Mildred Hayes (Frances McDormand) in Three Billboards because 1) the film is fresh in my mind, 2) the character kicks butt and 3) I nearly spit my drink out multiple times when reading the script, because of that character
Adding Witherspoon's Tracy Flick in "Election." Ambition personified, vulnerable, nasty, mesmerizing. A nod to her work in "Wild" as well - a sheer force of nature.
Pam Grier gave a very underrated performance in Jackie Brown, a strong and entertaining female character. I've always felt this film was very underrated in terms of Quentin Tarantino's body of work - and in the scope of general cinema. Thought Grier should have nabbed an Oscar Nomination for her performance, but was happy that Robert Forster did. Was fortunate enough to speak with Forster over a brunch in Hollywood about 14 years ago. Relayed to him just how much I enjoyed his performance.
He had some eggs and he definitely likes his coffee. The waiter kept saying, "Robert, I will come over to give you a refill," and he was like, "When you're in the neighborhood." One of my producers gave Robert a call for the feature I directed with Ernest Borgnine in L.A., but unfortunately he was making The Descendants with George Clooney in Hawaii at that time. More money, Oscar film and Hawaii. Who can blame the guy? Great guy, though.
He's absolutely not a cheapskate. The check was picked up by another producer I was with. Also present was Martin Sheen's brother Joe Estevez and Duane Whitaker - the lovable pawn shop owner Maynard from Pulp Fiction - and my buddy Daniel Roebuck of LOST and Matlock.
"Ray Eddy" and "Lila Littlejohn" in Frozen River. Both are ordinary people dealing with the harshness of their lives. Two mothers from different cultures working together; the men in their lives having constantly failed them. They are self-reliant. When I saw this film, it was like a breath of fresh air. Loved it.
"Marge Gunderson" in FARGO. Simple, smart, even goofy, plus all that Minnesota nice and colloquial charm. She's an ordinary person, purposeful, her own agency. Self-reliant. I have a special place in my heart for FARGO. One of my all-time favorites.
I'm probably the only person here who hated Basic Instinct. Hated Jade too. I'm not a fan of the "sexy male-fantasy" female killer or serial killer or bad whatever. Basic Instinct made me throw up a little, not because of the content but because of utter disappointment -- thrillers being my favorite genre. But... Charlize Theron as serial killer Aileen Wuornos in Monster... now that was incredible, IMHO. Written and directed by Patty Jenkins. Great script to read. ;)
"Natalie Hanson" from Wind River; "Marion McPherson" from Lady Bird; "Vanessa Ives" from Penny Dreadful; "Sansa Stark" from Game of Thrones; "Latrice Butler" from Seven Seconds; "Furiosa" from Mad Max: Fury Road; "Elizabeth I" from Reign; "Lucy" from I Love Lucy; "Beatrix Kiddo" from Kill Bill (vols. 1 & 2); "Yu Shu Lien" from Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon; "Flying Snow" from Hero; "Constance Langdon" from American Horror Story: Murder House; and of course... "Ripley" from Alien/Aliens. ; )
Didn't see anyone mention it, but I think it goes without saying that the Wonder Woman movie last summer was more than a strong female character. And, people - including women - responded in kind. I think many young females were waiting for a character such as that in the superhero world. I think the credit not only goes to the four writers, but to director Patty Jenkins and even the actress Gal Gadot for the strong portrayal on screen.
Barbara Stanwyck Double Indemnity. Sharon Stone Basic Instinct. Minds of their own and drove the plot, not afraid to be themselves, and not be compliant to the norms expected of them.
Giulietta Masina as "Maria" in "The Nights of Cabiria". Or Giulietta Masina in anything, for that matter. She's a naive woman who toughens up because she's put through hell, yet still emerges with a very positive, almost saintly, outlook on life.
Xena was an awesome series(alongside Hercules:Legendary Journeys)... I read online Xena got killed in Japan, during the show's last season... It would be cool to see a Xena movie(feature) someday!:)
Duh - "I've always considered women to be people." Now there's a profound observation for sure. I noticed his response was to a comment presented by another male. I'd love to hear what the women writers among us have to say.
As a woman I find his answer a little hypocritical. That's just a personal opinion, but it's what I think. He does have some strong female characters, but there are also female characters that are constantly talked down to, belittled, mansplained to, that are just there to be used as sex objects and so on. Some of that's just reality, as it happens in real life. The problem I have is that it doesn't have to be that way. While these are things that, as writers, we should explore, when something like rape and violence becomes your only leg to stand on, then you're probably not telling a very good story and are coasting along on shock value. Again, it's a personal opinion.
