Screenwriting : Do you struggle to finish what you've started? by Keith A Jessop

No. So I ask you this; do you write an outline/treatment before you write the script?

Hi Marvin. Short answer is no: I have what I think is a complete story in my head, but it's only when I commit to paper (screen) that I realise that it's not complete at all. When I get an idea I have pictures of all of the characters, scenes, action etc vividly in my head and just have to start writing straight away. I've tried the outline thing a few times before but found that the overall concept slips away from me during that process.

Jim, that's interesting as for me it's usually the opposite - I have a brilliant opening & middle but then lose the plot (pun intended). To explore further: what I find is that my characters have a mind of their own and do things that I didn't expect & that's what often leaves me high and dry. Hope some of that makes sense

Jacqueline, thanks for your input - a writing partner is something I'd never considered: to me, writing is such a solitary art form. On reflection, however, it makes sense to have a like-minded person take a look at what you've done & suggest a way forward. Thanks again.

I find the process varies. You should write an outline to get you where you need to go, a road map to the creative process, but sometimes the characters and plot take on a life of their own in your mind and you have to follow these things to their conclusion. While writing a novel, despite my outlines, I found myself realizing that a character had to act a different way because of who they were, regardless of how I had plotted things at the outset, and this lead to a lot of long days of trying to figure out 'what now?'. Going off road and getting lost from the outline can be very disconcerting, but once you figure out what to do, write it back into the outline and see if you can plot a new course to keep things in line. Some of my scripts have left me in a rut as far as 'what now' is concerned, so I move on to another one, revisit later, and often this clears up my mind and let's me take a fresh approach on it. Not always a viable solution, but it might work if you've been stumped.

I generally know enough about what the sequel would be about to write a treatment. Not that I put any effort into writing the sequel or if I did write the sequel it would exactly end up following what I had come up with my mind's eye. But the majority of the key scenes would be the same. For instance although I have never written a script for the sequel to my 1940's Hollywood Actor/Pulp Hero script. I already know it goes from him becoming a special operative of the government. To him going to flight school. Teaming him up with several other special operatives into a clandestine strikeforce secretly dropped into the Russian Front to neutralize a super powered German. Climatic battle against said German a couple of hour drive from Moscow on December 7th 1941. His exile from United States in 1950's for allegedly being a Communist sympathizer. Include some romantic interest and pull a Tarantino sequential order switch and put the last part at the very beginning. Or maybe not. It's there if there ever needs to be a sequel.

Thanks Shane & Don, some useful advice there. I guess I will try the outline approach some more and see what happens.

Yeah I agree. The outline approach means there is a start and finish and what's needed in between... just continue to flush out the details so that the whole thing holds water...

1. TITLE. 2. LOG LINE. 3. Beat Sheet. In that order, then start writing. If you get lost - go back to the first 3 steps... writing this way will keep your story on track and provide continuing focus by simply making sure you stick to the Title, the Log line and the beat sheet.

I write the story out first like a really bad short story :) It helps me get a feeling for the flow. Then I work on character dev, followed by logline and beat sheet.

endings can be hard. Just stop jumping from project to project and stop expecting perfection. round up your plot lines end the thing THEN get it perfiect

Hi Keith, For me personally, the ending is the first idea that comes to me. Then I build the beginning and middle from that. Sounds weird, but that is what happens. Have you thought about combining the stories? I know it sounds silly too, but try reading all of them, then see if one story mashes with another. Just an idea.

i do

Fantastic suggestions there guys - thank you so much. I will try out a couple of these ideas and let you know how I get on. Gilda, particularly like your idea - I've written dozens of short stories so I think this might work for me.

I agree with earlier posts - it's crucial to figure out the ending before typing FADE IN. If not, the story won't carry you all the way.

I've struggled with this same problem all my life. I have found that the best success I have is when I have completely outlined my story ahead of time. I know where it is going before I begin writing. Extra surprises then occur in the writing process.

Keith, I have a good book for you, "Do The Work", by Steven Pressfield, a veteran screenwriter and author. Trust me. It's not some cookie cutter approach to writing. It only has one aim, to get your work finished.

Keith...I hope you don't try to go on a vacation without knowing where you're going...that is the same as not knowing the end of your story before you start writing...LOL. I know I've posted this link to a great article on my old website...but this article is great for outlining...it shows the screenwriting gurus story strucutre. I do not own nor promote the software mentioned by the writer of the article. Print this out...and use it when you get stuck...or when starting a new script. http://filmschoolnow.com/gurus.html

Dewey: good to know I'm not the only one. Based on earlier comments, I'm looking into outlining & beat sheets. Hopefully this will help. Michael - thanks, will look up that book. Curtis, thanks for the link - just on my way to take a look now.

you're not alone finishing can be a bugaboo for a lot of writers. Just try and know where your going and don't stop till you get there

At 80 pages, you're almost done. Some writers don't even get that far.

Keep going and finish it! Some people never do. Once you have done a pass, leave it for a while and then review it.

Just keep writing.... Then go back and read.... take out what's not needed.

Having the same problem precluded by extenuating circumstances. Thinking soon I may have the time to continue on without the current interruptions. Find your motivation and inspiration and continue on, heck you're a third of the way there.

I found the best way was to just keep writing, even though you think you don't know where it's going. It will definitely surprise you, sometimes wonderfully. Even if not, you'll have finished the bloody thing, and believe it or non, that'll make the next ones a bit easier.

Problem with me, I have too many pots on the boil at the moment.... I go from one to the other script in between writing stories for children.... I find just getting down and writing it, getting it down on paper regardless ... keep going... then go back and read again.... you soon see what you need to take out...or put in instead.... Oh... to want to be a writer....

