Screenwriting : Anyone interested in getting their script read? by Craig D Griffiths

I'd be interested.. but need more detail

Love the idea and would be interested as well... but we need rules of course and I would make distinctions in genres and between shorts and features.

Sounds like an interesting idea but I feel like a lot of writers might worry about there work being stolen from other users.

I think that's a great thing you're trying to do.

They have that on Zoetrope. The thing is, what I believe you should stipulate, you must be a screenwriter and have a script written and proof of one. You need to have some kind of track record. Although the readers had good points, I took what I needed and didn't apply what I felt did not pertain. I had to report a reader he was cruel, less than professional and was not a screenwriter. Therefore, he did not have a clear idea as to how a screenplay is written. It was a horrible experience. So even tho I think it's a good idea, you don't want someone reading your script and given you pointers when they are new to the industry and do not have a clue. Maybe simple pointers like plot, character etc. I would do it, it's fun and a generous way to help others out - we're all in this together so any little bit helps. That just sounded contradictory, but I think you get my point - no novelist readers. Everyone before going in must sign a non-disclosure agreement.

Yeah, same thing on Amazon where you submit your screenplays and others can read them and give feed back. Really a waste of time, when you read some of the trash out there, then expect the person who hasn't a clue to give you any info back. There are people "here" who can do just what you're are asking, so why start another site?

That's true Kent - I forgot about that - mea culpa. Kent's right Craig, there are people out there who are filled with ego and will slam you and then the writer feels they are worthless and gives up, all because of someone who knows nothing and their ego - I'm sure anyone here if asked, as I know among my circle of writers, are very happy and accommodating, depending on their schedules - to give positive feedback. Even on this site just beware, so many people want something for nothing and are still clueless.

Yes, that's true. I experienced what Jane describes and even here some people who never sold or produced anything are the first who comment everything and diss. Don't want to offend anybody, don't get me wrong, but it happens. We all discuss then and stage32 tries to calm down hot discussions - but nobody knows and cares what it does to the one who gets such comments/critics.

Though I'm up to my eyeballs with FIFO productions, I still squirrel away time here and there to work on my screenplays, which leads me to throw this idea out to you S32 faithful: Instead of starting with feature-length scripts, how about we first swap synopses, then 10-15 pages (wherever a logical break occurs) or our short film scripts, along with a short resume of scripts we've written, so we get an idea of the other writer's experience. That way, if I see that Wanda is 95% Horror and Sci-fi, and I write Rom-coms, we both can make an informed decision whether to exchange scripts, or politely decline the request on "grounds of incompatibility", much like my first two marriages, which fell under the Horror/Thriller genre.

I'm leery of other people's feedback. I want to read their script before taking their critical eye seriously. All of that said, if there was a small, tight group that had some parameters, I'd be interested in contributing.

Peer review is something that happens readily here on Stage 32 -- reviewing loglines, synopsis, shorts, features. It's not as "formal" or perhaps as "upfront" as on other sites. We're more organic in that an exchange may occur through networking, by request, or interest by observing/contributing within a forum. Personally, I prefer to seek peer review from those whom I've gotten to know and can be objective not subjective, imposing their approach on my writing; "If I was writing this, this is what I would do." Anyway, the pros and cons of peer review are another topic entirely. :) However, I do know some writers groups have formed all on their own through networking or writers have started groups in their local areas through Meetups. :)

Thank you everyone for the feedback. I will give planning it a go. A special thanks to the people that raise concerns. Identifying problems is 80% of the battle. If you have anything to add please keep commenting. I will visit the suggested sites. I don't want to reinvent the wheel. Thanks again.

I agree with Beth. For me, it's very difficult to critique someone else's work, outside of the basics. I gotta say I had luck from two Stagers, who've, who helped me greatly with a screenplay, unsolicited by the way. It's great when one finds that one has alot in common with another writers style of writing and it's also rare, but it can happen.

I realize I'm biased, but I still never understand why anyone cares what another new, amateur writer living across the world thinks of their script. why is that an opinion you would seek out or use to examine your script? I don't get it. You should only be looking for feedback from those with MORE professional experience than you have.