I'm kind of hard on Martin. Mostly because I find the show and its rabid fan base a little annoying. That doesn't mean he's not good at what he does. It's just simply not for me. I'm sorry, was that kind of a mini-rant? Oh well. It was a good questions. Good questions deserve honest answers.
I think there is a big focus on 'strong' female characters at the moment. I like to think that it's the depth that a writer (of any gender) brings to a female character that makes them live and breathe - while a lot of women (and other traditionally subjugated characters) are difficult to portray because of the cultural indoctrination of subservience, it's the nuances of that character's roles and perspective that fleshes them out into something that offers the viewer more. It's the psychological viewpoint behind how the character finds themselves in that position. Not easy to pull off always - as a recent review of Ocean's 8 pointed out, which said that a movie that was prime for this kind of portrayal just ended up representing each woman as their role. Having not seen the movie yet, it's difficult to concur or disagree, but I think it's a generic issue that I've found a lot of in my recent research in period dramas.
Agree with Martina. He is sarcastically replying to an absolutely stupid question. Plus "strong," although well intended, is rather patronizing — so if this one is "strong" then all other female characters (or women, in general) are what, weak? Notice the OP of this thread referred to these characters as "well written" and "memorable/interesting," not "strong." Me, I hate "strong" female characters. I cringe every time I hear or see that catchphrase or term used. But "well written," those characters are captivating because it's about character and not-so-much about gender or putting women and/or men into categories. ;)
Rant on Shara Maude. I've not watched a frame of GOT primarily due to the fantasy realm of which I have no interest. As a non-viewer, it became distaste, regardless the rationalizations, when the controversy surrounding sexual violence broke a few years ago. Linda Seger speaks of avoiding Toxic Themes in writing. That's the crux.
Many have mentioned Ellen Ripley. She has 15-20 pages of dialogue, therefore her appeal has less to do with well written dialogue (a lot is technical spacecraft stuff) and more to do with Weaver's performance. She's the NOSTROMO Third Officer and rises to the challenge after Captain and First are taken out. She does so admirably.
It's Ripley's post-feminist portrayal that hits the mark. I'd wager a man in Ripley's role would have flattened the film. Scott cut a scene outside the infirmary after Kane's "insemination" in which Ripley and Lambert (Veronica Cartwright) have a catfight. Scott felt it did a disservice to the characters.
"Strong" has over 150 synonyms from: intelligent and able, tenacious, resilient, bold, effective, compelling. http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/strong?s=t That doesn't include dozens of secondary, applicable synonyms.
As a writer of mostly women characters, I would be flattered to have one of them described as strong.
Fer chrissakes, the Bechdel test is so basic yet the majority of films fail the simplicity of it: "...whether a work of fiction features at least two women who talk to each other about something other than a man. The requirement that the two women must be named is sometimes added."
As long as no one uses the term "Mary Sue," I have no issue with calling a woman strong. For some reason the label of Mary Sue just pisses me off to know end. It's like you can't have an intelligent, interesting woman character without giving her a cute little label that makes he sound like a child.
Ripley's a fabulous character. Not as interesting as some other characters, but definitely an intelligent fighter. I love her. As for GoT, He created the source content. While it might not follow along exactly with the books, it's still his world. I'm opinionated, haha.
The context for "strong" is how it is used to label a female protagonist/character in writing or on screen -- seems some exec term that caught on, now a common phrase in the industry and everywhere. And subject matter, story content or portrayal, disparaging or not, can be something else entirely. I don't care for some of the story and character choices in GoT either, but the characters are extremely well written, created and portrayed -- just my humble opinion. As far as "Mary Sue," yeah, I hate that one too! Oh, and "bad ass" or "kick-ass" whatever. Gawd, labels... ;)
To me it just sounds belittling. Then again, labels just seem to be part of the norm. They probably shouldn't be. But they are. Are they truly necessary, or have we just convinced ourselves that they're necessary? I guess it depends.
