Screenwriting : Looking for a book about screenwriting. by Hilary Moyo

Go to Google. Type in "Linda Seger" http://www.amazon.com/Making-Script-Great-Linda-Seger/dp/1935247018

Hi, Hilary you are in the right place to find one!

Someone on here compiled a list... I can't think of her name right now. Scroll down this page and you'll see it, it says best books and blogs for writers or something like that. I think her name is Megan.

Awesome, i will check it out. Thanks Melissa!!

Thanks Linda and D Marcus!!!

Hi Hilary. This isn't a book about actual screenwriting . It is written by legendary screenwriter William Goldman-- Adventures in the Screen Trade. Give it a shot.

The Screenwriters's Bible (Trottier), Your Screenplay Sucks! (Akers), Save The Cat (Snyder)

Tom offers two great suggestions. I'm still on the fence about Save The Cat. I've also enjoyed William C. Martell's Blue Book series. http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-ke...

500 Ways To Beat The Hollywoood Script Reader was recommended to me by an expert and I found it a useful learning tool.

Writing Movies for Fun and Profit isn't a how to book on screenwriting. It's more about the business of Hollywood which is equally important to learning how to write scripts. Now Write! Screenwriting is a compendium of professional screenwriters career advice. And I totally realize I didn't answer your original question. If I had the English version I'd come through on that hook up.

Check out Robert Mckee's Story. Can't go wrong.

I love my Screenwriter's Bible...

I think it really depends on what you're looking for. For example, do you want to write a movie script or a TV script? For TV, I'd definitely recommend Pam Douglas "Writing the TV drama series" (I think that's the title). For TV comedy, "The TV writer's workbook" by Ellen Sandler also looks good (I bought it b/c I thought it was also helpful for writing dramas - not so much, though there are some good tips in there). As an overall guide, I'd also recommend Trottier's "The screenwriter's bible" (you'll have to adjust the structure for TV drama). The lastest edition will come out in early April. The "Now Write" series is also really helpful, especially when you're trying to come up with new ideas.

Hilary wants to find the english version of Linda Seger's book; "Wondering if you could help me find an English version."

Uhm... "Making a good script great" is in English. And it's available on amazon.

I found the following helpful: 1. Screenwriting, The Art, Craft and Business of Film and Television Writing by Richard Walter 2. Writing Great Screenplays for Film and TV by Dona Cooper 3. The Screenwriter's Bible by David Trottier 4. Screenwriting Tricks of the Trade by William Froug 5. Screenwriters on Screenwriting by Joel Engel 6. Writing Screenplays That Sell by Michael Hauge

DO NOT get "Save the Cat". It is a formulaic way of writing scripts that producers/studios pin-point. I would recommend if you are just beginning to get "Story" by Robert McKee. Then move on to "Screenplay" by Syd Fields and then onto "The Anatomy of Story" by John Truby. All good reads, but you should really start with the basics with McKee who writes it very simple.

Since you are in Russia – wouldn’t English be a foreign language? You’ll go broke buying all the screenwriting books available – some good, most not so much. Much of it depends on where you are along the learning curve. My advice is to stay away from the tons of screenwriting formula books and concentrate on a few of the more technical ones. Once you get through The screenwriter’s Bible and Anatomy of Story, try to pen your own story. The best learning comes from hands-on doing.

Thank you, Doug, for being honest. This is the truth--we learn more from doing it than reading it.

For you Bible owners here's a suggestion: https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/hrJbLZdyVcN47UiNPkOgNknLZhlDYm2Dl-XtFN... Fedex Office did it for @$6

Doug and Mary, while I tend to agree that you can learn better on the job, screenwriting is a bit different. Before I went onto my first film set, I read every book out there about set etiquette and jargon on a film shoot. I learned more in a week than I did in all the books I read on the job. Screenwriting is different. I would recommend all new screenwriters to read a few books and find some good samples out there. Reading quality scripts is similar watching quality movies. You learn how to tell a story and craft it correctly. Mainly, what I notice with new screenwriters is that they have very little understanding of the importance of script structure.

Totally agree. I taught screenwriting for 10 years to young hipster. I'm also a playwright and what I noticed is that beginning screenwriters write dialogue - they write plays. I guess that's really what's going on in our heads. Writing a screenplay takes a totally different approach. But I recommend reading good screenplays more than anything else.

I teach a class where new screenwriting students bring in a copy of their favorite film via a post-production copy of its screenplay. We workshop to explore and discover all of the elements that made it so perfect for our individual tastes. I make them autopsy the corpses of these films they revere until we are down to the bones or structure that bore the weight of that entire story. Often, the fired-up students prove they can improve their cherished scripts. Fun Class and I learn right along with the young screenwriters. MEg

MEg – I take a similar approach to teaching screenwriting except that I concentrate on the short form. At day one, their assignment is to write a complete short (10 pg) script. At the end (6 weeks) the class will select the best and I will produce it for them. This is off topic for this thread but it has inspired me to start another on teaching screenwriting.

Your in the right place to get some great advice! Good Luck!

