Screenwriting : I'm super frustrated by Beau The Cat

The irony of this post is that you want to be taken seriously, yet you created a profile as a cat . . .

you are illustrating my point, further. what does the picture matter? its the words that should matter. I'm not a model, I'm a writer

I think you're illustrating the point that you're labouring under a misapprehension that the problem lies with everyone else and not you.

You're clearly not a cat, so why would you create a profile on a site with a cat's name and image - that's hardly what someone who is aspiring to be a professional working writer does?

Do you think your peer writers or anyone working in the industry, readers, agents, managers, producers, reading this post, or looking at your profile wants to work with someone who is less than professional in attitude?

Nobody expects you to be a model, but you're hardly signing your screenplays as Beau The Cat . . .

thank you for your thoughts and opinions. i will take them into consideration

Which screenwriting software do you use?

i don't. I write my scripts on apple pages. I know how to format scripts pretty well, the only thing i do different from final draft is the font, which i use a comparable one to courier so that sizes stay essentially the same but its far less likely that you will read a different word in your head due to dyslexia. But this one change alone seems to really bother people who read and write screenplays. as i said, this doesn't at all bother beta-readers who specialize in prose, and they tend to like my scripts. Its the screenplay writer/readers that dont like it.

I doubt that industry readers are going to change their behaviour, so really the only possible solution lies on your end. I'd suggest checking out some of the free/low-cost scriptwriting software such as Celtx, Writer Solo, Drama Qween etc.

Hi, Beau The Cat. Courier is the industry standard, so if you change the font, you're going to get criticism. If you want to be seen as a professional, I suggest using Courier.

Thank you for your input. But i still feel that you are missing the point. There is no other such standard let alone in the industry but in all of art. Imagine if the industry standard was shooting on 16mm film, and nothing else could be taken seriously. Imagine if Picasso was told that he had to use a certain brush and paint with certain colors and use a certain stroke. Imagine is mozart was told he had to use a certain tempo with certain instruments. It doesnt make sense to tell me, a writer, that my story isn't worth reading because i use Hoefler instead of courier. to refuse to read my script because I divide it into 8 acts instead of three. or because i divide it into acts at all. You can tell me all you want about standards, but right now, the industry standard is to make bombs that no one wants to watch to the point where a major theater chain has gone bankrupt, cause no one wants to watch a movie about an old lady in a van. the industry standard sucks.

Beau:

You have rendered a wonderful philosophical argument. However, Maurice is correct. 12- point courier font is the industry standard. I speak from experience when I say until you correct your formatting issues, they'll be a distraction for the festival, contest, and industry readers. As stated earlier in this thread, I recommend purchasing professional scriptwriting software. Best of luck with your writing.

Hollywood ain't about to change its evil ways for you, me or anybody else. If you want to play in their sandbox, you gotta play by their rules - or get your own sandbox. My advice - take it or leave it - is learn to go with the flow.

I understand what you're saying about not being limited by standards in art, Beau The Cat, but that deals with a writer's style and the stories they tell. Not font. Here's an article that'll show you why Courier is the standard: https://www.socreate.it/en/blogs/screenwriting/why-we-use-courier-for-tr...

Lol, I am curious. Please screenshot one screenplay page using Hoefler font.

If someone is focusing on the font you use they probably haven't even read the script. I guess the easy fix is to make sure all the formatting is industry standard. 1ST EXEC: "Why did you pass on Bill Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet? 2ND EXEC: He didn't use Courier. 1ST EXEC: "What a dick!"

I was told, when I took a "Writing for Star Trek" course, which I really enjoyed, they said they don't look at a script if it's not formatted correctly. The logic being that if you can't format the script, the story can't be good. So, it may not be that unusual. I don't know but I'm sure you will get past this.

Beau The Cat Let me start by saying, there are lots of people on this platform who say they are producers or experienced readers and they are NOT. So take it maybe with a grain of salt but I would also say get a free version of Final Draft and check your format just to make sure. Also, not sure who you are sending your script to get notes but please make sure you are researching them, outside of this platform to make sure they are looking for your type of script otherwise they may not be interested in even reading. Everything is subjective, if you still feel like you wasted your $$$$ I would reach out to Jason Mirch and let him know and I am sure they will offer you another read-through for free with a producer they pick for you! I do agree with some of the others about your name, it is not professional. Best of luck!!!