Danny, I think of the film going public as the eventual consumers of my product. I know it will be morphed incredibly by the production process. The best feedback I received on a story came from people that had never written a word. They said they loved it once they got to the valley. Made me realise I was starting my story too early. It spun my thinking on its head. Plus I would rather let my peers point out glowing oversights than people I am trying to impress. This may not be for everyone, but it may also be a bump in the right direction for others. If we cannot help each other who can we help.

Danny, while I totally agree that one is better served seeking a review from a person with more professional experience, your assumption is rather generalized -- not all "peer" reviewers are new or amateur writers; at least here on Stage 32. :) I have received reviews from those with far more experience than I and they were truly helpful -- some live across the pond. ;) Frankly, some of us are operating on a tight budget and often have to find other means of feedback. Creatives tend to be generous and enjoy sharing knowledge. You gotta reach out to those "peers" who perhaps are farther along in their career and are willing to reach back and give a novice writer a hand. Plus, sometimes you're just curious to know what a particular person may think of your work. A writer needs to learn how to discern good feedback from bad feedback -- is this truly helpful to me? One must learn how to gauge comments. :)

That's it in a nutshell Beth!

To add... Just because a writer is new or considered an amateur by industry standards doesn't necessarily mean that they don't possess the "goods." There's some brilliant writers here! Really, it's just a matter of time... :)

@Jane Therese. I'd like to address the particular issue you raised about trolls making people feel bad about their work. This does worry me and I think I have a solution. The person receiving the feedback gets to leave a comment on the reviewer. A bit like ebay feedback. So if I give notes on six features and five people say I was "hard but reasonable" and one person says "I am a fool and missed the point of the story" people can gauge what I am like. I only had this idea this morning. I was inspired by the Kidney Donation system. If I need a kidney I need to find some that is willing to donate a kidney. I think if a person was intentionally mean they would eventually become redundant and no one would bother reading their reviews. The comments left by people would stand as a sign post to others and I would just remove them (I will have god like powers to zap creeps that attack people we need to support). Even if you are new to the craft reading will help. I was once told the very best way to consolidate your learning and to show you what you need to learn is to try and teach someone else. I think reviewer other peoples work will make me a better writer and, I hope, help other people. It is not going to cost anyone anything (except me - lol).

I would generally agree with "new writers" being able to maybe have great insights on your screenplay (notes, observations, etc.) BUT, I'm most definitely going to personally move towards a professional who not only can give objective feedback on your screenplay, but can catch a host of things you as the writer either don't immediately see, miss, or can guide you towards producing your best work. I'm in a writers group and recently gave a pilot in progress to one of the members to read for feedback. I got it back and he literally wrote huge red X's through my entire pilot, with just "This sucks" for feedback. I asked him directly what did he like or not like about it..then I found out, oh he isn't a fan of dramas, he doesn't think a character that's a black gay man could carry a TV show, he didn't care about the subject matter, etc. that's fine. That's his opinion. Unfortunately, that's not really helpful to me as a writer in making my work better or at least making my next draft stronger. Oddly enough, three other people in the group, were positive and were way more constructive... All that to say...you may be able to find objective and constructive feedback from a newbie, but you can also find that from a professional consultant like Danny etc. It really comes down to what you want and what you are looking for.... :)

Hey Craig thanks - yeah he was brutal, BUT he did have good pointers, BUT he also had comments that should not have ocurred - all in all, when I put myself in those kinds of situations - a learning experience - I do ask myself, 'what can I learn from this person's input and is it a valid comment?' if the answer is yes, I use it, if it's no I move on. My point being is, don't be rude or condescending or vulgar. Don't need to be spinning my wheels from someone who is not a screenwriter - And I agree about reading other's work, it makes one a better writer -

