De Niro and Rachel Zegler have ultimately destroyed their brand by attacking half of the American Population and now it is showing in the pockets of Hollywood. Therefore, this is the result, failures at the box office and their brand.
This is a major shift away from Hollywood like we have never seen before. Just 100 years ago Hollywood was grinding out 150-200 films a year and now it takes them upwards to 5 years to make a movie is pathetic and shows how bloated and wasteful they are, and because of this they are way behind.
Why Joe Rogan and so many others have moved outside of the system of Hollywood and they are starting to take over. Hollywood cannot keep losing money like this forever, and could we see Elon Musk buy a major studio at a great price or even Rogan?
Why are you saying all of these things you may be asking yourself, if you have made it this far, well: as a Screenplay Writer, you have to see these trends coming and prepare for them. I really believe that Writers like you and I, will be on the front lines of this change happening now, because we have the stories the new Hollywood Needs.
Please let me know what you think.
Cheers,
Mark!
Story:
When was the last great comedy movie?
It's a question that's been circulating among comedians, comedy actors and writers alike, with "The Joe Rogan Experience" recently dedicating an episode to it.
Fellow comedian Steve Byrne, who just sold out five shows at Rogan's new club during South by Southwest (SXSW)'s annual comedy festival, has an answer.
If you don't know Byrne from Rogan's Comedy Mothership, then surely you know him from his "Sullivan & Son" days, or his viral clips on social media. The veteran comedian sat down exclusively with Fox News Digital in Austin, Texas, ahead of his fifth and final show last weekend, where he laughed about his most notable career flops and cried over his friendship with Vince Vaughn.
But for the comic, the movie industry’s recent trajectory is no laughing matter, citing films like "Bridesmaids," "Wedding Crashers," "Superbad" and "The Hangover" as being the last few "hardcore, R-rated, no-holds-barred" films to hit theaters.
Link:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/entertainment/entertainment-celebrity/comedian...
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I've noticed a lot of creatives and industry pros are moving outside the Hollywood system to do their own things, Mark Deuce. You're right. Screenwriters have to see these trends coming and prepare for them. I've been working in the indie system my whole career and getting micro-budget and low-budget scripts ready, so I'm prepared for the indie movement we've been seeing more and more of. I'm still aiming to work in the Hollywood system too.
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Congratulations Maurice Vaughan for having your head on a swivel, because things are about to get very interesting, especially with Ai thrown into the mix.
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There seems to be a correlation that in the course of "destroying their brand," DeNiro and Zegler are the architects of the Fall of Hollywood. Nothing could be further from the truth. Bad films with sloppy, repetitive stories are killing Hollywood. Audiences are sick to death of the same ol' crap.
Those actors took hits for speaking their mind during an inquisition of Cancel Culture. In this zeitgeist, some will decry the sun for its color as it rises above their heads. It's all noise and nonsense.
Film and all the arts have always, and will continue to, reflect the times in which they are made. Certainly watch trends and keep an ear to the rail. However, it seems best to write good stuff about what you damn well please.
We are all the caretakers of our own souls. Treasure that.
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Yet, When De Niro went on a Tirade attacking Trump supporters and Zegler basically doing the same by saying if you do not believe like her then she does not want your business is, and has destroyed their brands, and why no one is watching their movies. You cannot attack half the country and expect to keep making money E Langley and Hollywood is learning the hard way not to piss off 200+ million folks which is paving the way for new Indie creators, your right, we are the caretakers of our souls and our mouths as well. Cheers.
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Maybe they were contributory but DeNiro stars in another tired gangster flick and Zegler contributed to a spent live action remake of a beloved Disney animated film among more than a dozen iterations. Hollywood should grow a pair.
Two hundred million is a shade high. Thirty-four percent approval. About 70 million rabid diehards.
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Just released, this timely "Deadline" piece about Red/Blue ticket sales.
In the story, "While we can’t deny that the Zegler and dwarves’ controversy didn’t impact Snow White, its ceiling at the box office can also be attributed to the fact that there’s a lack of demand for older Disney IP, not to mention there wasn’t a crossover audience for the film."
