, I apologize for offering what I thought was positive feedback through a different set of eyes – it’ll never happen again.

Doug, not sure why you're pissed. I was mostly talking about Alle and her onslaught. Thanks for reading.

Well Dan, the beauty of short films is that you can do whatever the hell you want however the hell you want, as long as the budget is kept tiny. It's a lot like writing a short story, as long as you keep it contained to elements you can feasibly acquire. It doesn't have to adhere to formula, expectations or anything else, and it doesn't have to please the lowest common denominator, sell hamburgers, cell phones or SUVs. It doesn't have to give anyone what they want... except perhaps the director. And that's the facts, Jack.

Version 3 posted. Minor additions. New scare.

I didn't get the sense that they were producers so much as jaded writers. I feel good about the script, and the challenges helped me figure out what I really wanted it to be, so it's not all bad.

I'll reread the script. I agree with Joe, about overlong shorts. Nobody wants to sit through that anymore. 5-7 pages is perfect. 15 is seriously the max, and that's only if the director adheres to the 1 page 1 minute rule. I feel as though if you have a 30 page short, just develop it more and make it a feature. Of course there are exceptions...

@Jaden Smith, wouldn't your dad be upset over that language? I thought he raised you right. Don't you have a purple sky to look at? I'm telling.