I answered a screenwriting trade ad about a month back. The "producer" that ran the ad claims they interviewed several writers and selected me for a work-for-hire agreement. One of the things my legal counsel has taught me is to redline anything you don't like or want on a contract. That's called negotiation. On Wednesday, the agreement came via Docusign, which I've only used for real estate deals, but I used the link to download the contract and gave it a thorough review today. My decision was to pass on this deal, and here is the note I sent to the producer:
Dear Producer:
Thanks for your consideration for the XXXXX rewrite. However, I feel your agreement is written wholly in favor of "The Producer" without present consideration for the writer. Therefore, I'm going to pass on further involvement in this project. Additionally, after reviewing the document, I have other concerns:
1) I haven't had the opportunity to review the original XXXXX script, so I have no way to calculate the work involved in the rewrite.
2) Since there is only a possibility versus probability of future monetary consideration with a production company or other interested party, I don't consider it a "write for hire" project but a spec project.
3) For something like this, I would consider a simple writer's producer/agreement stating a minimal amount of legal obligation with present and future consideration. However, your contract leaves me open to the possibility of litigation without any real incentive to sign it.
I wish you the best of luck securing another writer who feels comfortable with this agreement.
Regards,
Phillip
I didn't have my lawyer look at this document because this was an over-written, lousy agreement. And, this ain't my first time at the contract rodeo.
What say you, forum dwellers? Feel free to share your experiences.
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You did what you were supposed to do, Phillip E. Hardy, "The Real Deal". [To all writers] Always read the agreement or contract and know your worth as a writer (don't take just any job).
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Maurice: Well said and very succintly.
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Phillip E. Hardy, "The Real Deal", sometimes I read a job post and think, "Nope."
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Phillip E. Hardy, "The Real Deal" it sounds like a more complex version of “I have an idea, you write it and I may give you a percentage”.
This is an important message. People are willing to take a beating to “get their foot in the door”.
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Craig: I've taken a few.
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Dan: I've seen the same scam with so-called producers working with multiple parties. When I spoke with this person I wrote about in this thread, he seemed bright and had an excellent plan to go to a big 3 agency. And I allowed him to send his agreement. However, by page two, I decided I was out.
I've seen all kinds of scams going back to my days as an LA musician. I met a music attorney who wanted a retainer to represent me. He claimed to be working with Jerry Garcia and John Fogerty. There was no internet and cellphones back then. So when I checked out his Westwood office, it turned out to be a PO Box. And, when I went to his crappy apartment in WLA, he had a big pad on his coffee table that said in large handwriting, "Meeting with Garcia at 2:00 PM" and "Meeting with Fogerty at 3:30 PM." It was painfully phone and more than embarrassing for him. When I started to firmly question the lawyer, he got nervous and fell apart. However, a year later, I ran into Walter Egan (Magnet and Steel) and saw this legal clown hanging with his band. Walter remembered me from a recording session with did several years earlier. I advised Mister Egan to run for the hills.
But it's not just the lower-level producers you meet via trade sources. For example, I had a well-known hit television actor and his father/manager, who was associated with one of the biggest producers in Hollywood, try to play me. The father behaved highly unethically and tried to run a scam on me, not for money but for free work. Dishonest people abound at every level of the industry.
PS, another red flag for me now is someone who won't have a video conference with me to discuss possible business.
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Phillip, I'm so darn glad you posted this!
A week ago, a producer who'd joined Stage 32 earlier this month PM'ed me about wanting to produce some of the scripts I've written.
I've sent emails to quite a few producers, agents, and managers these last three years to get permission to send stuff of mine out...but since I joined 32, I'd never received a producer-initiated "Jim-send-me-your-material" message.
So...I checked this producer out.
Found him on IMDb; he's credited with having produced 25 films (some were shorts; the others were features) and done camera work for 16 others. And he even acted in eight more (one of them, "Leatherheads," starred George Clooney).
Based on this producer's address, I offered to send out "Fine Tooth Comb," since that screenplay was set not too far from where the producer calls home.
The producer's reply included his email address and...the mention of a $3,000 collaboration fee.
I told him I don't have the money.
So he offered to have me pay $1,500 and give him the rest when a crew is assembled.
My reply was that I don't even have that at the present time.
Next, he offered to get me aboard for $500-$1,000. And he talked about how we're in an invest-in-yourself environment.
To quote the late Justin Wilson: "That put me hot!"
I sent him a lengthy reply detailing what I'm up against. It included my working in a plastics factory when I'm not writing, my being on Medicare, my subscribing to Script Revolution, Network ISA, Prewrite, and having my own Website.
He's been suspended from Stage 32.
And I haven't sent him a cent...nor do I intend to, now that I know about his way of operating. (And besides, post after post here on 32 advises against paying upfront fees!)
