Screenwriting : I'm so frustrated!!! by Samuel Patrick Jones

Right here Stage 32 Happy Writers they do have coverage service.

Hi Samuel, I offer screenwriting coaching - much different than traditional coverage service. I can help you identify your weaknesses and guide you in strengthening your talent. My coaching is also typically much less than coverage service and I also spend 20 minutes on a skype session with you to personally answer all of your questions.

Getting good feedback is really hard, but we all need competent readers to help us. So, don't stop looking. You'll have to kiss a lot of frogs before you find your prince. More frustration on the way, and $$ spent but worth it in long run. He/she is out there :)

Hi Samuel, Jeff is right, getting good feedback is really difficult. That's why I don't just give feedback, I actually coach - bring out the best in you. Message me if you'd like to learn more about how I can help you.

Hi Can you articulate the problem with your script you are trying to fix (or suspect is a problem)? If you can't articulate the problem it is unlikely anyone can help you fix it. Now I am going to sound horrible now. The reason note givers can't help you fix your script is because they are not writers. So what's your problem? Or what problems have they said your script has?

Samuel- We all gave you valid avenues to get a solution. However you seem to want to live in the problem. I wish you well.

Maybe this article will help: http://www.scriptmag.com/script-doctor-vs-script-consultant-analyst/

Samuel, ive been helping writers at No BullScript for over 7 years and my rates are very competitive and wont break the bank. guarantee theyre the most comprehensive notes youll find for the price. And unlike some others in this thread, ive actually been working in Hollywood, in LA, with professional writers, for 14 years. feel free to message me!

Samuel- We are all trying to help you. Are you there?

What's good, everybody! I got this... Samuel, post your logline, synopsis, and script on your S32 Home Page. I'll look at the first 3 compliments of the house. Far as other options: I just had a coaching call with Mr. Manus - Dude's awesome. For 100$, we talked for an hour. Now I don't know about you, but for me talking with pros AND establishing friendships is priceless. I'm goin' back to D with my next script.

I haven't tried Stage 32 notes yet, the one time I did, the 'executive' didn't deliver on time, but they offered me a refund. So I can't speak for the notes here. But I would encourage you to try the coverage service at Launchpad Tracking Board -- it won't break your bank like Script Pipeline does by ripping writers off.

Thank you all for your input. I'm writing my first screenplay. Craig Griffiths, my problem was on dialogue and exposition. I've done a ton of research on the topics but could't quite figure out how to translate it into my writing. I reached out to Stacey Chehardy yesterday and she has really helped me tremendously. Being able to Skype with her and have her explain in terms I could understand really made a difference. At only $75 and such a quick turnaround, I'm excited to implement what I've learned.

Thank you Sam, it was a pleasure to help you. Best to you on your writing.

Look, im sorry to do this, but i take my job seriously as a professional script consultant. Stacey, I'm sure youre a lovely person with good intentions, but you are a Mortgage Loan Officer in Louisiana who just started screenwriting a few years ago. You have NO business charging anyone for your screenwriting "expertise". You all can yell at me for being mean if you want, but everyone complains there are too many people calling themselves consultants and promoting and charging for notes they have no biz charging for. It is what ruins this biz for those of us who have f*cking earned it and have the actual experience working IN hollywood to help those trying to break in or advance their career. If youve never sold anything, never worked professionally in development or production or representation in Hollywood, never lived in LA, never produced or directed anything, and/or never taught screenwriting professionally, then you DONT get to charge for notes! Its the blind leading the blind - and it's not right. im sorry, but if you want real help, go to people who know what theyre doing because they do it professionally!

btw, thats not to say non-pros cant or shouldn't give notes or that they cant be helpful... they just shouldn't charge for them.. and thats just a general statement for everyone.

If someone tells you what isn't working, you know what you have to learn... so you can focus on learning it. Telling you to just change A to B or something might make the script better - but you will not have learned that lesson so you will continue to make that mistake elsewhere.

Danny. Yes you are being mean.

I have studied screenwriting for over 10 years, have spent over $5,000 on professional schooling and I can help people. If the person doesn't think I helped, I refund the money - do you Danny? William, you are right. Sam paid a lot of money for notes, but that is all they were, notes. He did research, but it just wasn't clicking. He needed someone to explain to him and show him how to make the necessary changes. That is where I differ from consultants and coverage service, I offer coaching. I don't just point out the errors and send the people on their way to try to research on their own how to fix it, like notes do. I coach them and guide them. New screenwriters need help understanding all the rules and nuances of the craft. Once their script is honed and polished with out the rookie mistakes, then pay the expensive money for professional analysis by someone like Danny.

