Screenwriting : Thick skin is "in" by Chaun Lee

I think of notes in this way, “what in my script produced that reaction”. I then decide to leave it in or take it out.

Remember that you have control over the readers not the other way around.

Honest critique is a rare commodity today. It sounds as though you were fortunate. Best wishes for your rewrite.

Awesome for you for taking it the right way. After it was conveyed to you, did you see/understand that it was right pretty quickly? Rightly or wrongly, rationally or irrationally, some people come in these forums every so often and badrap the people who critiqued their works.

To answer your question....when I first moved to L.A., I had three scripts and thought I was da goods. My first script consultant quickly made me realize I was da bads. But she critiqued my scripts very objectively, and she was right. The money I spent was not a small amount, but the knowledge she shared was priceless to me. In the approximately ten hours I spent with her, I probably got two or three UCLA-level classes (where she taught) of advanced screenwriting education.

It was a very, very, very long walk back to my car, though. That half-block must have taken me an hour. Heh-heh.

I've said it time and time again here, but for writers who aren't quite advanced-level dramatists (and maybe for them, too)....nothing beats the honest and objective critique and guidance from a reputable script consultant.

Best fortunes to you in your creative endeavors, Chantel!

Thanks everyone for your wonderful comments.

Kay, I hope to be a pro writer one day—I don’t give up easy.

Nick, I wanted it all, the good, bad and the ugly...I guess this little part of me felt the script was all “good”!

Doug, I’m very fortunate. I’m a firm believer in, “when the student is ready...” philosophy. I work at my passion every single day and I want the world to love my characters as much as I do. So, this is a necessary step.

Nick—I got the sense in the critiques that great care was taken in reading my work. So, I’m walking into the rewrites with an overwhelming sense of gratitude.

Craig—I got a lot of great feedback on my comedic material in the script, yay! I’ll definitely keep those parts and hopefully add more set pieces.

And Bill, I’ve now had a similar experience as your early one as a new screenwriter. This past weekend I had an emotional moment after this 12-hour class, because something clicked, and I thought “I can do this.” I just need to get the audience to feel as invested in my hero as I am already (along with a handful of other things, lol). I’ll put in the work though!

:)

Chantel,

Best fortunes in your creative endeavors, Chantel!

Wow, what a story Kay! I’m gaining a better understanding of story each day I dedicate to learning. I think it’s all about the work you put in, and, as you said, listening to the advice/feedback from qualified critics.

Bill, I agree, I’ve been through a few “false destinies” myself. Best fortunes to you as well in your creative endeavors!

Similar to Bill's post... in order to achieve Grandeur, you must first start with some delusions of grandeur... the ones that build belief. Electric blankets, not wet ones.

That's a tough question to answer, Chantel. As an example, I've had two respected script notes people (from another forum), both with vast amounts of studio coverage experience, review a script of mine.

One loved it and cited specific passages in the script.

The other hated it because of the exact same passages as the person who loved it.

My advice is to learn and recognize what makes a great script (read Pixar and Disney scripts, the ones you like), and then use that model for your own scripts. You can still get feedback but learn to trust yourself in making the final decision.

I believe you have the right mindset about the comments you received. You'll look back and be happy they were honest about their criticism. You'll be a better writer not only because they gave meaningful feedback, but because you also in turn embraced it and evaluated your current level and took steps to correct the things that produced that reaction from them.

This is something I've myself been scared about honestly. I intend to get some script services when I'm finished editing my first draft, and I wonder if my script which I believe is worth being on the big screen will be trashed when read you know. But, I've made up my mind that I will accept any criticism given by those who are veterans in the industry, and perfect my craft if potholes in my writing were to be pinpointed.

You have the right attitude. Keep at it. Use their feedback as guidelines and perfect that script, and those to come. Hope everything works out in your favour Chaun Lee

Brian—love that! Obviously had some delusions of grandeur, but thank goodness I’ve failed enough to know to stay humble and focused. And, I thought failure just sucked in every way over the years....but, success means little without it. :)

And Imo Chadband—it takes courage to admit you have weaknesses, especially on a public platform. That means you’re invested in your work and humble, two very admirable qualities. I hope to hear more about your work in the future! I plan to keep everyone updated about mine as well. I will also say this regarding your dreams, it’s something that’s helped me tremendously to shift focus when I receive constructive criticism, “your energy is better placed dreaming of your desired outcome, than it is indulging in worry, anger or self-pity.” Best wishes for your writing endeavors!

I think that happens a lot for an amateur's first script or first baby. And happens plenty of times with other scripts after that. At least, it sounds like the reader genuinely read it and wanted to help with the feedback. After getting tons and tons of feedback over the years on like 20 different script I always pretty much look for and seek out the negative comments regarding what didn't resonate or work for the reader compared to my intention and expectations. You'll run into people that obviously didn't read it carefully or seem intentional hurtful but getting constant feedback is a must IMO. Also, you don't have to only go to paid readers for feedback(idk if that's what you did) But you can trade feedback with people here, on Reddit and I always use Zoetrope, Coverflyx, talentville to get feedback from other amateurs.