Lots of good comments on here. Worst case scenario a new writer is probably more in touch with audience perspective and can see more from one looking from the outside in. This reader group is a great idea simply because we all need to learn to critique as well as recieve critique. Everyone is intelligent enough ro interpret criques and if they don't understand ask questions. The greatest roadblock is time consumption of both the reader and the writer but for those starting out it is a necessity. It's also a neccessity for those working especially in television but working writers I think know where to focus and dedicate time better. I think I better know how to look from the outside in as well as the perspective of being in the trenches with anything I do or critique but it does take years of dedication and an immense amount of time. It should not be a flippant endeavor for anyone to get into but know what you're getting in to and there is no room for quitters. I'm not going to publicly blast out guideline forms that script consultants don't want you to know but there are tons of really good templates out there for critiquing. Perhaps someone from the reader group should create a template or several templates and its also wise to follow and pay attention to those that have developed templates that producer's/directors and studio's use even if it is an assistant that developed it for the company. From my limited experience in doing this I find that certain companies design their templates based on company brand as well. There are a few out there companies borrow from each other too. A qualified read is still important and you will have to invest somewhere eventually but starting out to date these are some processes I have learned. Be honest about your qualifications as a reader remaining transparent too because as much deceit that goes on there is also a lot of genuineness for writers wanting to help each other too. When I first started bad scripts such as some on simply scripts started to look like a joke at times and were easy to tear apart. I tried a few on trigger street too then I started trying to critique some stuff written well and that is where I'm at now. It's much harder to critique something written well than something mediocre or really bad. Well that's my two cents and because I realistically and honestly know how much time dedication and consumption it takes this is not something I would be interested in at this time but I really hope all writers starting out consider this readers group. You got to pay your dues, so to speak, with time dedication and consumption most certainly being one of them. Consultants have their place too because even with templates it still takes the fine art of pinpoint accuracy to get true help to get your endeavor close to production or maybe even told the harsh news of scrapping it. Everyone has to pay their dues before they should even consider a good consultant it will save you money and probably a lot of head shaking from script consultants although some out there could care less as their time is simply money relative to any work but time for a writer is much different. Good luck and peace out everyone back to work for me.

Its a commendable point getting script read and commented for free. But afterall its the optioning Producer/Studio whose opinion counts in furthering the developement slate.

Shiuli, that's correct, are you sure you want these people to be the first people to read your work? You may have an army of trusted advised, but others don't.

Craig posted a good topic, and for anyone who had questions before hopefully got some answers, pros and cons. This is how many get educated, myself included, from past good and bad experiences others have had expressed here.

@Fiona - so afterwards is before... neither nobody knows anything before nor afterwards... ehhhh - this gets me to the idea to leave everything at it is, because it seems very complicated.

@Craig: I think your idea is well intended and I can see you already had some takers. So your thread is a success. @Bix: In reading your observation, I’m reminded of one of my favorite exchanges of dialogue in Woody Allen’s “Midnight in Paris”. It’s where main character Gil asks Ernest Hemingway to read his novel. Gil: Would you do me the biggest favor in the world – I can’t even ask. Hemingway: What? Gil: Would you read it? Hemingway: Your novel? Gil: It’s only about four hundred pages – If you would just give me your opinion. Hemingway: My opinion is I hate it. Gil: you do? Hemingway: If it’s bad I’ll hate because I hate bad writing and if it’s good I’ll be envious and hate it all the more. You don’t want the opinion of another writer. Gil: But there’s no one I really trust to evaluate it. Hemingway: Writers are competitive. Gil: I could never compete with you. In general, I tend to agree with Miss Beth. I have exchanged work with very few folks here, with the exception of some that I got to know via threads and correspondence. A few years back, I wholeheartedly explored Trigger Street Labs and was really on board with their ideology. However, I had to read scripts at a high ratio to get feedback on one of my scripts. Additionally, when I read someone’s screenplay, I took care to write detailed notes and then provide the other writer with constructive feedback. And, I always led off with something positive. In very few cases, did I feel properly reciprocated by the reviews provided to me. In some cases, they were appallingly Neanderthal. Fortunately, I met a man at Trigger Street who read my Angela Davis script. He has gone on to be a good friend and confidant. By the way, he lives across the pond. But my worst experience was with a guy in California that asked me exchange scripts and then said the nastiest things anyone has ever said about my work. About six months later, the script he thought was a flaming piece of shit, placed well at Screencraft and two other competitions. Many times at S32, I’ve reached out to writers looking for feedback and asked nothing in return. For that, I’m not expecting the Mother Teresa award. Nevertheless, I firmly believe there is a pay it forward, karmic justice in helping other creatives in a positive way. Finally, here’s an illustration of how the opinions of other writers vary. These are excerpts from the notes I received from the Blue Cat Screenplay contest for my 2013 entry. Reader number one about my ending: “The twist with Perry being a killer is too force-fed, especially without him being the strangler. It's pretty clear that Perry is a misdirect. And then the killer comes back at the end? People want closure.” Reader number two about my ending: “The final reveal that Perry was not the killer, and that he’s still on the loose, was great. Particularly because the ending might read as too easy to achieve for the characters, it’s a nice touch that it’s merely an end to Rachel’s part of the story, and not the killer’s.” Remember: One man's turd is another man's treasure. And you may quote me on that.