Stacey, im sorry but just because you paid $5000 for schooling, that doesnt mean a damn thing. I guess technically, i paid $120,000 for schooling...it was called film school. But THAT alone doesnt make me qualified in any way to charge for notes. Im sorry but studying screenwriting is not a qualifier to CHARGE others for "coaching". Youve been studying screenwriting for 10 years - what have you sold or optioned? What contests have you won? Who has rep'd you? If there are no answers, stop charging!!! And notes from a qualified consultant SHOULD explain HOW to fix things and not just list what to fix - thats what coverage does. I am sorry, but consulting is for professionals. You have never worked professionally in this industry. Im sorry if this seems like a personal attack, but im tired of people who think they can call themselves a consultant and so magically, they are one.

Gotta agree with Danny here. If someone doesn't have a proven track record, either as a working screenwriter, agent, producer, manager, etc. I don't have much interest their "consulting" services. Show me the scripts you've optioned or sold. Show me your connections in the industry. Show me your successful track record. In otherwords, show me the money. I mean, I've written enough scripts and read enough scripts and worked on enough scripts that I can usually see glaring errors when I read a first draft. That does NOT make me a consultant.

Since Script Consultants are not regulated so there are no qualifications needed to be one.

Samuel you've written your first screenplay. Congratulations. You know there are problems with it. Congratulations again. Now you're ready to start learning how to be a screenwriter. You're part of the Stage 32 community. You have access to a world full of resources and knowledge. So read scripts, listen to podcasts, take some courses, get a script coach, etc. learn as much as you can so you can be the best you can be. Good luck.

If you're determined to pay for notes, I recommend Phillip Hardy. He's won multiple awards and is a thorough thoughtful reviewer. Otherwise I recommend swapping scripts with another screenwriter for free.

Hey Samuel! Grats on the script!! Huge step indeed. We here at Stage 32 actually do coverage and consults - you can even pick the executive you want to review your material. It's pretty cool! And Danny has hit it on the head...notes are one thing, but actionable notes are something else entirely and definitely worth paying for. What you don't want are notes saying "I liked it, but I think this, that, and the other can change." You want notes that tell you what's wrong, why it's wrong, and how to fix it... and there is always (ALWAYS) something wrong with a script, especially if it's your first at-bat, but getting that feedback is important. It's how you grow.

Wow people, this has gotten blown so out of proportion! Never once did I call myself a "consultant", or say I provide coverage or notes! I said I am a "coach" to new screenwriters to help them grasp the concepts of on the nose dialogue, exposition and such so that when they send for professional consultation (not me!) their work won't be full of rookie mistakes and the consultant can focus on story, structure, characters, etc. If I don't feel I can help someone, I don't take their money. If they feel I haven't helped, I refund their money. I was able to help Sam tremendously with his dialogue and exposition, he was very happy and satisfied, as well as many other people I've helped. I don't need to "prove" anything to any of you who don't really understand what it is I offer, it wasn't an offer for you. But for first time screenwriters who need help understanding the confusing rules and nuances and want to get their script the best it can be before shelling a ton of money out for professional coverage, I can help. I really hope this puts an end to the childish "bashing" - I am not a threat to professional consultants, never claimed to be one, only a coach.

Got to agree with Danny and Jody on this one. Do your research into the people you are giving your money to and people you hope to work with. Seriously people! This is important.

You are right, JL, but has anyone else said that they wouldn't take someone's money if they didn't feel they could help or offer to refund the money if they felt they weren't helped? No. Just like Sam who paid money for notes somewhere else and didn't feel it helped at all, there was no refund for him. Who else gives that type of satisfaction guarantee? I'm not out to take people's money and give them worthless advice, my heart is to truly help the new screenwriter, guaranteed no risk.

@Stacey I think the question here is what qualifies you to do so? To charge a fee to "coach" a "new" screenwriter when, at least in looking at your bio, you aren't far from being a new screenwriter yourself? I think it's fair that people might want to know what your credentials are if you're going to charge a fee, regardless of your offers to refund their $ if you can't help them. I don't think anyone was intending to bash you, but I do think it's important, especially on a site like this where there ARE a lot of newer writers, that anyone offering any kind of coaching, consulting, reviewing services be very transparent in listing their credentials, etc. Because some people here have horror stories of how they were screwed over and aren't going to just believe you are qualified to coach other writers because you say you are.