Alas, Hollywood is buckling under the pressure of demonizing DEI. The cowards.
https://deadline.com/2025/03/snow-white-box-office-blue-red-states-12363...
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I’m unclear. Are you saying De Niro and Zegler being political is destroying their brand and Hollywood? That filmmaking should not be political? There’s a place for good escapist fun. But for me, stories are a way to tell the terrible truths - about racism, genocide, pedophiles, sexual assault and yes, threats to democracy. Storytelling and art of all kinds throughout history are ways of speaking out against tyrants. May that never change.
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I am beyond tired of current-day politics in entertainment. It’s why I largely consume older media (that and I’m catching up on stuff I missed out on at the time which is… a lot lol).
As a writer I want whoever reads my stuff to have fun and forget about real life because of all the worlds they could have stepped into, they chose mine. And I personally don’t like getting political unless a situation calls for it. This is probably gonna make it very hard for me to sell material but I don’t care, I have too much pride as an artist :)
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I think the opposite is true. If there’s ever a time for fun scripts, now is it!
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I appreciate everyone's comments. Although I am drawn to humor, I love a good thriller. I am not apposed to watching work that is political. Being completely honest, I need a break from the real world more often than not. Good comedies don't keep me up at night...unless I'm writing one. :)
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Well Phoenix Black it is not working out well for De Niro and Zegler and all of Hollywood as you can see everything that has come out of the big box studios are complete failures and folks are tired of it. It shows because no butts in the seats means no money funds for the future and investors retreating to indies who can turn a quick profit on little. Like Hollywood was 100 years ago where they turned out 150-200 films a year! This is an opportunity for us writers as well!
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Here! Here! Banafsheh Esmailzadeh I totally agree and just look at the 80s and 90s, I had no idea that would the golden age of film and wish we could see that again. The movies were prettymuch all FUN. Terminator, Indian Jones and more.
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That has been lost in Hollywood Nancy Pushkar and why we see it falling. Hopefully we can see a course change soon or else it is bye, bye.
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Tarantino's movies are all great comedies. But other movie makers need to stop trying to create the same roller coaster rides as QT, because they only get the pain right.
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Mark Deuce My thoughts exactly, entertainment from back then especially was just that, entertainment. Not to go on a whole rant, but film today definitely has lost a lot of its magic due to forgetting that simple fact.
Comedy I feel has especially suffered; too many rules and restrictions and concerns of not alienating certain viewers and reinforcing certain messages, whereas comedy shines brightest in the dark. Most comedy movies I see now barely get a "heh" out of me. Meanwhile I most recently watched "Team America: World Police" for the first time with my friends a while back and I absolutely loved it.
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'Butts in the seats'... way too old school thinking. More channels exist for films of more different types than ever before. The movie industry is burgeoning with opportunity to create product. Using Hollywood as the nexus for movies ignores the global nature of the creative class that makes up the movie industry. I find your thesis less as the end of Hollywood and more as a pitch for comedy clubs. A movie has a much longer life due to the variety of channels where it can be marketed to a targeted audience. If you still define box office as a booth where tickets are sold, you need to catch up. So Mark Deuce , what else you got on the business of movies?
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Comedy Clubs are just the beginning Robert Franklin Godwin III and a sign folks are moving out of Hollywood. Just look at all of the A-List Actors, they have all but with a few exceptions have moved out of Hollywood, and they did this way before Trump. Just look at A24 who is taking the industry by storm and is going to be the next Brick and Mortar Netflix. And I agree that Butts in the seats is old school, but ticket sales are whats driving everything and soon theatres will go as the Drive-ins. This is an opportunity for us Screenplay writers to get a new lease on life, because Indie studios are easier to pitch to. Plus, they are looking for new material as well. Cheers.
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You are Spot-On Banafsheh Esmailzadeh and when was the last great Comedy? Dumber and Dumber, Napoleon Dynamite, Airplane, Scary Movie series? Hopefully, we can get some of that comedy back.
