I started this project three years ago and we are now in preproduction on our animated feature film "Drew's World" with Max Howard executive producer... and Kitt Wakeley scoring the production.
I started this project three years ago and we are now in preproduction on our animated feature film "Drew's World" with Max Howard executive producer... and Kitt Wakeley scoring the production.
Hi everyone, I'm looking to fund projects. Any films worth investing in?
Hi, I'm looking for an investor to attach to my project.
It's a animated series called '2 yoots minus loot'
Genre is Adventure, comedy, scifi. I have 6 episodes produced as a proof of concept or pilot....
Expand commentHi, I'm looking for an investor to attach to my project.
It's a animated series called '2 yoots minus loot'
Genre is Adventure, comedy, scifi. I have 6 episodes produced as a proof of concept or pilot.
Please take a look
https://www.instagram.com/tv/CFpii3FBJHA/?igshid=anuvjp3x8fv8
Hey Nicholas, I have a cash cow genre film that is market & production ready utilizing my 25 years of experience as a producer, executive producer, financier, line producer, and DGA UPM (including num...
Expand commentHey Nicholas, I have a cash cow genre film that is market & production ready utilizing my 25 years of experience as a producer, executive producer, financier, line producer, and DGA UPM (including numerous British Films.) You can contact me here or via my contact page. My Producer Credits can be found at FilmBudget.com/about Thanks for posting!
Check out my Kickstarter it’s expired, but shooting this thing soon and need to pay for day rates of a professional Sony DP. I paused production it was supposed to be starting on 03-20-2021. Slight sy...
Expand commentCheck out my Kickstarter it’s expired, but shooting this thing soon and need to pay for day rates of a professional Sony DP. I paused production it was supposed to be starting on 03-20-2021. Slight symptoms awaiting my covid test. When I’m clear we can get a majority of the film done the smart way. It’s a good deal I’m getting but still kinda outta my league. I through the woodwork almost had the Jabbawockeez attached and ready to provide $100,000. The show still goes on with out the equity. I would love to tell you more. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/hereiamimjean-frank/i-do-not-do-drugs
Hey, my Stage32 Animators!
I'd love to know your thoughts - there's been lots of talk about changing projects currently in development from live-action to animation. One way to test this out is to make a trailer, pitch video, or other pre-visualization as animated.
What low-cost (but high impact) form...
Expand postHey, my Stage32 Animators!
I'd love to know your thoughts - there's been lots of talk about changing projects currently in development from live-action to animation. One way to test this out is to make a trailer, pitch video, or other pre-visualization as animated.
What low-cost (but high impact) form of animation would you suggest for these filmmakers?
Comment below and tag a friend or five!
If you have a good script the animation doesn't matter (imo)
Animation is a very loose term. I agree that the work from the Nine Old Men could never be matched in this day and age. I still look at Fantasia to be the greatest examples of American Animation. But...
Expand commentAnimation is a very loose term. I agree that the work from the Nine Old Men could never be matched in this day and age. I still look at Fantasia to be the greatest examples of American Animation. But it’s not dictated towards just one source of creation. So many different techniques have been used- hand drawn, rotoscope, retroscope, claymation, CGI, stop motion, xerox, flash. They can all be given unbelievable presentations and look terrible. Japan still draws by hand, and scans the copies to put together the animation. South Park first started with cut outs that had to be changed with each frame. The use of computers is just a new tool for the trade.
My guess is a couple paintings of set or world, lead character designs, and an animation test to show the style. 2D is cheaper because you don’t need to build and rig the character. But if it’s a 3D project I would think a 3D test would be helpful in a pitch.
We finished a 4 minute 3D proof of concept along with the the written stories for the first 5 episodes and signed the writer, screenwriter, (both with major credits), and an the animation studio that has 2 Emmys. We budgeted for introduction of the new rebuild on the characters and a sizzle reel......
Expand postWe finished a 4 minute 3D proof of concept along with the the written stories for the first 5 episodes and signed the writer, screenwriter, (both with major credits), and an the animation studio that has 2 Emmys. We budgeted for introduction of the new rebuild on the characters and a sizzle reel... which the production studio felt sufficient to get us a distribution agreement.... Sounds good right?