Getting back to the OP's thread topic... "Catherine Cawood" in BBC's TV series Happy Valley — an incredible character and affecting performance from Sarah Lancashire. The series is created, written, and directed by Sarah Wainwright. If interested, you can find it on Netflix. ;)
"Mia" in BBC's Hit & Miss. Chloë Sevigny plays a transgender assassin who discovers she has a child and finds new maternal instincts. Sounds too contrived, I know, but it's incredibly moving. It's from the creator of Shameless. My only disappointment is that they only did one season. ;)
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Hands down "Ripley" from Aliens. And I don't really need to say why, do I? She's that incredible of a character. Lol! ;)
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Yassss Ripley!!!
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Scarlet O’hara...And Margot/Bette Davis in “All about Eve” :)
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Mildred Hayes (Frances McDormand) in Three Billboards because 1) the film is fresh in my mind, 2) the character kicks butt and 3) I nearly spit my drink out multiple times when reading the script, because of that character
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Elizabeth Bennett - Pride & Prejudice
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Adam Harper yes, that reminds me, I have to read that script!
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Weaver's Ripley in "Alien." Tough, smart, vulnerable.
Gunn's Skyler on "Breaking Bad." Complex, larcenous, intelligent.
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Adding Witherspoon's Tracy Flick in "Election." Ambition personified, vulnerable, nasty, mesmerizing. A nod to her work in "Wild" as well - a sheer force of nature.
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Anna Rios - “Senorita Justice”. She was the first Marysue character in straight to video history. Classic.
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Faye Dunaway in either Chinatown or The Thomas Crown Affair.
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Pam Grier gave a very underrated performance in Jackie Brown, a strong and entertaining female character. I've always felt this film was very underrated in terms of Quentin Tarantino's body of work - and in the scope of general cinema. Thought Grier should have nabbed an Oscar Nomination for her performance, but was happy that Robert Forster did. Was fortunate enough to speak with Forster over a brunch in Hollywood about 14 years ago. Relayed to him just how much I enjoyed his performance.
What did Forster eat? Betcha it was huevos rancheros. He looks like a huevos rancheros kind of guy. And black coffee. :)
He had some eggs and he definitely likes his coffee. The waiter kept saying, "Robert, I will come over to give you a refill," and he was like, "When you're in the neighborhood." One of my producers gave Robert a call for the feature I directed with Ernest Borgnine in L.A., but unfortunately he was making The Descendants with George Clooney in Hawaii at that time. More money, Oscar film and Hawaii. Who can blame the guy? Great guy, though.
Who picked up the check. Hope he's not a cheapskate.
He's absolutely not a cheapskate. The check was picked up by another producer I was with. Also present was Martin Sheen's brother Joe Estevez and Duane Whitaker - the lovable pawn shop owner Maynard from Pulp Fiction - and my buddy Daniel Roebuck of LOST and Matlock.
What did they have?
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Geez, guys, this is a thread about well-written, memorable/interesting female characters... C'mon, seriously? lol! ;)
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"Ree Dolly" in Winter's Bone. She's an ordinary person dealing with the harshness of her life. Self-reliant.
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"Ray Eddy" and "Lila Littlejohn" in Frozen River. Both are ordinary people dealing with the harshness of their lives. Two mothers from different cultures working together; the men in their lives having constantly failed them. They are self-reliant. When I saw this film, it was like a breath of fresh air. Loved it.
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"Marge Gunderson" in FARGO. Simple, smart, even goofy, plus all that Minnesota nice and colloquial charm. She's an ordinary person, purposeful, her own agency. Self-reliant. I have a special place in my heart for FARGO. One of my all-time favorites.
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LOL Inquiring minds want to know.
Streep in "Sophie's Choice." Fragility, self-loathing, debilitating guilt.
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Joe Eszerhas was the Hollywood go to screenwriter for female lead characters: Flashdance, Basic Instinct, Jagged Edge, Betrayed, Showgirls, Jade.
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"Eleven" in Stranger Things. :)
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"Juno" in Juno.
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I'm probably the only person here who hated Basic Instinct. Hated Jade too. I'm not a fan of the "sexy male-fantasy" female killer or serial killer or bad whatever. Basic Instinct made me throw up a little, not because of the content but because of utter disappointment -- thrillers being my favorite genre. But... Charlize Theron as serial killer Aileen Wuornos in Monster... now that was incredible, IMHO. Written and directed by Patty Jenkins. Great script to read. ;)
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"Natalie Hanson" from Wind River; "Marion McPherson" from Lady Bird; "Vanessa Ives" from Penny Dreadful; "Sansa Stark" from Game of Thrones; "Latrice Butler" from Seven Seconds; "Furiosa" from Mad Max: Fury Road; "Elizabeth I" from Reign; "Lucy" from I Love Lucy; "Beatrix Kiddo" from Kill Bill (vols. 1 & 2); "Yu Shu Lien" from Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon; "Flying Snow" from Hero; "Constance Langdon" from American Horror Story: Murder House; and of course... "Ripley" from Alien/Aliens. ; )
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Oh, and "Hushpuppy" from Beasts of the Southern Wild. : )
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Jane Fonda she is Inspiring me DAILY! When I first saw #GraceAndFrankie #netflix I was Crying and Laughing the BEST combination!! I still am!