I can (and WILL) do better than hooking up with this producer...especially since what he's helped package hasn't done too well in the IMDb ratings.
Well, that's enough of me. Phillip, I'm glad YOU'RE here on 32, and I wish you all the VERY BEST!
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Uncle Phil - that's not 'best practice'; it's ordinary every-day practice and it applies to more than writers. The talent pool is badly polluted by today's crop of scammers. I was pretty comfortable among the people I knew/worked with during yester-years but I'm pretty sour on todays crowd. Unfortunate!
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Jim: thank you for relaying your unfortunate experience. I'm very happy you didn't get fleeced.
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Phillip E. Hardy, "The Real Deal" I have also done free stuff when I was “desperate and dateless”. But these people never come back. Once you grow and are good enough to be paid, they move on to the next writer willing to work for free.
Exploitation is part of their business model.
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Jim Boston and Phillip E. Hardy, "The Real Deal" - you guys went to way more trouble than I would have with your respective "producers"! First mention of me paying anything - I'm out. BLOCKED! And with a contract I don't like - one email saying "Thanks, but no thanks." Any further contact...you guessed it...BLOCKED!
I give you both kudos for the perseverance!
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John:
I will have conversations with anyone to hear their pitch, idea, or proposal. However, I don’t waste much time with anyone who doesn’t bring something to the table that will benefit me. The story I told Dan M about the music attorney happened years ago. I only spent 30 minutes speaking with the person who sent me the contract, about 15 minutes reviewing, and 15 minutes writing a rejection note. I’m looking for someone with contacts and not looking to take on spec work for producers with dubious credentials. And, if you read any of my posts, I always advise folks to never pay to play. Thanks for your post.
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Thank you for posting this Phillip. Ever since I posted the logline for the script I'm currently working on, I've gotten a couple of sketchy messages from "producers" and "
"financers" that have thrown up red flags.
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Dan MaxXx lol, I met a then famed Macedonian producer/casting director when was pitching my first spec (won't name names, but he "held Tarantino's Oscar at '95 ceremony") and there was lotta talk (mostly him) but nothing else...
He's still around and we still shake hands time to time, and yes he's completely legit into film business over here...
...did I say we met at a café?
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Jim Boston Good for you for not getting taken. There was another post recently about a similar scam, also a $3000 "entry fee". A director friend of mine was hit by same in the last few months, same amount :D
In that latter one, the purported producer claimed to be representing a specific company. I happen to know someone who works with that company, so gave him a heads up.
Lastly, what was the name of the person?
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Christiane, his name is Richard Kelly.
And I found out about his home town of Illinois City, IL: It's an unincorporated burg on the Illinois side of the Illinois-Iowa border.
Thanks for posting...and I wish you all the VERY BEST! Glad you're here on Stage 32!
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Christiane - a $3,000 entry fee? Times must be getting tough (or screenwriters are getting dumber).
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I know A-list writers have per-day rates when rewriting on set, but other than that, how can you possibly charge a fair price for work if you don't know the scope of the work? You did the right thing, mate. I always insist on reviewing the client's screenplay. It's in both of our interests. It's surprising, though, how many are not willing to do that.
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Doug Nelson I know, right? I just think it's funny that there is suddenly this avalanche of people trying to pull the same scam, with the same amount of money. Makes me think they have some scam artist conference in a Motel 6 somewhere.
At the same time, it doesn't surprise me that much. Working for the 'exposure' has been standard in the creative world for ages now. Paying for the chance to maybe work couldn't be far behind.
Phillip E. Hardy, "The Real Deal" Nice one, Phil. Always on point. I have a friend who has been successful in business for decades. His point of view means a lot to me. He said this, “the more words, the greater the BS.”
And yes, that seems to be a good rule of thumb. The wordier the document, the more likely the writer is trying to hide something. That talent without representation will very likely miss the important details. And that’s what I look for these days, in any contract, the more words, the greater my suspicions..
Thanks for sharing, Phil.
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“PS, another red flag for me now is someone who won't have a video conference with me to discuss possible business.” More good advice here, Phil. Thank you.
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Thanks for sharing
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Jim Boston Jim, thank you for sharing that experience. I’m glad you had the mettle to call him out and pass on his ‘generous’ offer. Haha!
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Geoff: Thanks, my friend!
Wendy: I'm blessed to be married to an attorney, but now I can spot something without consulting my bride.
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Phillip E. Hardy, "The Real Deal" so we marry those who meet our greatest needs. You, an attorney. Me, a Physiotherapist!
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Geoff: Haha! We both made good picks.
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Geoff, you're so very welcome!
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Claude: I never pay anyone to evaluate work.
Great post, great replies. Thank you.
Vicki:
Thank you and I hope it helps.