Do you want to learn the format... or Plot points, forshadowing, motif, subtext, or narrative? There is a good book on The Complete Guide to Standard Script Formats.. ISBN 0-929583-00-0 Good Luck!

There are some wonderful resources online, there are also many good books. The Screenwriters Bible for one. there are so many blogs and articles about screenwriting I feel that I get a full course by just saving the artilce to my pocket. Reading them at my leisure and saving the ones which really have meaning. Please post me if you would like more references to the places I find things on the internet. Good luck and happy writing.

abebooks.com for used books. a great resource. And Seeger's book is excellent. Just write that first draft and then give it a go.

Have you checked Amazon? This is quite a popular, "go to" book for screenwriting, so I'd be very surprised if you can't find a new or used copy there.

This is very in-formable, I hope I am using the right words. This is awake up call to be as well.

Alle, your advice is terrible. "Write in whatever format you feel is working for you." Are you kidding me? And you read 2000 scripts a year?

Sorry, I'm just catching up on these messages. You are all giving advice from what worked for you which is wonderful as there is no right or wrong way to learn and grow writing talents. Bottom Line: The writer MUST have a good STORY to tell. If the Story does not contain unique characters who "sing and dance" around what life throws at them? It does not matter what format you write in because the story is FLAT. Still, I preach to all new writers to be conversant in both book manuscript and screen writing as these two abilities will behoove you to spot the subtle nuances when you have the space to write long in a book. Much easier then to cull the golden nuggets for your screenplay.

Hi Hilary and Mary Ellen, I am new to this and would appreciate any tips. Thanks for the message, Mary Ellen.

Conchita--there is a screenwriter, Mike Gavin, on here who lives in your town. You should connect with him.

I like "The Screen Writers Bible" and Truby's "Anatomy of Story". I have "Save the Cat" but not real keen on the message it puts out. The Bible has good points toward proper writing for a spec script and formatting, while "Anatomy" is good on structure and plot points.

Thank you, Robert!

Alle, writing free form is not what you had mentioned previously. I was reading what you wrote and it said "don't worry about format". This strikes me as bad advice. Not really sure what you mean by criticizing you with my fears. I did read what you wrote and it wasn't as clear as what you are saying to me now. Free writing is totally fine. In fact, I encourage it. Write out your ideas before scripting for sure. I write treatments, bios, back stories, etc. until the idea is solid enough to draft.

So, with that being said, I read into what you wrote earlier as different than you intended. For that, I apologize. I see too many people giving too much false and terrible advice out there that I had to respond. Too many people out there think they know everything about anything. Hope that settles things :)

Sean Patrick Burke--you are a true Irishman so talented and very serious about the Art of Writing. It's a pleasure listening to your bravado and also hearing your sweet words. If you ever get to the Capitol--we will meet for a shot of Hennessey and Alle Segretti will meet up with us too. Yeah, we will have fun hee hee!

Ha! Mary, that sounds quite splendid! I will gladly message you next time in the area!

Great! And you're buying the first round. It would be fun to meet you and Alle. Mary Ellen/MEg

I may have written some.

I may have read some of them ... Hmm .... Or did I read all of some of them? Or some of all of them. Or maybe I read all of the Kindle samples. Who knows? I do remember enjoying the reads and appreciating William's style.

To add to what Alle is saying, it seems sensible to write a story first. You don't have to write a novel. Since a screenplay is 90-120 pages, a 9-12 page short story is reasonable. However, you can't neglect plot, theme, plot points, etc. Those are part and parcel to story. So, perhaps an outline of the story, then a short story, then move on to script. Eventually, you may be able to do away with outline and/or short story and go to script sooner.

The Essentials of Screenwriting by Richard Walter.

Richard Walter sounds like a good guy to learn from. You can find interviews with him on youtube. I may check out that book myself.

I definitely suggest Save the Cat by Blake Snyder!

I definitely suggest you stay away from Save the Cat

From AFRICA here is one I let my students use -SUCCESSFUL SCRIPTWRITING by Jurgen Wolff & Kerry Cox from Writer's Digest Books Cincinnati Ohio MIKE e-mail: BuyOurWork@vodamail.co.za

I concur. Truby's "Anatomy of Story" is a much better choice over "Save the Cat." Also, McGee has his "Story: Structure, Substance..." which is a bit more loose in terms of story structure, but conveys the important elements quite well. Neither of these two say something MUST happen at such and such page. They tout the organic approach to story craft and that means that events happen naturally as they should, when they should.

And one we seem to have forgotten, Syd Field's "Screenplay: The Foundations of Screenwriting." I don't have it, but I'm thinking strongly of getting it.

Robert, yes, I wrote about Syd Field up above. He is number 3 on my to go list. Start with McKee, go to Truby, and then to Fields. I concur with Doug Nelson. STAY away from "Save the Cat"! It is formulaic. There should never be a formula in telling a good story and this is what Truby will tell you. "Save the Cat" worked for a few people, but it is recognizable by many now if your story follows the formula.