I have been a Stage 32 member for many years. In fact RB respected me, reached out to me and asked me to write a guest blog, which he posted (go to the blog section and search my name). How many of you has he reached out to and asked the same? Back then this was a nice and respectful community to be involved with. I don't believe this current type of attitude is what he built this site for. We were all supposed to be here to connect and support each other, all I've seen from you is self righteous bullying. How sad.

@Jody, you have a valid point, but before I would agree to help anyone (like I did with Sam, but wasn't published here) I have communication with the person to find out what they are looking for and what they need to determine if I can help them. If I don't feel like I can, then I am honest and don't go any further, don't accept any money. I don't need a wall of trophies to be able to help someone. I have learned through many trials and errors of my own to be able to help others steer clear of the same mistakes. I'm not one to take someone's money and leave them where I found them. Again, I reiterate that I don't claim to be a 'coverage' or 'note' person, only a coach to help them understand this confusing craft. I realize my bio doesn't showcase much, but it doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about. I want to help other new writers avoid the same costly mistakes I had to make to get where I am. I wish I would've had someone like me before I spent the fortune I did learning what I did. I'm not here to take anyone for a financial ride, I truly care about seeing people succeed at their passion. I think that is the one thing that may make me stand out from the others, I truly care about the people I try to help, they aren't just another client/paycheck, they are a struggling and aspiring writer who needs someone to care about them and their best interest. I've been studying the craft for over 10 years, got an agent with my first screenplay, not many can say the same. Unfortunately, that screenplay doesn't fit into many wheelhouses, it is that unique of a concept. I'm working on a screenplay now that I've already pitched to a producer and she is eagerly awaiting me to finish. So although I don't tout my accomplishments on my bio, doesn't mean I don't have them. I do understand your concerns and validate them, hope I've cleared them.

RB built this site to give writers support, guidance and info. And I'm glad it's helped you and your writing. But he didn't create this site so that amateur/aspiring screenwriters with a couple years of schooling could charge others to "coach" them on day one basics. in fact he created this site so those needing day one basic tutelage could find it for free in the message boards. And those who need more help, could connect with professionals that could offer it. THIS isn't bullying, this is advising writers on what is and isnt worth paying money for. And fyi, ive written a blog and taught a couple webinars for S32 over the years.

Danny, you really should consider how you sound in your posts, it really isn't becoming of a 'professional' script reader (or 'professional' anything for that matter).

Again Stacey, I don't think anyone is trying to put you down. But honestly, it doesn't sound like you have enough experience under your belt to be offering coaching. That's just my opinion, of course, and is based on the information you've shared. I just don't like to see people paying someone to give them advice when they don't appear to have the experience to back it up. Which is exactly what Danny is saying. He's not being rude. He's being honest. And l will leave it at that, since we've segued far from the original thread.

I agree with Stacey.

Look, im not trying to pile on Stacey. Though i dont think I've said anything bullying, untrue or unfair. She seems sincere and i believe she truly wants to help. But @CJ - youre one of the first people to begrudge consulting and paid services, yet you dont have a problem with this one? is it because it's so little money? Ive said my piece, if people disagree that's fine. Im not gonna keep kicking the horse, im off my soapbox. i just dont think terms like coach, consultant, and professional should be thrown around lightly.

I got feedback from Screencraft for about $100 I think. I liked their feedback and found it helpful. They were positive but honest and helpfully critical.

This debate comes up with depressing regularity ;-( There is clearly no right answer here, as pointed out there is no qualification available to validate that your service is of ANY relative level or degree. That's perhaps why there as so many people offering notes/coverage/coaching etc. So I agree with Danny's/Jody's point that Stacey appears to have limited experience in some respects, BUT Sam found her service useful and of good value and therefore it worked for him. So here's a thought... What would be great is if Stage 32 could have a section for people like Danny, and Stacey, to explain their services and their charges AND (most importantly) allow Stage 32 members to post reviews of their experiences with those individuals or services. RB - anything like that on the development plan?

The amount of money spent on screenwriting school or services is not a measure of storytelling knowledge. In terms of recommendations, I'd also try ScriptGal. She offered a discount to Stage32 members last year. @Anthony: That's a good idea. Creating a product review service for consultants would be valuable.

@Anthony that is a good idea. I don't think there was an intent to put Stacey down. But I do find myself feeling a bit "protective" for lack of a better term, when I see people who really don't seem to have much experience or background in the industry selling their services to newbie writers who may not know differently. I know there are no set qualifications for these services, and we are all (mostly) adults so it's a case of buyer beware. But it does stick in my craw when people who don't seem to have the skills or experience to back it up are charging for their "services". I've occasionally had people here ask me to read their scripts and give feedback. I do it as I can and when I have time. I'd never say I was providing consulting or coaching. And would never charge for it. I don't feel qualified to do so. But that's just me.