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I agree Wal Friman
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Totally agree with your take, Mark! It'll be up to writers and creators alike to pick up the slack and start making stories and films that people actually like and want to support. With that said, I hope to be part of the fight to bring back epic stories lol Viva la Revolucion!
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I think it is a bit sad that artists can't speak their mind or make a stand for something they believe in without it being considered an "attack". Let's agree to disagree. No attacking involved.
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Lol Maria Restivo Glassner again, you cannot be political when making movies, because this is the result: Zegler and De Niro attacked, not voiced their opinon which is different. Alienating 200+ millions potenital customers is called Brand destroying. Zegler also went on to say if you did not agree with her politcal views that she did not want your business was complete sabotgae of her brand, Disney´s, and the film in all one fell swoop of disaster. Opinion is one thing, but these two took it to a whole other level. And we ll can see the results. Cheers!
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Exactly Holly Fouche and that is why A24 and Netflix is doing so well right now and this is a great opportunity for us writers as well. Cheers!
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Excellent question Mark Deuce, I definitely enjoyed Napoleon Dynamite and I thought Crazy Stupid Love was also really good for newer releases. I hope comedies like that make a comeback but definitely what needs to happen is a doing-away of modern-day sensibilities of what's acceptable to joke about and what isn't.
Lately I've happened upon Chat Music on YouTube and I've legit never laughed so hard (there's even four videos [so far] dedicated to Rachel Zegler's Snow White). I can only hope my comedy slaps even half as hard but I'm doing my best XD
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All art is political because it's made within the context of a political world. You disagreeing doesn't make it any less sociologically true. Using Indiana Jones and Terminator as examples of nonpolitical movies (Industrial nations dominion over developing countries/Tech progress marching in step with the war machine) would also be hilarious if you weren't serious.
DeNiro had made the same comments about Trump supporters before Joker was released, and it still made a billion dollars, so the argument that Alto Knights and Snow White are losing money because of their politically oriented actors is about the dumbest level of analysis that could be taken from the situation. This site really needs a block feature lol.
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I need to check them out Banafsheh Esmailzadeh and you are going to be a hit!!
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Whether we agree or not David Michael Kelly just look at the collapse of Hollywood films of late: Zegler and De Niro are great examples. It is alright to be political when you are at home, but when you have a 370 million dollar film you are staring in and you tell folks you do not need their business if you don´t agree with me is something else. That says it all and with AI coming on strong, soon many will lose their jobs and the studios will be scaled down to bare bones with those who can use AI prompts and systems.
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Mark Deuce Enough with the crystal predictions of disaster. You're making a mountain out of a mole hill. The vibrancy of this industry does not hinge on a couple of box office flops. Citizen Kane 1941, flop. Heavans Gate 1980, flop. The Lone Ranger 2013, flop. Yet the industry is still producing films. Hits are few and far between. Thirty years ago, a movie had two weeks to show gross revenue. Now a movie can be and is remarketed through multiple channels. Arguably, the industry is healthier regarding revenue generating opportunity than any time since the Nickelodeon arcades. Frankly, you come off in your posts like you are shilling for something, but can't quite spit it out.
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Thank you Mark Deuce! I’ll do my best and I’ll be on the lookout for your stuff, too! Enjoy the chat music hehe~
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Thank you Robert Franklin Godwin III. The DEADLINE article disproves the actor's involvement in sinking these films, and breaks it down Red State/Blue State. Why it's still being harped on is a mystery.
https://deadline.com/2025/03/snow-white-box-office-blue-red-states-12363...
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E Langley Yes I read it a few days ago.
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judging by the absolute trash that has just picked up 4 or 5 Oscars, I'm not surprised Hollywood's "losing it". Then again, this is like, "just my opinion, man" and the discussion has many facets and many angles, a lot of ins and outs. I watched this YT video on the subject of where movie making is today here "Why Do Movies Look Worse Now?": https://youtu.be/w31ywg_3PaM?si=jZEtfbfjN_s9JaOE
Great, Robert Franklin Godwin III. I wish others would.