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Clarisse from the Silence of the Lambs
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Ashleigh Angel Nastassia Klein If you haven't, try the excellent "Klute" with Fonda. Her first Oscar. And her nominated in "On Golden Pond."
Mary Tyler Moore in "Ordinary People," a nominated performance.
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Good one Martina Cook Loved Hopkins' hiss, "Claaareese."
Someone cheated by Googling "Best Female Characters." ;)
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Norma Desmondm Baby Jane, Clarice Starling
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Didn't see anyone mention it, but I think it goes without saying that the Wonder Woman movie last summer was more than a strong female character. And, people - including women - responded in kind. I think many young females were waiting for a character such as that in the superhero world. I think the credit not only goes to the four writers, but to director Patty Jenkins and even the actress Gal Gadot for the strong portrayal on screen.
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And, for the record, they were attempting to develop that character for feature films for more than a decade. Looks like the wait paid off. ;)
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Barbara Stanwyck Double Indemnity. Sharon Stone Basic Instinct. Minds of their own and drove the plot, not afraid to be themselves, and not be compliant to the norms expected of them.
Giulietta Masina as "Maria" in "The Nights of Cabiria". Or Giulietta Masina in anything, for that matter. She's a naive woman who toughens up because she's put through hell, yet still emerges with a very positive, almost saintly, outlook on life.
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Hm... Princess Leia, Galadriel, Eowyn, Wonder Woman, definitely, Xena (lol, still love her).
Xena was an awesome series(alongside Hercules:Legendary Journeys)... I read online Xena got killed in Japan, during the show's last season... It would be cool to see a Xena movie(feature) someday!:)
A recent re-boot crashed and burned just last year. The writers and the studio couldn't agree on a vision for the show.
Duh - "I've always considered women to be people." Now there's a profound observation for sure. I noticed his response was to a comment presented by another male. I'd love to hear what the women writers among us have to say.
As a woman I find his answer a little hypocritical. That's just a personal opinion, but it's what I think. He does have some strong female characters, but there are also female characters that are constantly talked down to, belittled, mansplained to, that are just there to be used as sex objects and so on. Some of that's just reality, as it happens in real life. The problem I have is that it doesn't have to be that way. While these are things that, as writers, we should explore, when something like rape and violence becomes your only leg to stand on, then you're probably not telling a very good story and are coasting along on shock value. Again, it's a personal opinion.
I'm kind of hard on Martin. Mostly because I find the show and its rabid fan base a little annoying. That doesn't mean he's not good at what he does. It's just simply not for me. I'm sorry, was that kind of a mini-rant? Oh well. It was a good questions. Good questions deserve honest answers.
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I think there is a big focus on 'strong' female characters at the moment. I like to think that it's the depth that a writer (of any gender) brings to a female character that makes them live and breathe - while a lot of women (and other traditionally subjugated characters) are difficult to portray because of the cultural indoctrination of subservience, it's the nuances of that character's roles and perspective that fleshes them out into something that offers the viewer more. It's the psychological viewpoint behind how the character finds themselves in that position. Not easy to pull off always - as a recent review of Ocean's 8 pointed out, which said that a movie that was prime for this kind of portrayal just ended up representing each woman as their role. Having not seen the movie yet, it's difficult to concur or disagree, but I think it's a generic issue that I've found a lot of in my recent research in period dramas.
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I don’t watch GOT but I took his answer as a sarcastic reply to a not-so-smart question :)
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Agree with Martina. He is sarcastically replying to an absolutely stupid question. Plus "strong," although well intended, is rather patronizing — so if this one is "strong" then all other female characters (or women, in general) are what, weak? Notice the OP of this thread referred to these characters as "well written" and "memorable/interesting," not "strong." Me, I hate "strong" female characters. I cringe every time I hear or see that catchphrase or term used. But "well written," those characters are captivating because it's about character and not-so-much about gender or putting women and/or men into categories. ;)
Rant on Shara Maude. I've not watched a frame of GOT primarily due to the fantasy realm of which I have no interest. As a non-viewer, it became distaste, regardless the rationalizations, when the controversy surrounding sexual violence broke a few years ago. Linda Seger speaks of avoiding Toxic Themes in writing. That's the crux.