YES! Thank you, @Stephen Campbell! Thats exactly the point I'm trying to make! Its mot just that they're not even reading my script. cause :ahem: i DON'T care if they want to make my movie. Its all the other movies. all the other scripts. if what they want is for writers to conform then they're just always going to get conformist garbage, and if they refuse to read something different, they would never get around to Shakespear cause Shakespeare a) wrote by hand, b) didnt write action lines, c) wrote lyrically in sonnet form. and again, for everyone talking about standards i refer you to cine world and regal cinemas bankruptcy: the standard is to make bombs that dont make anyone money and no one wants to watch. and You know the thing about Everything, Everywhere and All at Once? They dont have courier in Korea

And for Dan MaxXx , here you go. make fun of me all you want

Beau The Cat Everything, Everywhere All At Once was written in Courier. https://thescriptlab.com/property/everything-everywhere-all-at-once/

Hi Beau I want you to think about this. Screenplay format is there (mostly) as a standard.

The thing about standards is that they make people comfortable. By not using something like standard screenplay formatting you are working against yourself.

The format is the first thing most people learn. So a reader will see your work and think “this writer hasn’t learned the basics”. You are now battling against that first impression.

It is up to you, but I would rather be remembered for great writing not some strange formatting choice. Standard formatting is invisible to people that read a lot of screenplays. It is natural to them.

@Heather Ostrove, you're right. I talked out of my ass for that one. please switch Everthing Everywhere for Squid Game instead, which is a tv series, but still.

The thing about formatting is that it is the one thing that has the potential to put you and your writing on the same level as the pros, so why not leverage that? The others who have chimed in with similar are 100% correct. Unless you are producing the films yourself, it is the first step to get your scripts taken seriously. There are far too many scripts that need to be read by decision makers for them to struggle through. Courier also plays a part in the breakdown of pages for production so there is a reason for it.

You can work in whatever font best suits you, but it takes 3 minutes, ok, maybe 7, to reformat to standard specs before sending it to someone.

Refusing standard specs is a bit like insisting on interviewing for a bank manager position in a tie-dye T. Even with a Wharton MBA, that is going to be a hard sell.

Stick to the format. Just get a good script editor, the tool will do the format for you, and you dont need to care about firmat anymore. This is not about the firnat, but about the production. A script is diferent from a novel, as a script will be used as a toll for production, direction, actors, etc. That is why format is so important.

Beau The Cat thanks for posting screenshot. Hoefler font looks easy to read for me.... but your page formatting needs work.

Dan MaxXx thank you for that. would you care to elaborate?

Yes, the weird oversized font bolding, dialogue margins are off, unnecessary camera shots. The Page reads like a shooting script/storyboard pre-vis. Would make me mentally tired if you are doing this style for 100+ pages.

thank you for your input

You may think its not important, apparently everyone else reviewing your script does. Maybe hire someone to go through and correct all your grammar mistakes, THEN submit for notes.

grammar mistakes? I don't see any on that page. Could you please care to elaborate?

I know it seems trivial, but the standard format is the standard format.

Hi Beau The Cat, About your statement: "There is no other such standard let alone in the industry but in all of the art." There are standards all over the place. And sorry, but classical music is the one that has most of the standards. All the people we call great classic composers today, like Mozart, wrote music as a job and wrote music based on standards that they know pretty well. Not only structure standards but also editing standards. The western music scale is a standard. The sheet music, scores, and music notation are standard themselves, created in 1473. it is 549 years old. And we know Mozart's music because everyone in the music business knows music scores standard. Without standards for printed music, none would ever hear Mozart's music.

Another point Beau The Cat If you "DON'T care if they want to make my movie", why do you want them to read it? Why do you care they only want to read scripts that are in the industry standard? Just get your script and self-publish it. But don't blame the whole industry because your artistic view about what a writer's freedom is don't match with the ones that produce movies. That is life.

Beau The Cat Before starting to write scripts, I wrote non-fiction and novels. My first editor teaches me all I know about book standards. Yes, there are book standards also. Some writers don't know them because editors format their books correctly after they get the messy manuscript. Publishers and Editors do, and Producers don't because you can edit and publish a book with two or three people, and you need hundreds of people to produce a movie.

There is no longer any point to this discussion. Just my pov.

Can you send me your script. I will read your first ten pages at least and give notes. Most of the time I have found that people who believe their scripts are incredible actually are terrible. Lets see what youve got.

challenge accepted

we need to be "connected" or whatever so i can message you.

This is a dumb conversation. That screenshot is everything youre not supposed to do. Stop being stubborn, learn correct format, take out the ridiculous camera direction, write in human font size, and listen to what pros tell you. it's not that hard. No one's going to be able to focus on the important story stuff because everything else is insanely distracting. You wanna be a screenwriter? write in screenplay format. period. You can have STYLE and add your own flare, but the basics are the basics!

screw it. here's a link to the script. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1atzxCsuwkHUXYoxtMAh37cB937VUGcmj/view?u...

As a former editor, I can say with experience that formatting is very important. Even more important is the willingness to follow standard guidelines. These guidelines aren't there to stifle creativity. Might be a good idea to step back and reconsider. :-)

Even fight club had rules.