I think Trump university has a site that could give screenwriting advice. Basically you just yell "wrong" a lot when someone gives feedback. (He types sarcastically hoping to ease the thread tension with humor)

I had the same problem. Ben Frahm, who teaches at Save the Cat in NY, actually cheated me out of my time (I was told to shut up after 2 minutes because he wanted to go home early, while every other student had received over one hour in personal attention) and, when I complained, he called the cops on me and 2 vans of cops in riot gear came to arrest me for complaining. He said he'd give me my money back when I was thrown out of class, but I had to dispute the charge and tell the credit card company they could verify it with the NYPD. Another "producer" who was paid to give me feedback on a verbal pitch, told me, in front of many other people, that I was too stupid to write a screenplay and that I should write a book. The website, instead of firing the teacher, threw me out of class when I mentioned it. At another consult, at least one "negative" (internalization) is recommended in Cut To The Chase, the screenwriting textbook written and used by UCLA screenwriting instructors. Now, I'm so excited and may be working doing coverage soon. (It's more difficult than I thought.) I'm currently taking extension classes (online) at UCLA for a certificate program. Although the classes are approximately $600 (early registration), it comes with lots of feedback from the instructor and other students (part of your grade is for feedback on other students' work). The first semester I registered late and the only class still open was Film Genre. I didn't think I needed it for MY true stories, but not only learned a lot but got lots of positive feedback on my projects and learned that it has elements from numerous genres, all of which I can expand to increase market. I'm currently taking Feature Screenwriting 1 and Writing Coverage and looking forward to 9 months from now when I have a feature screenwriting certificate from UCLA, which comes with a script consultation. Then I plan on getting a TV writing certificate. (The certificate program is geared to those with a baccalaureate degree.)

I just read the above comments. I paid someone $175 for one hour and spent 45 minutes just explaining the story, which was true. Although the protagonist is real and has many skills and talents, the consultant said no one would believe that person existed and to disregard numerous talents that were the basis of the whole script. No talents, no turning points, no obstacles, no "all is lost" no resolution = no script. The only valuable advice was to get into a workshop and she mentioned UCLA Extension.

ummm.... yea.

This is ridiculous. All new screenwriters start out making the same mistakes. There is absolutely nothing wrong with someone with ten years’ experience charging a new screenwriter $75 to show them what they are doing wrong and suggesting ways to improve. You don’t have to be a professional baseball player to teach someone how to play baseball for crying out loud.

Dan, just bc someone has been writing scripts for 10 years, it doesnt mean they are good at it.

@CJ Walley, I respect everyone's opinion on this post and I would hope that everyone would respect mine as well. I gave my personal opinion which I have every right to do so especially on a topic that I feel is concerning and timely. And I stand by my opinion as a screenwriter. Frankly, I am concerned when we aren't all able to accept opinions that differ from our own. It does happen from time to time and is not something we should try to shelter ourselves from. I do agree with the fundamental point that before you charge money you need to have a product that truly delivers and believe that every writer (and creative) should do their research into the people they work with. I don't agree with the harsh accusations thrown at Stacey. If people choose to use her service, it is of their own volition. I personally feel like Samuel is at a stage where he could have gotten help for free. But he was satisfied in the end. Still, I will never ever tell a writer to just give money to the first person that says they can help. It's so close to my heart and I feel for writers/actors/directors/etc who are made promises that just don't pan out. So my thoughts are bigger than the convo between certain individuals on this thread (sorry for not clarifying that) If you are just beginning, get a mentor. Reach out in the Stage 32 lounge for help. Like Shawn advised, post your script. Join a writing group. Keep reading scripts. Also, beware of people who claim to be agents/managers/producers; check it out. It's all a part of due diligence and I stand firmly behind that.

Holy Toot, Danny. You need to take a chill pill and lay off. Spread a little positive energy, man. Or smoke a doobie or something. $75 to actually consult with ANYONE when you're a lonely ol newbie screenwriter is totally worth it. So many of us have no support network of friends who can give notes that reflect this industry. And re-writing is for sure the hardest part of any type of writing, screenplays included. Anyway, JL, lovely comments. And you know, if we do get together and collectively create a rating system for hired script docs & script therapists that would be cool, and if St32 hosted it, that would benefit them in terms of traffic. I think the real lesson learned here is that Samuel (and others) feel so put off by super-harsh criticism by industry big-wigs. Wish there was a big sign....Newbie writer? Be gentle on yourself. Get feed-back from people like Stacey first....learn to do a re-write.....write 5 or 6 or 10 screenplays....practice pitching....take courses.....THEN go to the industry big-wigs and when you pay big $ for coverage, do it with a consultant that promises to promote your script from within the industry if they end up really liking it (think Stage32 Happy Writers consultants). Keep writing, Samuel!!!!