Many have mentioned Ellen Ripley. She has 15-20 pages of dialogue, therefore her appeal has less to do with well written dialogue (a lot is technical spacecraft stuff) and more to do with Weaver's performance. She's the NOSTROMO Third Officer and rises to the challenge after Captain and First are taken out. She does so admirably.
It's Ripley's post-feminist portrayal that hits the mark. I'd wager a man in Ripley's role would have flattened the film. Scott cut a scene outside the infirmary after Kane's "insemination" in which Ripley and Lambert (Veronica Cartwright) have a catfight. Scott felt it did a disservice to the characters.
"Strong" has over 150 synonyms from: intelligent and able, tenacious, resilient, bold, effective, compelling. http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/strong?s=t That doesn't include dozens of secondary, applicable synonyms.
As a writer of mostly women characters, I would be flattered to have one of them described as strong.
Fer chrissakes, the Bechdel test is so basic yet the majority of films fail the simplicity of it: "...whether a work of fiction features at least two women who talk to each other about something other than a man. The requirement that the two women must be named is sometimes added."
Tony S. Ripley was originally written For men. Male actor hero role.
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Good casting choice by Scott.
George RR Martin isn't involved in the HBO series, GOT, based on his novels.
He's written episodes.
As long as no one uses the term "Mary Sue," I have no issue with calling a woman strong. For some reason the label of Mary Sue just pisses me off to know end. It's like you can't have an intelligent, interesting woman character without giving her a cute little label that makes he sound like a child.
Ripley's a fabulous character. Not as interesting as some other characters, but definitely an intelligent fighter. I love her. As for GoT, He created the source content. While it might not follow along exactly with the books, it's still his world. I'm opinionated, haha.
The context for "strong" is how it is used to label a female protagonist/character in writing or on screen -- seems some exec term that caught on, now a common phrase in the industry and everywhere. And subject matter, story content or portrayal, disparaging or not, can be something else entirely. I don't care for some of the story and character choices in GoT either, but the characters are extremely well written, created and portrayed -- just my humble opinion. As far as "Mary Sue," yeah, I hate that one too! Oh, and "bad ass" or "kick-ass" whatever. Gawd, labels... ;)
To me it just sounds belittling. Then again, labels just seem to be part of the norm. They probably shouldn't be. But they are. Are they truly necessary, or have we just convinced ourselves that they're necessary? I guess it depends.
Should anyone be interested, here's an older article (a semi-rant) about the catch-all "Strong Female Character": https://www.newstatesman.com/culture/2013/08/i-hate-strong-female-charac.... ;)
It's a w-o-r-d (a flattering one at that). Not an end-all-be-all. Conversely, the scholarly: https://www.nytimes.com/watching/lists/strong-female-lead-drama (Interestingly, Jefnnifer lawrence in "Winter's Bone" is the first mentioned.)
Take this test: describe your fave with any word but the 'S' word. $10 says it's a synonym.
Not talking about the word itself. Again, it's the phrase/term/label and how it is used in this specific context.
:)
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Getting back to the OP's thread topic... "Catherine Cawood" in BBC's TV series Happy Valley — an incredible character and affecting performance from Sarah Lancashire. The series is created, written, and directed by Sarah Wainwright. If interested, you can find it on Netflix. ;)
Threads are organic, no? It's all on-topic.
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"Mia" in BBC's Hit & Miss. Chloë Sevigny plays a transgender assassin who discovers she has a child and finds new maternal instincts. Sounds too contrived, I know, but it's incredibly moving. It's from the creator of Shameless. My only disappointment is that they only did one season. ;)
:)
Strong character indeed.
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All the women in Black Panther. Intelligent, Loyal, Interesting.
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Beth, I love Happy Valley - characters are all complex, dynamic and interesting relationships - I've become a big fan of Sarah Lancashire recently!
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If we're going British, Demelza Poldark. Certainly an interesting character.
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All great, strong female characters. Emily Blunt in "Sicario." Muy fuerte!