Beau The Cat OK, I read the first10 pages or so:

1. The format, obviously.

2. Instead of all those camera directions, set the scenes better. Where are we? When is this? What does the town look like? Setting the scenes succinctly and evocatively helps engage the reader and build atmosphere, but also provides the visuals the director will need to decide on the shots.

3. When the Keeper unveils, their jaws drop at her beauty, but half her face is missing?

4. Don't use dialogue as exposition.

5. Avoid loads of unnamed characters talking. It's distracting and confusing. Better to have something like: The Keeper walks over to the miners and focuses in on Billy-Bob, worn and dirty, ...

thank you for your input

@Rhonda [won't let me tag again] I'm also a former editor, and yes! It is a matter of being professional and respecting the professionalism and time of others.

@christiane I don't feel that i have been disrespectufl to anyone on this thread, on the contrary. In any case, thank you for your input. i will take it into consideration.

Beau The Cat I didn't mean to imply that you had been. My comment had to do with sending badly formatted stuff to industry readers. When you do that in a professional setting, the person on the receiving end will on some level perceive it as you not respecting their time and the job they do. Never a good way to start a relationship.

It will also make them wonder if you are unable to understand basic instructions, since standard script formatting is easy to look up. Again, not a great first impression to make.

@christiane this is not a proffessional setting. I am not trying to start a relationship with strangers on the internet, professional or otherwise. i do not trust you or your profile picture or your public bio. the script in that link is formatted to the standard. there is no actual exposition (for something that matters to the plot) the only exposition is made to set the scene. I do set the scene but going into too much detail is taboo in screenwriting because thats the set designers job. By naming him the miner you already know what he looks like, you just described him perfectly yourself without my hving to. and obviously their jaws drop because half her face is missing,. I have a hard time believing that you honestly didn't understand that. I do not trust in your proffessionalism. But none the less, thank your for your input. i will take it into consideration

Hey, Beau The Cat! I'm Kay, the Community Manager here at Stage 32. Good to meet you! I wanted to take a moment and thank everyone for contributing to this lively debate. This is absolutely what this community is here for - to discuss, grow and share in the craft and business of film & television (and digital media). Here are just a few things to keep in mind, however, when posting, commenting, and otherwise engaging with this community:

1) This platform is exclusively for film, television, and digital media professionals (or those looking to get into the profession). While there are other social media sites to network with those in the industry, this is the only one that is built on the idea that we are all here to lift each other up.

2) With that in mind, each of you is at liberty to decide for yourself whether or not the notes you receive is worth your time or money. It can absolutely be frustrating to receive notes that don't align with what you were hoping to hear, but if someone takes the time to give you notes, it is your responsibility to figure out why they are important. Getting mad at others for not meeting your expectations neither lifts anyone up nor does it allow us to improve at our craft. The question any of us has to ask ourselves after receiving feedback is simply - what are YOU going to do about it?

* I would HIGHLY recommend taking Anna Henry's webinar "Getting Notes on Your Script and What They Actually Mean: The Note Behind the Note": https://www.stage32.com/webinars/How-to-Handle-Notes-on-Your-Script-Type...

3) It is a gracious thing for someone to take a moment out of their day, their lives, to offer up insight free of charge. In this case, I'm referring to all the good people in this thread who offered helpful insights. As we all know too well, anyone can have opinions, but it takes a very special someone to have insights. THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR INSIGHTS! If you are fortunate enough to have people you know that can give notes to the quality that you require and in the time that you require without charging you, PLEASE be thankful for such fortune! But all too often, the Production Triangle demands at some point we must pay for quality (i.e. If you need it Fast & Cheap, it won't be Good. If you need it Cheap & Good, it won't be Fast. and If you need it Fast & Good, it won't be Cheap).

At the end of the day, having paid script services available simply gives people more choices. Not having those services would take that choice away. This thread is a great example that you can still receive informative, thorough feedback for FREE by engaging with the community, but it still may not be what you want to hear. At the end of the day, it's up to you to act upon the note or not.

Along those lines, I'd love to invite those following this thread to give a shout-out to the amazing people you've received free notes from! Give them a little love by commenting with their names, what you loved about their free feedback, and a generous THANK YOU! Was it quick? Was it honest? Was it encouraging? Was it thorough? Let's celebrate these generous souls!

im sorry, are we taking comments about professionalism from a Cat now? wtf.

Beau The Cat :D You misunderstood my point about professionalism. I was not referring to this forum, but to when you send it out to ... professionals.

There is exposition in your dialog. And, no, it was not clear why their jaws dropped, because she was immediately described as beautiful. The script is not in standard format, cause it is not Courier, and the margins are odd. You basically misunderstood and took offense to every comment. This is not constructive. But hey, you do you.

Danny Manus :P

@Dan Guardino :) No harm, no foul.