Well on a crazy impulse, I sent a one page overview of the project to, arguably, the world's most accomplished producer of animation... when a member of STAGE32, strongly suggested that... "anyone doing animation should study and follow him"... Sent on Thursday and answered on Friday with the request for a one hour Skype on Monday.
The producer has agreed to sign on for two years as executive producer of Boo's PaperWorld(c) and laid out what we need to have finished before he takes it to distribution. So our initial budget has grown to one million five hundred thousand dollars. Based on the strength of the story and the talent involved, we were in final talks with a two person investment company before one of the two got a severe case of the virus and was hospitalized...
So here I sit with everything in place that I only imagined might happen, with my pant pockets looking like rabbit ears... any ideas?
PS: We would never have this producer, if it weren't for the valuable insights shared on STAGE32.
Has the infected investment partner said they are pulling out all together? Maybe this is a just a case of wait for your champion to come back. Trust me, replacing a worker is easier than replacing an ally. If they believe in you and the project, then wait for your champion!
Thanks for the advise.... we have a meeting Monday with our banker to look at all avenues. I will let you know how it is proceeding. The good news, for the time being is... our Executive Producer beli...
Expand commentThanks for the advise.... we have a meeting Monday with our banker to look at all avenues. I will let you know how it is proceeding. The good news, for the time being is... our Executive Producer believes in the project to the point I got a wonderful email saying that He feels we will achieve funding this year... production is set to start in March so I made need a "reel" angel!
We are looking for any number of seasoned and fledgling indie film producers to share the challenges they face getting project financing.
What are the biggest pain-points?
This makes up an important part of our ongoing accuratius project "Blockchain, open sourcing the business of entertainment."
We...
Expand postWe are looking for any number of seasoned and fledgling indie film producers to share the challenges they face getting project financing.
What are the biggest pain-points?
This makes up an important part of our ongoing accuratius project "Blockchain, open sourcing the business of entertainment."
We are looking to have discussions.
Thank you all.
#filmmakers #filmindustry #filmdirector #independentfilm
Brett Russell Hi, I have been preoccupied with the Premiere of Sin 13 and the launch of Facet.TV, so that's the reason in delay for my launch. First, block chain technology is used to secure a transac...
Expand commentBrett Russell Hi, I have been preoccupied with the Premiere of Sin 13 and the launch of Facet.TV, so that's the reason in delay for my launch. First, block chain technology is used to secure a transaction. Transactional security is not an issue in film finance. Never has been, never will be. So the key strength of blockchain is not applicable to film finance. To my mind, the only possible application is, as you allude to, the possibility of raising money through a wide net where people buy cryptocoins instead of stock certificates. That is, essentially a crowd-funding solution with all the inherent challenges of crowd-funding PLUS the challenges of getting people to accept a crypto-coin as a legitimate vehicle and how to exchange money for that, etc. Not to mention the question of whether or not there is any public pool of investors just waiting to invest in film. Seems there never has been. Crypto-technology doesn't solve that fundamental issue and may even make it harder since public perception of crypto is not flattering. Every so often, since the beginning of bitcoin, someone has decided this was a great solution, and tried to use it, and never, to my knowledge, succeeded. As far as a "tokenized asset" being "legal" - as a lawyer I will tell you flat that my opinion is the nature of a tokenized asset is a security. Period. So creating a funding scheme using a crypto token is at best skirting securities laws, and then only if you have gone through extensive legal maneuvers to take those transactions outside the jurisdiction of the SEC. Those maneuvers in themselves should raise red flags for investors. Now the SEC has recently said that ETH tokens specifically are not "securities" in and of themselves, but that really will depend on the nature of the transaction, and certainly does NOT apply to other tokens. In my professional opinion, the SEC is just plain WRONG on their recent pronouncement, and will likely reverse itself when it considers a real situation where people are raising money for a venture like this. Now having said all that, can you lay out any actual advantage to investing through a token rather than traditional stock purchases, etc.?
Hi Shadow Dragu-Mihai, Esq., Ipg getting you a response to this next week. Very pleased to engage you. Have a good weekend.
Hi Shadow Dragu-Mihai, Esq., Ipg ,
I appreciate you taking time to respond, thanks very much. I respect your view.
This kind of feedback is valuable in that it provides a snapshot of how some establis...
Expand commentHi Shadow Dragu-Mihai, Esq., Ipg ,
I appreciate you taking time to respond, thanks very much. I respect your view.