This sounds really awesome!

I'm using Fiona's words, but I don't mean to single her out. "What's important is to identify peers with the talent and experience to give you worthwhile feedback." How do you writers accomplish that efficiently, without wasting your own time or anyone else's time? I'm not judging; I'm just asking. How do you identity valuable peers for peer review, and filter out those who are not appropriate for you? Isn't a lot of time and effort devoted to the peer review "weed out" process? Is it worth the time and effort? I'm asking because your "filtering out" process is a very similar "pain point" as the one we producers face. "How do we find the great script that works for us, among 1000s of scripts that don't work for us?" (Obviously, that's where the filtering system of screenplay contests, agents, managers, etc. comes in.) Have you writers found a more efficient way that we producers can apply to our practice? Thanks.

Yes, again, I think however one goes about seeking feedback it's often taking the time and being assertive to suss out the RIGHT people/person for you. Is it serendipitous? Yes, sometimes. But, often it's just networking and getting to know people; know their experience; their expertise. It's doing your due diligence. That's not really "wasting time" by "weeding through" a high number of general peer reviews but rather making a selective choice of those whom you ask for a review. :) ...I don't know if that is comparable to your needs as a producer looking for scripts, Regina. Perhaps that's a completely different set of needs -- trying to find that one good script among thousands of bad ones. Let's say, perhaps, through networking you come across a writer who interests you; you then ask to read that writer's work. Perhaps it's finding a script through the writer verses finding a script through an open submission, as in a screenplay competition. Perhaps it's being more selective on the source and not the material to find that elusive good screenplay. :)

@Emily. Everyone is going to have their own opinions when it comes to your writing. You can take it or leave it. But it's ungracious, and unprofessional to publicly discredit another writer because you didn't like their feedback. Your assessment of the feedback you received is 100% valid to you and you alone. Others will be reluctant to assist you knowing they're going to be publicly slated. Only you are responsible for your feelings. Happy writing.

So sad to read of what happened to Emily Ann Jefferson, that really upset me. Lately there have been a few posts on, about who you should trust especially on Facebook. The notion seems to be yourself (and I believe this always) and of course we do have the addition of 'should I trust myself'? Now this could get technical, but ideally I would say trust yourself. The ammunition and catalogues of movies are phenomenal. Copy and Paste if you like. You see you have to stay firmly true to you, obviously we have to be in the bounds of what a movie is. Everybody's heartbeats will increase on a Roller Coaster. Like I said on a post on Filmmaking - I thought Batman VS Superman was a tragic idea, but after seeing the Comic-Con Trailer...? Mr. SNYDER knew the vision, I still didn't believe it, after Ben Affleck, didn't believe it until SNYDER explained it too him, and he got it. My best suggestion ALWAYS is to write a film you want to see. I think the MARKET serves the market and this is a fantastic idea as long as you don't get pulled and shifted. In other words you should know what you are doing if you are going to be a Screenwriter. People will still have opinions of movies after they are made, what can you do, how might one please all? Some people are just stupid to be frank, this is also why movies have ratings, so it's basically an improbable situation. Professionals themselves are copy and paste 'can you do it a little more like Eddie Murphy'? Chin up Emily, that person actually should be ashamed making you feel ashamed. And if you are not going to give back good feedback then you will know that you will be shown, because that's how life is. Why should you be protected.

Let's not judge. :) For those of us older members, we are well-aware of what transpired between Emily and Alle -- what was said to Emily. Let bygones be bygones. Emily, please don't let one bad experience taint your outlook. Just keep writing. :)

Yes just keep writing! Take the comment, see if it applies, disregard the rest and continue to improve yourself.