Yes, keep writing til you get to what you think is the end and then go back and reread it. If you are writing a feature I think that is supposed to top out at 125 pages. Good luck.

Yep keep the flow going.... and the conversation in your head going....

oh, Janet, how I empathise. a million plots running through my head at the same time!!

Exactly Keith, that is the problem.... and a lot of good idea's flowing through in the process... Right in the middle of one... you come up with another idea... saints preserve, I am amazed that I am still sane mate... How about you?

Last two I've started I've left mid-stream. I think it's the difference in a short story and a novel. Sometimes there's not enough in the idea for a screenplay. Read what you've written, and rewrite them as shorts.

Hello Janet, I leave things mid stream too.... I sort of think out the entire story in my mind first, then I go ahead and start writing... I always retain the story in my head once thought about. I always know where I want to go before I go there.... then... work out how to get there by letting the story unfold as I go along.

Love your name, don't meet a lot of Janet's, lot of Jane's, Janice's, etc. I like to think I know how it will end, but sometimes a script will change as the characters take over. Writing is the only thing I know that lets you be crazy and everyone thinks its okay.

Great to meet you, another Janet from a different part of the planet.... I am known as Janet from another planet.... I know the ending can change... yes... and as so often it does. But, for me, thinking out the entire story is important to me... to get a feel for where I want to go. I like to make up my mind where I am going and then tiki tour around to see where it takes me.

Thank you Unk..... good advice.

No but I do struggle to start what I've finished.

I recently revisited the first screenplay I ever attempted to write (which stopped at about 40 pages) and began rewriting it. Im now deep into my third act and very close to the climax and even though its only a first draft I'm very happy with where the plot goes. It's always best to write some sort of treatment or at the very least bullet points of the important scenes (thats how I do it) or you'll get completely lost. Of course you will discover new things about your characters and plot as you write but you need to know the destination even know you may not know the exact road you're going to take. Sometimes its good to put a script away for a few weeks/months (in my case 2 years). Sometimes it's better to just beat out a first draft that is kinda shitty and then work from that. Good luck.

I shared the following suggestion with another Stage 32 member: ask your characters what they want to do. They sound like they're strong enough to have their own minds and do their own thing. Ask them why.

Look at your mini-pitch. If you can't summarize you story in 3 - 5 sentences, essentially telling us who is the protagonist, what is his/her goal, the main obstacle to that goal and the intriguing twist, then you're missing one of the key elements in your story which indicates a lack of complexity and that, in turn, is what causes you to run out of story by between page 40 and page 80.

I don't write from a complete set of notes as many do, but before I begin, I do know the beginning, the middle, and the end. Once I start typing, things may change, inspired moments, if you will, intruding and changing things, oftentimes for the better. I have tried to start with nothing, as you have, only once. That particular screenplay is sitting on the back burner ~ as of now, unfinished...

Just read what previous writers answered. It seems I'm in agreement with them. The only time I've been unable to finish is that previously mentioned script where I hadn't planned an ending.

Well, having thought out the beginning, middle and ending is a good start, but it doesn't answer Keith's problem of why he comes to a stop at page 80. His story may have the beginning, middle and end, but It is a lack of complexity in the story that has him coming up short at 80 pages... and that is where knowing the 8 key points of a story arc comes in handy and allows a writer to know if they have enough story to become a feature film.

Jim, Do you mind sharing the 8 key points - are they the same as Blake Snyder's?

When have I NOT struggled to finish the big projects? Almost always!

re: the comments "you must have the ending before you start" or "you must have the outline before you write it" <-- these are rules which work for some but not for all. There are a lot of tools for writers -- cards, outlines, summaries, loglines, defining character arcs, using beat sheets, etc. You don't HAVE to use any, but often it will be helpful to use some. If I were to write the end before I started writing, the enchantment/excitement wouldn't be there for me. So I don't do that. BUT I can outline & sketch out the ending, then refine when I get there in the script.

OUtline.

No. but I struggle to start what I've finished !!!!

Dude, finish it, no matter what. You know where it's going, you just don't want it to end. Trust me... once it's over, you have to face the "what do I do now?" phase... the most destructive phase of writing. End it and put it aside... and go ON TO SOMETHING ELSE! As a screenwriter, you always HAVE to HAVE something else to go on to after you're done with whatever you're working on. After a week (if you can't last longer) or whatever the term is, you'll come back to what you wrote with a new "eye" which will guarantee that you'll see all the things that don't work...much like my attempt to compose this message. The message is PUT IT DOWN until you can see what doesn't work. Your brilliance is often only obvious to you...

I know where you are coming from. Pick one of the scripts that just keeps coming to your mind. Turn off the tv and get to it. Keep at it and nothing else until you finish. Good luck.

Yes yes yes. "Finish what you started" is my mantra.

Re-read them from the first scrip on. That helps in re-imagining the action and dialog.

Easy: write the first scene, middle scene, end scene: if that DOESN'T read well, then rework, if it DOES, fill in the middle. My method anyway.

I always try to write a full treatment with beginning, middle and end. That way I have a clear idea of where I want it to go.

Agree with Brendan Faulkner. Write the treatment. Write the step outline. Write the 1st act, 2nd act, 3rd act synopsis. As you're writing, you'll get ideas for other screenplays. When that happens, write down a brief outline for the other screenplay or a log line, then return to your script. You've got to have the outline first.

Great advice Kris. Thanks

I research a lot, read articles about the subjet I'm writing it often brings new ideas