Danny. Do you know she is not good at it?

Thank you Dan G, CJ and Sarah (and anyone else I may have overlooked, I apologize) for your support. One thing that everyone seems to have forgotten in this mess - Sam said he had done a "ton" of research and couldn't figure out how to translate it into his work. So no amount of "free" resources were able to help him. Like Sarah said, to actually be able to converse with someone who speaks this weird screenplay language and me having the opportunity to explain using examples from his own writing, it clicked for him. Everyone has a different learning style, some can read and understand, others need examples.

Stacey no need to thank me. I just call things the way I see them. I agree everyone has a different learning style. I am just a self-taught hack so according to Danny I guess I am not qualified either. lol!

I tend to agree with Danny. But on the other hand, I think as long as a person is honest about their achievement on their profiles, it's the choice of the help seeker to hire or not to hire that consultant. I wouldn't pay someone, who hasn't got a track record in the industry. But on the hand, I am still not sure I would send my script to a consultant who only has experience with sci-fi or horror, when my script is drama/romance. I would also like to get the notes from male and female consultants. My screenplay is written from a female POV but I wouldn't want men to fall asleep while reading it. :) So if men like it, it would be a huge deal for me. :) My female protag is pretty complicated, not disfunctional like most female charecters are, but still tormented by the past. So there are so many factors to consider, when looking for a consultant. As long as everybody is honest about their qualifications and goals, I think it'll regulate itself.

On the rating thing. I have professional experience with developing rating systems for different kind of professional services. A word of advise - before we can rate professionals, we should establish objective, measurable and transparent quality/rating criteria from the help seeker perspective. Otherwise it'll indeed turn out to be what CJ Walley discribes.

I think one of the issues with this subject, on Stage32 in particular, is that we've had a couple of members in the past offer to mentor/coach people and they have been dangerously deluded individuals with nothing but bad advice to give to people. Advice that, if followed, would probably have set the screenwriter back, not forwards in their development. I'm sure the regs know who I mean. @CJ - agree, plenty of 'gurus' out there with reputations that proceed them, some good, some avg, some awful! But not sure how easy it is, or objective it would be, to rank them, hence my suggestion of reviews on here (accepting that people might try to game the system). Maybe people who offer services, of any nature, for money, should have to list this fact on their profiles at least - then it's nice and clear for everyone. Just a thought.

CJ but this is exactly the point. If nobody dares to call out the names of these people, it'll never gonna change. Would you name this individual in a personal message? I am new in this industry and it would really help to be able to avoid making the same mistakes, people with more experience. ;)

@CJ Walley fair enough. No need to disclose her name. Good that you've reported it though! Thanks

Can this conversation just end and we move on to less controversial topics like politics or abortion?

Agreed CJ. You should always do your due dilligence before you invest in anything.

Just to chime in.... I agree. Someone looking for coaching or consulting needs to do their own due diligence. It's simple self-responsibility. This is your writing we're talking about here. Your money. Your endeavors. I know there are lots of people out there taking advantage of new writers and it infuriates me. I know to whom CJ is referring to, to whom Anthony is referring to, just as a moderator. I've dealt with a few others like those on this site too. Keep in mind with 600,000+ members, we've only had a handful that were problematic over the 4 years I've been on this site. While I understand the desire to have some sort of list of people who provide these services, I considered suggesting it myself, I think that would be a slippery slope. I don't quite see how that would be objective, and it could further crack open the door to soliciting/self-promotion—something we prefer to keep out of the forums. Plus we already have a section in which any person offering such services can promote themselves: "Your Stage." Any services someone is offering can also be listed or explained on their own profile pages, list their own websites, blogs, etc. And anyone can easily do a member search by occupation/location. You can easily do a general search by topic in the Lounge and read what others have said about various consulting services, etc. It's really all at your fingertips. Anyway, if you'd like to send in a suggestion to management you can easily do so by clicking "Contact Us" found at the bottom of the site.

Son of a bitch! Take a few days off to work on my screenplay and the world goes mad! Stacey was very professional, patient, understood my needs and I think she was well worth the money. She knew what she was talking about. I learned more in an hour with her than I have reading on my own for the past several months. I will definitely reach out to her again before sending to a professional.