Sorry but if anybody deserves to be named and shamed it's Alle Segretti. Emily's experience and outlook is testament to the irreparable damage trolls like that can do to communities. She's one of MANY here who was trolled by her. Professionalism goes both ways, you destroy your own image by proactively hurting others and you deserve the infamy that comes your way.

I, and many others, have no knowledge of what went on between Emily and Ms Segretti. My opinion was based on the facts presented - someone trashing another without any evidence. Thanks to Beth and CJ for confirming unsportsmanlike behaviour took place. In reference to Dan's point, unfortunately, in all aspects of life, there will always be those who feed off on putting others down in order to keep themselves on their self-appointed pedestals.

I thought that what this was :(

You as the writer just have to know which feedback will improve your work, or which feedback will tank it. I think that's a talent all on its own that a writer must develop. We recently had several writers on a thread exchange feedback. It was very helpful.

Do you all know this 'Alle'? Looks as if... I never heard of her and am happy now that she's not in my network and I'm warned not to ask her for any help. Although I must say I never would as I'm kind of like Dan Guardino describes it - I avoid asking anyone for feedback. In cases I'm insecure I ask friends and family to give me feedback, because I think someone who has no idea about the craft of screenwriting speaks like a viewer of the film would. They tell if it is suspenseful, emotional, touches them - or what ever. The rest about the structure and what here and there to add or reduce is what the producer or director will/should tell me. Just my opinion and experience.

There are some really good people out there. Just because they haven't sold anything or are working on their first screenplay doesn't mean they can't be of help. It's a catch22 because you won't know what type of feedback a stranger is capable of until you ask. A safer bet might be to ask for feedback on a short, or a script you're having trouble with, and if you gel, then show them your baby. I've had mean, unhelpful feedback in the past but it taught me to do as much due diligence as possible and go with my gut. Fortunately not everyone on Stage32 is a troll.

@Leona, yes, I tried it as well with a short just to get an idea what and how someone who doesn't know me reacts and I got a mean and unhelpful feedback which didn't even make sense. It was as if the other one just wanted to diss me. Nobody deserves or needs this. Writers are sensitive souls, we open us, our innermost and are the ones who create the story and give it a voice. So, in my experience other screenwriters or writers are no good adviser at all. They are competitors. Hence, someone who only works as a consultant without having anything written can be a better adviser than a great, but frustrated screenwriter with a long list of credits.

@ Owen - I checked her profile and it sounded as if she had some experience and success. Maybe this was a little one-hit wonder - I don't know. I just read it and couldn't see what's wrong about her. So, I thought she might be one of these frustrated people who spreads bad energy and feels better by putting other people down. Don't know - just my thoughts after all I read here. I don't want to judge too harsh as I don't know her at all. :) After I read most comments here I think the tenor is: Craig's idea is nice, but won't work - right? Hence, we better leave it all as it is? =)

I don't seek feedback from writers I am not familiar with, if they happen to be writing in the same genre as I am at the time and we start up a conversation, the exchanges can be helpful and encouraging to us both. I am willing to give feedback on loglines, queries and synopses, but proper script coverage, I would not have the time for or, truthfully, be the one you should be seeking this feedback from at this point. If you're feel you're ready to submit a finished script - I would suggest seeking professional feedback at least once, before doing so... and as for feedback, as a seasoned writer - there are certain aspects of your writing and story structure that you should be confident in knowing passes the litmus test for a professionally written script, without someone's else's opinion. You should differentiate the constructive from the disruptive feedback, thank the reviewer for taking the time to review it, and move on.

Other screenwriters give excellent and constructive feedback. I used to be a moderator on a screenwriting website where we would anonymously exchange reviews on each other's scripts. It was extremely helpful and it made me the screenwriter that I am today. I know that we run into a TON of weirdos online but I would like to assume that most of us on this site have a level head, and wouldn't bash another person's script because we were envious of their talent. Those are my 2 cents. @ Elisabeth - Alle is a character for sure. I hope you get to witness her presence. Stage32 seems to really come alive in negative energy when she's around. It's hysterical... But it's come to the point where most people just simply ignore her now. Most...

