Screenwriting : I hate the 120 page rule .... by Rayn D Smith

Where are you in your writing career? If you're early, just write it, if you're at the stage of being close to selling or gaining interest then maybe rethink your story. Oh, and even 120 is a bit too long these days.

Also you may be able combine what happens in two scenes into one scene here or there to shorten it. I have adapted 350 page novels into 105 page screenplays so I am sure you will be able to figure out how to reduce a few pages in your screenplay. Like Laura said get it down on paper first then worry about the page count.

Emma Thompson's first draft of Nanny McPhee was over 300 pages. You'll soon see where you can cut. Just finish it, it's like cooking, there is always left overs.

many directors cannot direct 130++ pages and audiences dont want to watch 2 1/2 hours.

Treat scripts as commerce, real estate property, look at restaurants, you cannot have customers eat for 3 hours, you have to turn tables, get customers fed in under 2 hours and for next customer.

Dan M. You are right and some producers think that a 130 plus pages would cost more to film and pass on it without even reading the script.

If the movie is good enough, I'll happily watch for 2 1/2 hours. Or 3. Or even 4!! If the script is good enough, it will hold the reader for as long as required. Anything can be trimmed to the "desired" length to get it in front of someone. Keep your opus in the wings if need be but don't let the number dictated by god knows who restrict your creativity.

maybe is should be a tv miniseries instead.

Unless you are an established screenwriter, you follow the rules. Finish the draft then based the page count you have two options:

1) Revise or cut out scenes to shorten the draft to meet the 120 page count.

2) Lengthen it until you have enough material and divide it into two parts. (This may require some revision to make both parts work as individual movies.)

Otherwise you'll have a really tough sell on your hands. And do you really want to make things harder on yourself when this business is already hard enough?

I just saw a video on an experienced writer whose final draft scripts are 75 pages. He believes (from experience) that is all that gets made, 75 pages. The rest are scenes you or someone else will cut out. He chooses 75 pages of "essential" content and that is it. It seems extreme but illustrates what actually gets used on the other end. ANTHONY, WHAT DO YOU THINK?

Even 120p is considered lengthy these days. I've professionally read over 9000 scripts cover-to-cover and I firmly believe there isn't a story that CANNOT be told in 120p or less. One example I cite is a biopic I read of MARY QUEEN OF SCOTS. It was epic and only 107p. A crucial trait for screenwriters is efficiency and economy. If you can't tell a story within certain parameters (e.g. 120p) then keep honing your skills.

120+ minute movies get made all the time... but seldom from specs by newcomers. A writer (in literature and in screenwriting) should easily be able to do triage on every scene and bit of action and dialogue:

1: essential;

2: nice to include; and

3: easily discarded.

Michael. That experienced writer is full of it. Most producers wouldn't even consider a 75 page spec screenplay unless maybe it was a comedy but even then it would probably be considered to short.

Personally speaking I'd finish writing the script, leave it a couple of weeks and rewrite as necessary.

I totally agree with Micheal. I would first finish writing it to the best of my ability and imagination irrespective of the number of pages, as long I truly believe that is the best way to achieve the narrative I had set out to achieve. And a week or so later sit down to edit it as objectively as I possibly can.

Not every line we write stays on till the final draft, even though at the time of writing it we may genuinely believe that it is probably the best line of the film!

The same happens to scenes and characters!

Most times, if you are good, it will end up below 120 pages if the first draft was around 130-135 pages.

One question to ask is what's the genre. Is it a 130 epic historical piece or a 130 rom com? One is more likely to be viable as a 2+ hour movie than the other. That said, a longer script will be more intimidating to readers who face a scarcity of time, so you might factor that into your decision-making. The vast majority of scripts don't need to be over 120 pages, but one size does not fit all.

As a fan of long, slow movies, I could care less about the 120 page rule. Watching Mary Shelley's Frankenstein, I wondered how it was they took a short book, made exactly 2 hours of a movie, and still made it feel like bad 90s action. Too many quick cuts, too much camera movement. I've always loved/hated Kenneth Branagh, but this movie really annoyed me because of how fast it moved.

Then he goes and makes a four-hour version of Hamlet, and changes the rules again.

Watch Bela Tarr movies. Watch Andrei Tarkovsky, or Kurosawa, or von Trier. I watched von Trier's The Kingdom in a single sitting in a movie theater - and was really pissed when they stopped in the middle for ten minutes. I realize this makes me a little odd, but two hours is not the length of a movie - the story is the story. You should cut it down to essentials, absolutely, and there are certainly stories that should be miniseries (I prefer the old Tinker Tailor, to the new, even though Gary Oldman is fantastic in the new version).

I realize this is all about getting into the business, but sometimes, the business finds talent, too.

You must certainly finish the script the way you envision, but It sounds like you may be overwriting. You can save so many pages by the style of writing too. It matters. Sure, people may say they don't mind reading a long script if they enjoy the story, but this is a business and you have many others to please besides yourself. You can't be precious and fall in love with your scenes. I'm curious as if you worked from a detailed story treatment or not. That would have helped cut down on the page count as you're following a roadmap. Yes, finish the draft as you planned, but go back and eye where you can cut a good twenty pages (twenty or more minutes) from your epic.

You have to be brutal with your script as others will be if you're trying to work in the business. Sure, after you "make it" you can do what you please like Quentin Tarantio. Until then, 120 + will have an immediate bias against it. And you should also consider the budget - the longer the script the more money it will cost for production and the shooting days. And if a producer goes to investors or distributors - they have demands and when they see a long script it may harm the chances. Your script needs to be lean and tight. Not so lean as under 90 pages, but the sweet spot is 105 - 110. Again, I always hear writers say, "My story can't be told in a shorter time." Usually, it can and should.

An old thread but a good topic. I actually try to limit my screenplays to no more than 110 pages. I've written about 36 scripts and I've exceeded the 120 page limit on several occasions. However, those are older scripts and I've revisited some of them to see where I could trim out unnecessary bits. My writing style is leaner than it was four years and ago and even two years ago. My rule of thumb is if a scene adds no essential value to conveying the story, I get rid of it. I've chopped some good scenes for that very reason. I read scripts all the time that offer lots of non value-added narrative and dialogue. Being economical is not just about being commercial. It's about being screenwriter that crafts a script that is easy to read and enjoy. And, not the work of a writer who fails to understand quality generally trumps quantity.