ANORA won five this year, THE BRUTALIST, three. So you must mean ANORA, Topher Neville.
The natives are certainly restless today.
Lol E Langley this is why Zegler flopped and will probably never work in Hollywood again after this. Disney will lose 200 million, and why they did not premiere this film of her´s because they did not want her talking to press. Deadline article or not. Same with De Niro, they are done. Juss Say´in.
Exactly Topher Neville and most Americans never even knew what these films were, and show how out of touch Hollywood is right now. And thanks for the Video Bro!
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Talk to ya soon Banafsheh Esmailzadeh
I'd debate you Mark Deuce but it's been fifteen minute since I posted a logline for a script I haven't written so I better get on that. Juss say'n. LOL
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You can have a different opinion than Mark, E Langley, but there's no need to mock him. Mark -- and anyone on Stage 32 -- can post ideas for scripts he hasn't written yet.
E Langley am I a native? Anyway The Substance is a brilliant film and I'm not particularly into Horror flix, yet I know what makes a good script, a good performance and sure as hell wouldn't film my feature for cinematic release with poor lighting and smash cuts to amateur porn moments that belong on PornHub!
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Mark Deuce What gets lost in discussions like these is the historical reality of the movie business. The formula for success is Art + Business = Cinema. Two of the most successful producers in the history of movies created some of the schlockiest entertainment. Russ Meyer made money with every movie he made. Roger Corman made millions producing low budget crap while launching some of the most successful people in film. Meyer's cast Jack Nicholson in Little Shop of Horrors and Corman gave Ron Howard his chance to direct a feature. Looking back and opining 'films used to be so good and now they suck' is the rose-colored glasses version of the past. Not real. And by the way, the crappy 1960 Little Shop of Horrors became an Off-Broadway musical followed by a film version. Movies are intellectually property that can generate revenue in many ways and over long periods of time. Looking at a single incident and using it as a predictor of things to come is ill-advised and foolish. BTW, if 82-year-old DeNiro never works again it will be because he didn't want to, not because he spoke his mind.
Okay. Sure, sure. Sitting up straight in my chair and flying right. No more satire of things that many are thinking anyway. LOL
Haven't the foggiest, Topher Neville.
I simply can't agree that Art + Business = Cinema. Traditionally most filmmakers were totally irresponsible with money. It's about the creative vision and getting it to the screen. The money men were separated from the creative process by the demands of running a business (ie a studio). So the conflict always rolled over from production to production, too much money being spent and nothing to show for it! I'm recasting that equation to look like this: Cinema = Art / Business.
Topher Neville I understand that you don't agree, but you are also wrong. A studio is a business, first and foremost. It produces product using creatives. The studio provides the funding to create the movie and the creatives manufacture the product. Movie studios are factories, always have been. Producers need the funding (business) and creative content (art) to make movies (cinema). Your thesis seems to rely on art and business being at odds with each other. Recognize the interdependence and the symbiotic relationship becomes clear. Your statement "most filmmakers were totally irresponsible with money" misunderstands the dynamic between management and labor. There will always be tension surrounding a budget, as most households understand at a very personal level. No different in the studios.
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Why Hollywood is losing money? Hollywood traditionally kept religion out of their pictures. Still today? No. Not since the media created two camps in the society and with that politics practically is religion.
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Wal Friman Have you tried the Google Machine? A couple of Hollywood films with religion as the topic or subtext. Samarsa, Religulous, Zeitgeist, Noah, Jesus Camp, The Passion of the Christ, The Greatest Story ever told, Benhur, The Ten Commandments, The Last Temptation of Christ, Jesus Christ Superstar, Hajj: The Journey of a Liftime, Shoah, El Topo, Jesus of Montreal, The Song of Bernadette; Koran by Heart source: IMDB
What created two camps is not media but rather a suggestion to demonize media.