This kind of feedback is valuable in that it provides a snapshot of how some established entertainment industry participants may view this emerging and disruptive technology.
Let me be clear, any funding or crypto payment mechanisms we propose, develop or implement will not violate any law, securities or otherwise. Nor will we put any participant at risk and will be transparent. Compliance is a priority for all legitimate projects in this space and ours will be no exception. Anyone contemplating anything related to investments or the use of alternate currencies definitely needs competent legal support.
Funding pain-points are proving to be good conversation starters on Stage32 and Im pleased you have joined that conversation.
We enter the WEB3 era - decentralized applications, users control their identity and programmable money is native and flows across borders effortlessly and inexpensively.
Shadow Dragu-Mihai, Esq., Ipg wrote,
"First, block chain technology is used to secure a transaction. Transactional security is not an issue in film finance. Never has been, never will be. So the key strength of blockchain is not applicable to film finance."
Response:
Yes, blockchain does secure transactions. If Im understanding your point here you are saying transactional security is not an issue. But we see it differently. The types of transactions we refer to are many and range from blockchain based automated payments / residuals to smart-contracts that are written to commit screenplays or assign intellectual property to filmmakers/producers. These transactions, and the many more that arise during the development, financing, production and distribution of any film project, are executed, recorded and secured by blockchain. The entertainment industry is built on transactions. Contracts, agreements, assignments, licensing, releases, trademarks, copyrights, are a few of the "transactions" that will be recorded and managed on a private blockchain made available to a select few. Specific to film finance, and aside from our plan to introduce tokenization as a form of funding and payments, a blockchain based chain-of-title is one example of how blockchain can establish the veracity of proprietary rights which is crucial to film finance.
With respect to our ideas around tokenization.
Shadow Dragu-Mihai wrote,
"That is, essentially a crowd-funding solution with all the inherent challenges of crowd-funding PLUS the challenges of getting people to accept a crypto-coin as a legitimate vehicle and how to exchange money for that, etc. Not to mention the question of whether or not there is any public pool of investors just waiting to invest in film. Seems there never has been. Crypto-technology doesn't solve that fundamental issue and may even make it harder since public perception of crypto is not flattering."
Response:
You are correct that there are elements of crowdfunding in tokenization. But, among the many benefits of tokenization, we see it as a way to attract a new pool of investors. One example is token divisibility means unaccredited investors can purchase smaller percentages of the asset. I will expand on this topic in a future post and it will be clear in visuals we are preparing for our website. It seems to me your view of crypto is not positive and that may spill over to the players in the industry and I can understand why if you have not been keeping pace with industry developments. We are well past the ICO scams of 2017 and many of the popular cryptocurrencies (there are now almost 6,000 different listed coins and more unlisted) operate in clear view of regulators and some are underpinning financial instruments on Wall St. and other financial centres. One recent development (July 2020) is that The Office of the Comptroller of the Currency (OCC), which is an independent bureau within the United States Department of the Treasury, now allows USA banks to be crypto custodians. Meaning they can hold bitcoin and other crypto for clients. Public perception of crypto has vastly improved and regular media coverage by financial reporters continues to contribute to positivity in the space. It's not my role to convert you or others who feel the space is a scam or who anticipate bitcoin or ethereum will fail. They wont, and the SEC would be remiss to change their view of ethereum.
Shadow Dragu-Mihai wrote,
" Every so often, since the beginning of bitcoin, someone has decided this was a great solution, and tried to use it, and never, to my knowledge, succeeded."
Response:
Somebody said this.... “Failure should be our teacher, not our undertaker. Failure is delay, not defeat..."
First, again to be clear, our project is not based on bitcoin - a public crypto and public blockchain - which happens to be a very different technology than the permissioned/private blockchain we are building alongside an public ethereum ERC20 based token.
Shadow Dragu-Mihai wrote,
" As far as a "tokenized asset" being "legal" - as a lawyer I will tell you flat that my opinion is the nature of a tokenized asset is a security. Period. So creating a funding scheme using a crypto token is at best skirting securities laws, and then only if you have gone through extensive legal maneuvers to take those transactions outside the jurisdiction of the SEC. Those maneuvers in themselves should raise red flags for investors."