This still happens to me. The only way I know how to receive such critically important information, is to read it then not look at it for a week. Once I get all of the defensive thoughts worked out of my head, then I can absorb the advise.

Actually following through and incorporating the advice?

That's another trick all together..

Rob--that's a great idea. The feedback I received was a mix of both, paid and unpaid. I had a veteran on this site give me detailed notes. Both people however, came up with the same issues. Thank you for the suggestions!

Mike, I took about a week away from my script as well and just analyzed the notes I was given, then I attacked the books to find out how to understand "story structure" better. When I looked at the script again, I felt more confident and could actually see a lot of what they pointed out as areas needing improvement. We'll see how it goes.

Great attitude, Chantel. It's vital to continut to improve. More power to you.

I feel your pain. Experiences like this initially sting; even make you second guess yourself. The thing to remember is that everyone else has felt the same pain. By looking at the experience as a 'lesson learned' and realizing that future work efforts will be that much stronger, the comments provide the fuel for you to succeed.

Phil- thank you! You're right.

Been there. When I get negative notes, I go for a second or third opinion, that includes other writers here, if two point out the same issues, then I know I need to work on that, or just get rid of that entire scene all together. Write everyday or every other day and trust me, you will get there and it will train you to catch what works or doesn't work in your scripts. Don't give up. Hope never quits.

Jorge—thank you! So very true. I do write everyday and only watch television or movies to study structure and keep up with what’s new. But, writing for me isn’t just a hobby or passion, I feel it’s part of my purpose. It took me years of resistance to finally see it though. So, no quitting for me!

Attitude like yours, I expect to be watching something you wrote in the near future. Thank you for sharing and showing we learn from everything not just successes.

Tim—thank you...fingers crossed! Yes, I believe all of life’s experiences are meant to help us grow, we just have to condition ourselves to recognize the opportunities for growth within them. All the best to you!

Yes Dan, it’d be unwise of me not to...their feedback and assistance helped me tremendously. I had thin skin myself at one time and any negative feedback paralyzed me creatively....that left a lot of meaningful stories unfinished, something I’m no longer willing to do. :)

Personally, I love Chantel's attitude of "if life serves us lemons, make lemonade" can-do attitude. You go girl...

Thank you Brian! We’re here only briefly. I personally don’t want to spend my time with regrets, bitterness or self-pity. That energy’s better placed in other more useful areas, lol, like figuring out how to improve!

I think I heard Steve Harvey say, "The reason we forgive isn't for them; it's for us." My professor in Beverly Hills 90210 used to preach to us students, "Continue to refine"

Absolutely. :)

I learned that applying feedback is an art in itself. Good luck, and I'm sure I'll run into you in Atlanta somewhere down the line. Where are you taking classes? Bridge17? That's the only place I know that focuses on screenwriters.

Thank you Jean-Pierre. I actually flew to Los Angeles and took a class with Pilar Alessandra—On The Page TV...she’s pretty awesome. I don’t know any fellow screenwriters here yet, but it’d be awesome to meet some! Bridge17 you say?

I recently received a coverage regarding one of my script. Same thing, reality suckered punch me. But those comments elevated my approach to the material when i got back to it and helped me see what needed to change,. It's just about widening your horizons.

Here's a weird phenomenon I've experienced: go back and look at some paid script notes or feedback a year or more after having received it and you'll find they're much more incisive and helpful than you remember them being. I think it's because you're emotionally divorced from that earlier script by now or you know more about screenwriting by now yourself and can better interpret the feedback.

Yes, I waited a few weeks to look at the script notes and then started my rewrites with fresh eyes and new outlook. It worked out—I ended up being a semifinalist in the Save the Cat Screenplay Challenge. I’ve since done my final rewrites and entered a few more contests. I think each day I’m learning more and more—I write everyday regardless of what I have going on too. I’ve had moments when I’m discouraged but I fight through it and keep writing. I know as long as I do, I’ll continue to see progress. Thank you all for sharing your thoughts and experiences!

congrats on your placement

Thanks Art and Jeff! Art, I appreciate the information; several people have encouraged me to look into getting a scene produced as well. I’m going to seriously pursue doing it. ‘Loved the Hush Money trailer—put it on my Amazon watch list for the weekend! :)

My brother does this to me every week. I hand him the work and he hands me my arse. A humbling experience!

Lol Karen—well the most important thing is to keep writing despite any negative feedback. I tell myself this constantly :)

Chantel, I take feedback very seriously which is why I'm careful about who reviews/comments on my material. The reader must be of the same genre of my screenplays; and since they're in a position of 'much sought after' knowledge. I'm open and receptive to their comments. A producer of like genre but not, invaded my genre savory and I had to shake off the affects. Positive feedback is meant to assist us and improve our product. Keep striving!!