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Charlie Chaplin was one of the founders of Hollywood and he was a creative first, because he said that if his films were not funny he made no money! He would always have his hand on the pulse of his films and make adjustments before the business aspect, because the money would always flow when the film was perfect and Hollywood has lost that Robert Franklin Godwin III and E Langley . And you are right Topher Neville that the industry needs to get back to creating high quality Art/films that eveeryone enjoys and for me it is Creatives/Art/Cinema = Big Business! Cheers to all!
I agree Wal Friman and thanks to Production Companies like Angel Studios religion is making a comeback in the movie industry.
TL:DR
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Continuing my point for those interested. The opposing viewpoints taught by religion are huge and emotionally loaded. The emotional disagreement is always "only how I was taught is reality based". The media does the same today. Hollywood might have to react to that.
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People have talked about the industry's inner workings for years, both those working in it and outside it. And it's interesting to note that as far back as Chaplin Mark Deuce , the relationship between art and entertainment was forged. And having worked at Pinewood Studios in the UK on independent projects, I've found that any project always boils down to the gulf between the great script and getting the money to make it. Many independent filmmakers find this. That's why Art / Business = Cinema, because the Art and the Business side need to compromise in order to fuse and make a decent 'picture'. (I'm very fond of that old fashioned word for film a 'picture' - especially since there isn't much 35mm film being processed these days)
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The big problem today is that filmmakers think they need large sums of money to create a film Topher Neville and just look at what Charlie Chaplin and the early trail blazers had to work with. Also look at the 30s and 40s how many crew they had, everyone fit on one page at the opening credits. Folks need to get back to the basics of the craft and money will follow.
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One of my favourite movies ever, The Fountain, has precious little CGI, in fact I read somewhere that they got the falling star effect from dripping oil or something. And it looks really cool. I'd like to think the same is possible for my projects, too.
I mean hell, if I absolutely have to I'll make a movie using paper puppets or something lol
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In the early 1900s they were so creative with so little Banafsheh Esmailzadeh and if they did you sure can too. Let´s Goooo!!!!
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Not surprised where all of this went.
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Mark Deuce isn't that weird that since the cheaper to make digital movie technology came out, these productions now have even bigger budgets than when there were rolls and rolls of film to develop and it was all so much more labour intensive? Maybe the idea of overfunding a flop like in The Producers became a real strategy.
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Topher Neville Hey Topher. For the record, on major features, film ( when it was still used as the norm), was close to the least expensive component of the final budget tally. For each of my screenplays, once I have received compentent notes, I have a proper budget estimate created by someone with actual production experience, often a line producer or a member of their team. Not too expensive. I have attached a sample, the summary, first two pages of seven, the last five pages being extremely detailed and specific. I do this based on the business (having the right amount of money to make the movie), the art (paying the skilled cafts people/talent to create the movie) and voila! Cinema exists as a product that theatres and streaming channels can sell. Or As I have stated in earlier posts in this string of misinformed posts, Business + Art = Cinema. Or put simply: no money, no movie.
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That is possible for sure Topher Neville and just look at Disney´s 1 Billion Dollar blunder where they are on track to lose upwards or 500 million. 100 years ago, the work ethic in hollywood was so much different and even in the 30s and 40s with all of the crew on one short page before the film credits.
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Mark Deuce Movie credits are a resume for the people who contribute to collobrative efforts required to make a film. The credits grew in volume as the studio system of the 20's, 30's and 40's evolved. More independent production talent, not employed directly by the studio, were used and those credits you disparage are how they can put their contribution on the product.
If you don't like credits, don't watch them.
Using them as an excuse, flawed as your arguments are, to infer workers are less productive than 100 years is as bogus as it gets.
The staffing at studios is minimal by comparison to the 30's and 40's even though the facilities and operations departments do provide services. Those departments are often credited simply as 'Filmed at Warner Bros.' the very studio outside of which film workers, writers, crew, actors were beaten by police on October 5, 1945 for daring to ask for worker's rights. The credits at the end of a film is a small price to pay to help those talented folk find work.
I have worked on those crews, know those people, and can state that none of them are lazy. No production can afford lazy. They just don't get called again. There is always someone else who is willing to work.