Response:
Im sorry if we were not clear in the original post. There was never any mention of taking any sort of "legal maneuver" to skirt security laws. In fact, in the US there are legal ways to create "funding scheme" that would fit well within the entertainment industry. And, depending on the type of token used and the jurisdiction (we are global), there are a number of avenues available. One example of a completely legal and SEC compliant token is a the security token and STO's (Security Token Offerings). In the USA under a two tiered Regulation A+ (REG A+) up to $20M can be raised from nonaccredited investors in the Tier-1 and reporting requirements are light. The second Tier-2 is $50M but reporting is strict and it's accredited and nonaccredited investors.
Although this funding/seeding component is important, I dont want to lose sight of the overall benefits of our blockchain project.
Here's a very high level overview of our project ecosystem, for this purpose we'll call a blockchain for a film production a "Circle". We are still developing this so dont get tripped up in the conceptualization.
Each "Circle" is a "permissioned blockchain", that would be a the tech layer - ecosystem - on top of a new LLC for each production. This private Circle, would be commissioned by the founders/producers and they would select and invite all the necessary "participants". The participants would include every person and organization that touches the production. They include the producers, actors, extras, writers, directors, assistants, camera operators, hairdressers, makeup, set constructors, electricians, lawyers, law firms, accounting, auditors, investors, bankers, regulators, union reps, and so on.
The Circle blockchain could be redeployed for subsequent film productions by the same producer. In simple terms it could be overlayed onto a new LLC with some of the same participants - ie. lawyers, accountants, writers, or all of the same participants, or all new participants. This results in a streamlined and cost-effective roll-out with certain costs eliminated as each new production is developed.
The founders/producers of each production would use a token within the Circle to pay each participant. Each participant could have their own unique token or accept any token. Tokens can stay inside the ecosystem or offramped to a AML/KYC'd exchange for local FIAT / USD or used to exchange for a USD denominated stablecoin. Other cryptocurrencies could be swapped out on DEX's (decentralized exchanges) for other tokens. Other tokens could also be another participants tokens.
Here are some benefits to using blockchain in the entertainment industry
- Business Continuity
As a production moves through its life-cycle, the responsibility to maintain obligations, record keeping, distribution of revenues and payments and other commitments will remain for years. The transparent and trustless nature of blockchain will provide a solid foundation for any person or organization tasked with overseeing business continuity.
- Payments / Residuals
Blockchain can facilitate auto-payments using smart contracts. Residual payments are costly to administer and cryptocurrency can be used to execute payments as small as pennies. Oracles will be used to trigger payments based on smart contracts.
- Micro Investments and Profit Sharing
Cryptocurrency has democratized finance. It's now possible for any person, anywhere, to invest as little as a dollar. Imagine a camera operator or set builder who opts to reinvest a portion of their income in exchange for a small cut of the profits. Imagine if they did it on every production they worked on.
-Contracts
Agreements, contracts, assignments of IP, etc will all fit nicely into a chain-of-title and will reduce risk and insurance overhead .
- Networking
Each of the participants in a Circle can develop a trusted relationship with other participants. For example, a production accountant has the option of making themselves known (privacy release) to any other participant - say a business manager - who may want to use their accounting services on another production. Because identity verification is part of the Circle implementation, that accounting person or firm can reuse that identity generated to join other Circles.
Thanks again for your interest and please stay tuned as we continue to develop this sizable project.
Let me know if you have any questions Ill help out as best I can.
Brett
Hi, I am trying to find out what the 5 or 6 (or maybe 7 or 8) milestones are that need to be reached in order to go from feature animation "verbal concept" all the way to getting a feature animation produced and shown on the big screen. Many thanks in advance for your assistance in helping me understand this process. Craig
Hey Craig, it's easier than you think, I've made 4 feature films, I check your messages.
Hey, Michael Johnson! Wow, congrats on your feature films, that's awesome! Would you concur with Bob Harper 's first comment which included an animation production workflow? Anything you would add or...
Expand commentHey, Michael Johnson! Wow, congrats on your feature films, that's awesome! Would you concur with Bob Harper 's first comment which included an animation production workflow? Anything you would add or elaborate on?
Michael, I just checked out your animation. I'm impressed with the facial expressions. Well done.
Hi all, first post (yay!)... super glad to be here and hopefully in the right place. I’ve written an animated feature called “Instrumental” about what happens when the only ones that can save the music are the instruments themselves and am what I believe at the point to work with an animation studio...