Hi Chantel, I think every writer has been there. :) After I recognized that I was essentially writing plays and calling them screenplays, I dedicated 18 months to picking the brains of everyone I could find - from the ordained gurus, to award-winning screenwriters, to studio readers. Whether by webinar, books, articles or free YouTube videos, what I learned about the craft was invaluable. I will just share a few of my favorites:

__ ROBERT MCKEE's seminal book STORY, you'll be a better writer for it (he rails against formula, but hails form)

__COREY MANDELL speaking about CREATIVE INTEGRATION - and how to it changed the way he taught screenwriting at UCLA

__COREY MANDELL speaking about rewrites - and how to listen for "the note behind the note" (this will change your life!)

__Know that studio readers admit that they scan scripts visually to ensure there is a balance of white space. In other words, that it is neither dialog nor action heavy. They also say the biggest mistake writers make is jumping right into the conflict. Agreeing with the structure experts who suggest it's much better to show the character in their own natural environment, before the "inciting incident" that starts them on their quest or journey. Since readers are the gatekeepers, their insight is unique, interesting, and very valuable.

But by far, the best advice I received was to treat every scene like a mini screenplay. Always keeping in mind the elements of great a story - set-ups for later pay-offs; obstacles that build up the tension toward a release - only to replaced by the ultimate "sink or swim" obstacle; reversals; twists; organic dialog that cleverly disguises exposition; and subtext, subtext, subtext.

You already have all you'll ever need to accomplish anything in life, btw. A wonderfully humble and teachable spirit,. THAT natural disposition will take you the furthest. The rest is just technique, and anybody can learn that.

I learn to smash negative feedback. To many rewrites can hurt your project. It can loose its favor. What I'm trying to say. Keep the faith and let nothing get in your way.

Dan Guardino Been listening to Marie Kondo's "Magic Art of Tidying Up" as I finish editing my book on sorting. She suggests "all at once" is important. Or "Get 'er done" as Larry da Cable Guy says.

Linda, I take feedback very seriously as well. I had my feelings bruised a bit recently, but, I gave it all some thought and just said I’m probably going to go through the full spectrum of emotions before reaching the goals I’ve envisioned, so, it’s ok. I’m tough. The experience, if not anything else, will be useful for my writing. One thing that always cheers me up is to reflect back on how I handle feedback—I always extract what’s useful and get right back to writing. I’m new to this—only three screenplays written, but I’ve got decades of stories so, I must keep writing and learning. Thank you for your kind advice.

Jean, wow—thank you for being so comprehensive and detailed in your comments. The people here are what I love the most about stage32, I’ve met such awesome folks. I’d like to attend a McKee seminar at some point. And, I’m going to definitely look at some of Corey Mandell’s videos—I hadn’t heard of him, so thank you for the resource. I’ve read quite a bit over the past few months and I can see transformations in my writing. It feels good. I think a lot of new screenwriters get discouraged with the amount of time required to get a handle on structure. I know I did, but I hung on, kept reading and re-reading, listening to audiobooks, webinars, videos, etc. It’s finally really sinking in. :)

Thanks Mark and Dan—I’m going to focus on writing well. You’re right, too much feedback isn’t helpful, especially to a new writer. It tends to be more overwhelming. Attending a rewrites class helped me tremendously though.

You will be just great. OOOrah! Marine Corps

Chantel, I'm so glad to hear you'll check him out, because CM is the real deal. He nearly sold his first screenplay while still in film school, then was hand picked by Ridley Scott to write a script for him. That launched his career. But it's the insights gained from teaching and working with aspiring screenwriters at UCLA that make him such a tremendous source of knowledge. He breaks down the two most common screenwriter strengths and weaknesses, and explains how to integrate them. He also admits that he mistakenly believed students with one or the other could never learn what they were lacking, but in time he proved himself wrong. TOP SHELF info! It's exciting to be able to apply so many newly acquired insights into my current and future scripts. Makes writing so much more of a fun challenge! I resisted structure before, but as McKee loves to point out, it's about FORM not formula. HUGE difference. ...Enjoy!

Jean, very interesting information. I’ve got his site saved and have already found some of his videos. I’m going to watch a couple tonight.

Thank you Mark—I was Army...so it’s HOOah!! ;)

HAPPY VETERANS DAY TO YOU.

Just don't outgrow your big girl pants because there will be more of that in the future if you 'tuff' it out...all the best wishes.

As women get older our pants get bigger anyway Doug.

Awww, thanks Doug—let’s pray as my writing continues to evolve, I do too!

Mark, Happy Veterans and Memorial Day to you too!

Thought I needed Size 36 waist. Needed a Size 40. The tailor told me, "Yes sir, gentlemen's slacks have a way of shrinking over time." I replied, "I'm buyin' whatever it is you're sellin'."

Lol Brian—where’d you find such a tailor? Utopia no doubt.

Good morning to all. We all know how small a mustard seed is? Let your faith be bigger than that. Amen