Those who feel the need to self inflate their ego like Allie don't last long. The only advice she offered were her own so-calleded experiences. If someone has to talk that much about themself then something is off. I understand self promotion, but if someone had pneumonia, she would say she had double pneumonia and still finished a film while being laid up in bed. After a while she sounds like Charlie Brown's teacher, a bunch of wah wah wah wah wah!

Alle has written some brilliant posts and it's abundantly clear she's an intelligent soul. My counsel to her and others like her would be to dial back the relentless need to prove you're the smartest person in the room. For me, the simple truth is, if you put positive energy into the world, it will come back to you in spades.

What a small world. I've met Alle. I wondered why her photo looked familiar and it's because I've got her business card. About 4/5 years ago had been looking for writers group via meetup.com and one was taking place at the Royal Festival Hall (London). "She" came along and was so full of shit it was hilarious. Could see right through her but the sad thing was most of the others, especially the host, were so desperate for validation they hung on to her every word. What didn't make sense was someone, who claimed to be in the biz, was attending meetup groups (not as an invited speaker). Claimed there was a blacklist among agents of people who had sent in bad scripts. She spent time scaremongering whilst droning on about herself. Never went back to that group.

@Elizabeth. It's a shame you've have such a negative experience/view of feedback from other writers. I can understand not sharing your work if you're pitching for paid jobs. But at the end of the day, we have to do what feels right for us.

About six years ago I paid for professional feedback and was so angry "they didn't get it." A few months ago, re-read the feedback and saw it was spot on. Also re-read the script I sent. What a piece of crap! Was convinced it was the dogs bollocks and desperate for validation. Can see now that I hadn't focused enough on the story. Swore I'd never get paid feedback again and was convinced they were out to rip people off!! ha ha. So glad I gave my ego a good talking to.

Guys, please trust me and others who have been on the site for years. There's a clear consensus among us about Ms. Sergretti. Plus, you must check more than someone's profile to get a better idea of that person. I, for one, do not find "negative" energy funny. It's destructive. There was much fall out from Alle Sergretti. Please just consider yourself warned and proceed with caution. No need to dwell. Let's move on! Thanks. :)

Enough, I think we all get the gist. How about them Yankees?

I have a romantic comedy I would greatly appreciate opinions on and am available to read other's works. I live on disability so these $200-$400 fees are over budget but since my seizures have reached a level of not being able to work I have the extra time as I write my first novel; My Seizure Stew

Craig, I've facilitated the screenwriter's critique group for Inspire Writers for about a year now. I think it is great that you are reaching out in this way. I have benefited from it both in helping my writing and in being able to help others. I would say the keys would be 1) commonality - Inspire requires membership to be able to join a critique group. That ensures that we at least have similar viewpoints and goals. 2) ground rules - always positive, only constructive comments allowed. Everyone must agree to this. I agree that peer review should not be your "final answer." But, it is a great place to start with a first or second draft. I have learned as much about writing by reviewing other people's works as I have in having my work reviewed. Best of luck

My script is the grittiest with going over the top. Plz do yourself myself and your production company. The opportunity for GOLD.Don't just take my word for it take a quick look.

Dru, I noticed you have posted the same comment within several threads -- that is considered spamming and is not tolerated on this site. Please delete your comments or be reported for spamming. Thanks.

@ Beth thanks

Sounds like an awesome. It could either go really well, or fail miserably. Sounds like a proposition worth trying.

There are such communities such as Talentville or Triggerstreet where you get free screenplay feed-back, if you, in turn, review someone else's script...I'm just saying this so you could think differently and do something yet unseen...:) Sorry if I upset you by bringing up these similar sites...PS: If you make that website, could you please let me know so I could check it out? Thank you! And best of luck to you!

waited this long... i guess the site is running now... what is the link add?

Thanks Victor. I couldn't find this type of site. If you search coverage in Google all you get is paid consultants. Nearly all state that they are readers for studios or producers (but can't say who). They also can't write otherwise they would, but they can tell writers what to do to make a million dollar sale. I trust my peers over people that tell me they are great.