Expand postHi all, first post (yay!)... super glad to be here and hopefully in the right place. I’ve written an animated feature called “Instrumental” about what happens when the only ones that can save the music are the instruments themselves and am what I believe at the point to work with an animation studio but would like to know if a trailer or a short makes sense to build a following and help market to potential investors and producers and/or distributors. I have a character teaser at my site written1productions.com. Welcome any and all thoughts on how to proceed. Also is there a good list out there for considerations when looking for animation studios? Thank you!
I can only tell you what I did and I am not unlike you. First let me tell you what our writer... 25 novels, book for major movie screenplay, lifetime movie,... etc told me before she agreed to be our...
Expand commentI can only tell you what I did and I am not unlike you. First let me tell you what our writer... 25 novels, book for major movie screenplay, lifetime movie,... etc told me before she agreed to be our writer... "no movie first... very costly and small market with a small chance for success... but if you make it a series, there is a growing and hungry market... Then I'm in"!. To get her interest I wrote and scripted 4 minutes of 3D animation. I can refer you to the animator that produced the 4 minutes for us. She is reasonable and great to work with. The business will tell you to go the normal route... story boards etc... but you as I was are not a person that is on anyone's speed dial... show do the best you can to showcase your story(I think it is a good story).
Hey, TC Bolden! I just moved to LA from the DC area! You seem familiar - have you ever gone to any Women in Film events?
One way to find good animation studios is to reach out to the studios who have m...
Expand commentHey, TC Bolden! I just moved to LA from the DC area! You seem familiar - have you ever gone to any Women in Film events?
One way to find good animation studios is to reach out to the studios who have made things that are comparable to what you're making. If you sign up for IMDbPro, you can get their contact info and submit an inquiry.
Actually, the person to ask would be Frank Gladstone from ASIFA-Hollywood, and he's accepting questions for a VLOG he'll be doing for Stage32! Taylor posted about it asking for questions, if you scroll through Animation, you'll find it.
Thanks all for the advice and the concept love. I appreciate it! Karen "Kay" Ross yep definitely have been to some WIFV events. Crazy in a universe so big...That’s so awesome that you made the move! I...
Expand commentThanks all for the advice and the concept love. I appreciate it! Karen "Kay" Ross yep definitely have been to some WIFV events. Crazy in a universe so big...That’s so awesome that you made the move! I’m going to ask that question now!
Welcome! Our church and one of our feature characters(Justin Wren) in our 3D animation, Boo's PaperWorld, spend time in Uganda and the Congo drilling for fresh water and helping with farming. I am the founder of Avoke Productions, formed around the story of a seven year old with Down Syndrome who, w...
Expand postWelcome! Our church and one of our feature characters(Justin Wren) in our 3D animation, Boo's PaperWorld, spend time in Uganda and the Congo drilling for fresh water and helping with farming. I am the founder of Avoke Productions, formed around the story of a seven year old with Down Syndrome who, when her heart hurts her do to wrong doing in the world around her, can bring any type of paper to life.to help her right the wrongs. Justin Wren the MMA fighter travels the world working with her to right the wrongs of the world.(Justin actually bought the freedom of the Mbuti Pygmies) We are a mix of a real story and a magical imaginary one. Part of any profits our series makes will be used for Justin's efforts in Africa. We are moving toward global distribution... is that something you could help with? Peace, Steve ...steve_vandrilla@hotmail.com
Anyone have any good tips on how to run a successful crowdfunding campaign? I've tried a number of avenues including posting to Facebook, Twitter and the like and have not had any success. Any help would be appreciated.
Jacob Siciliano You want to "start" the campaign before your official launch. That means build an online base, a presence, a following, an e-mail list, your brand, all before you launch. The word for...