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Well, looking at the topic overall, I think the fact that there are no really good Comedy features coming out and the Disney dropoff in box office figures which has also affected cinema globally, has a lot to do with the pandemic and it's dreaded lockdowns, when nobody went out anywhere in the entire planet!
The statistics are on Forbes: https://www.forbes.com/sites/bradadgate/2021/04/13/the-impact-covid-19-h...
Do you not think that the system is way to bloated, could hollywood make a movie today with a crew of the 30s and 40s Robert Franklin Godwin III Indies are doing it everyday.
I think it goes way deeper than the scamdemic Topher Neville it is all political. It is fine for actors to have their opinons, but not connected to a film that costs a billion dollars. Gal for instance was a pro actor in all of this.
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Disney made $41.19 billlion in TV, Video and Film in 2024, up about 1.3% from 2023. Since 2010, the only significant down year was 2020 during the pandemic slowdown. This excludes the theme parks and cruise experiences revenue. I don't see how a comedy that did well would move the needle much. It would be nice, but a proverbial drop in the bucket.
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The highest grossing independent film was Gibson's The Passion of the Christ (2004) at about $917 million to date. With a $25 million budget, it made a lot of money. But not a comedy. I put the cast and crew into a spreadsheet and the credits included just under 700 talented craftspeople and artists. Second at $745 million was The Graduate (1967), and is a comedy. It had about 135 cast and crew. These are outliers by any measure and generated revenue over decades. Banking on a hit of the magnatude these films have shown is every producer's dream. And they rarely know in advance if it will be a hit, much less make a profit. Judgement should be long, not short, on the success of a film.
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Mark Deuce Bloated staffing? Ask Mel Gibson which cast or crew shouldn't have been hired in his hugley successful film? And as for speaking out about social issues and politics, Mr. Gibson is quite vocal. In regard to Zegly and DeNiro, it kind of makes the premise of your argument moot.
With Ai Robert Franklin Godwin III I really believe that the staff will change as we just saw with Amazong MGM fiiring their GM and not replacing her position. What is saving Disney is their Merch and parks for sure.
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Mark Deuce Uh, no. Disney Entertainment net operating income (NOI) grew by 450% YOY. Licensing (Merch) NOI increased but is only about 9% of the total. Experience (parks, cruises, etc.) NOI was $1.66 Billion and Entertainment (movies, TV, Radio) NOI $1.07 Billion. NOI is what is left over after everything is paid; in other words profit. Disney is doing quite well and is not about to fail and does not need 'saving'. All this information is available from the annual report and SEC filings. From stock holders to employees it is a better choice for this industry to cite facts, not fabrications that underpin a particular political view.
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Yet, they have to absorb a 500 million dollar loss and this is not their only failure as well Robert Franklin Godwin III I really think Disney is going to make some big moves soon, if they don´t they´ll not be relevant going forward. Have a Great weekend!
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Mark Deuce $500 million is a 1% loss for the entertainment division, assuming nothing else makes any money. It's a .05% loss for the whole company. Not too much to worry about. No need panic. If you think the Disney situation is so bad as to raise alram, what numbers should they be putting up?
1+ Billion per Feature Robert Franklin Godwin III
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the thing is, movie making is not all about business. It's an art first and foremost. If I just wanted to get rich in some business, I certainly wouldn't choose the movie industry for it.
Artists do what they do and make art. If someone hits the big time and makes a lot of money from it, they're really just very lucky. There are too many risk variables in entertainment to guarantee what will take off and what won't.
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Topher Neville Yes, movies are art. Some more so than others. The value is in that art, and is the reason why studios work so diligently to create a movie that will appeal to a targeted audience and fund its creation. It is high risk. And in that relationship between art and business is cinema.
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I totally agree Topher Neville for instance The Copenhagen Cowboy was the most beautiful show of art I have ever seen, I am mesemerized by it and it was cancled after one episode because they said it did not make money. So, you are right! Art before business.
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Well said Robert Franklin Godwin III
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Thank you all for your amazing comments!!