Expand commentJacob Siciliano You want to "start" the campaign before your official launch. That means build an online base, a presence, a following, an e-mail list, your brand, all before you launch. The word for that is called crowd-sourcing. Richard "RB" Botto has a very good book on how to successfully do that called Crowdsourcing for Filmmakers (American Film Market Presents) In addition to crowdsourcing, part of your advertising and press - you can pay someone to make a press kit for you or use a service. There's press kit templates all over the internet for free if you want to write it yourself. There are also services to send out your press kit to publications. For the crowdfunding portion, your momentum is important and will be directly affected by how well you crowdsourced.. The beginning and last days will have the most traffic. You want all of your friends and family to pledge first to start you off. Get them sharing your stuff at your launch. They are the most accessible to you and can kick-start your campaign's momentum.. People like to contribute to something already in motion, something that "looks" like it will achieve it's goal. It will definitely seem that way if there's already pledges by the time a stranger comes along. The space between the beginning and end of the campaign is crucial. It's extremely likely to slow up but you have to work through it like it's just another day. It's a marathon. All the way to sending out rewards to your contributors. Keep everyone updated. Communicate with your contributors, they will appreciate it and it could bring in more people. You'll want a campaign video 3-5 minutes long (less is more) that hooks the viewer. It helps if the style of the video is thematically relevant to your project. Be open, have good energy and explain clearly what the project is, what you're asking for and why. Otherwise you'll need a press kit and a good description of your project and why you're doing it. The more transparent and authentic the campaign and the information feels, the better. When calculating your goal take into account the fees that will be taken out (they vary per fundraising platform). For pricing, around $25 is the most popular with contributors (to my knowledge). For actual rewards, look at campaigns similar to your's for reference. Offer Unique experiences and/or wearable items specific to the project. Those will win and stand out. A good book on crowdfunding is
Crowdfunding for Filmmakers: The Way to a Successful Film Campaign- 2nd Edition by John T Trigonis,. I gave you some things here but everything you'd need is in those two books honestly. EVERYTHING.
First thing..... order & read/listen to RB’s book on Crowdsourcing before you do anything! I’ve been a part of 2 very successful crowdfunded award winning films & have consulted on many others! RB hit...
Expand commentFirst thing..... order & read/listen to RB’s book on Crowdsourcing before you do anything! I’ve been a part of 2 very successful crowdfunded award winning films & have consulted on many others! RB hits all the things you want & need to know about crowdfunding & crowdsourcing (which actually comes first)! All the best!
Becca, I am crowd sourcing Through an organization based in the UK with a presence in 163 countries... I would like to email back and forth through our private emails if you are open to it relative to...
Expand commentBecca, I am crowd sourcing Through an organization based in the UK with a presence in 163 countries... I would like to email back and forth through our private emails if you are open to it relative to the 3D animated series we are producing. Avoke Productions... steve_vandrilla@hotmail.com Thanks
Hey, Stage32 Animators!
Richard "RB" Botto got a FANTASTIC question about what we can do to help other aspects of filmmaking other than writing (and by virtue of that, producing). So, let's start a little virtual Town Hall Q&A:
- What do you need help with? What is your immediate goal? What are yo...
Expand postHey, Stage32 Animators!
Richard "RB" Botto got a FANTASTIC question about what we can do to help other aspects of filmmaking other than writing (and by virtue of that, producing). So, let's start a little virtual Town Hall Q&A:
- What do you need help with? What is your immediate goal? What are your long-term goals?
- What have you experienced in the past that has worked? What pitfalls would you like to avoid?
- What suggestions do you have that would allow us to come together and help each other?
Respond below and then share this discussion with three members you'd like to weigh in and participate!
I have a few ideas - READ MINE AND SHARE YOUR OWN BELOW!
So, for example, what if we hosted a kind of "Check It Before You Wreck It" Day where people could submit a 5-minute clip of something they are working on and get feedback from the community?
Yeah...
Welcome aboard... Great that you do not think in a straight line(even though it is in your title).
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Congratulations Steven Vandrilla! Love the commitment. Like I always tell other creatives, this is a business of months and years, not days and weeks. I am the Director of Script Services for Stage 32...
Expand commentCongratulations Steven Vandrilla! Love the commitment. Like I always tell other creatives, this is a business of months and years, not days and weeks. I am the Director of Script Services for Stage 32. You're always welcome to reach out to me at j.mirch@stage32.com to let me know where you're at in the process.
Thanks Jason.
You should know that I reached out to Max Howard as a result of the comments one of the members of STAGE 32 made encouraging anyone involved in an animation effort, to seek out anything...
Expand commentThanks Jason.
You should know that I reached out to Max Howard as a result of the comments one of the members of STAGE 32 made encouraging anyone involved in an animation effort, to seek out anything Max has ever said or written on the topic. Without my membership in STAGE 32... no Max and a project that would still be trying to find its way.