After enjoying the past 30 minutes reading the comments you folks generously provide and exchange, I look forward to returning soon and learning more from your shared suggestions, experiences, and insights.

I have most if not all the books that have been mentioned on this thread. My two favorites, though, are "Writing for Emotional Impact", which tells you what you need to do and then gives 8-10 steps of how to do it, and "Writers Guide to Character Traits", a psychologists approach to a person's character.

I invite you to utilize my book "How To Write a Movie in 21 Days - The Inner Movie Method". If you have questions along your way I am happy to answer. www.vikiking.com

wow!!! thanks for the input everyone. this was all eye-opening, very informative and interesting to read. Thanks once again.

Are you needing the format Hilartpy?

Linda Segar is not a screenwriter, and Like Sid Field, has never written a script. The only books I recommend are John Truby's "The Anatomy Of Story" and for getting the script format right and marketing yourself and your scripts, David Trottier's "The Screenwriter's Bible". I do recommend adding to that list Michael Rabiger's "Directing: Film Techniques and Aesthetics".

Michael, does one have to be a novelist to analyze a book for it's value? I remember reading a book I could not get past the 1/3 mark and to this day, I still don't know why, but I'm learning why some work and some fail. Does this mean my opinion or even detailed critique is worthless because I'm not a published author?

Actually, yes. You don't employ an accountant to build an extension onto your house or service your car. That book you can't get past 1/3rd. There are usually three reasons for this: 1) You ran into a major plot hole in the book that contradicted all that was written before, 2) The Author used major story elements that created deeper levels of character and plot to the story, that if you were only trained in the 3-act structure you would not be aware of, or 3) You went past many misunderstood words that you didn't get defined or didn't define properly.

Really? #2 would cause reading to become such a chore? And #3, would look up words I didn't understand. I had a computer back then too. FWIW, it was the novel "Shadowrun," by TSR publishing (now defunct). Such an awful book. Anyway, it did the job of inciting my interest into learning why some prose works and others don't, but I won't spend money on the book again just to analyze it. I'd have to get it free.

Star Wars was rejected 12 times because of #2, and I suspect a bit of #3 also.

Hi Hilary, I would recommend Save the Cat by Blake Snyder. This book is my bible. Sue Swenson Portland, OR

Hey Sue, check this thread as many have posted that while we like the author, we fault the formulaic book.

Hi Hilary, I would suggest you begin with Writing Screenplays that Sell by Michael Hague, Screenplay by Syd Field, and then go on to Story by Robert McKee. Those are the basics. You can then go on to some more advanced books like Save the Cat by Blake Snyder and Chris Vogler's The Writer's Journey. There are more being written every day, and any of the ones other people have suggested are great. I like to read a new book every time I finish a screenplay. Oh, and the more professional screenplays you can find the better. You can buy them or you can look for free ones on the Internet. That will show you how the pro's really write.

Eric, "Save the Cat" is a bad book. It has very hard, fast rules on how/when something should occur. It's fine to say certain things must happen before something else, such as the Inciting Incident before the climax, but Snyder says the Inciting Incident has to happen on page 10. BS. I've heard pages 10-17, but if you look at "Rocky", it didn't happen until much later than that. Another thing, while Snyder is a produced screenwriter, his two films are "Stop or my mother will shoot" and "Blank Check," two big flops, so his formula didn't work for him. However, to Snyder's credit, he does push organizational idea that most likely work. My head goes blank when I sit at a computer, but if I have a pen and pack of index cards, the ideas tend to flow. So, index cards, a cork board, outline, yeah, all good things in my eyes. Now if I could get the FD or FadeIn developers to put in a function to export sluglines w/ synopsis to a file that I could load up into an outliner. Yeah, that would be a nice feature.

Robert, "inciting incident before the climax"?? Let's look at the word "climax": It means "End, especially to reach a final or climactic stage". Why would the Inciting incident be at the end of your story? But then you are going to tell me the author says the climax is in the middle of the story... If your tools are imprecise (and in cases like this, dumb), there is nothing you can do to make the story work. Your structure must mirror how human action actually works. It must also mirror how aberrated human action actually works. This is where structure and character merge. Plot is what the character (hero/heroine) DOES. It's the hero's story told by you. The opponent/antagonist and minions is how aberrated human action works. So, in effect, you are showing the audience a better way to live and survive in the world and how to treat people properly and with respect.

Climax does not mean end. It means the most exciting or intense point of something, a culmination or apex. I agree some some of your points, but your diplomacy could use some polish because it was an exaggerated case-in-point. What Snyder advocates though is a strict placement of events. Truby lists 22 steps but goes onto say that the writer should be flexible and the story should dictate how events occur and may have less or more, depending on the story. As for the climax coming before the Incite, off the top of my head, I could imagine a script involving time travel, selective memory, scattered memory, etc in which the Incite is not shown until after the climax. However, let's pick something not so exaggerated. How about criticism by ally before the plan, or visit to death before point of no return?

Hey Guys, Hilary was simply looking for a book. You all should meet for a beer and carry on your discussion in private – you’re filling my in-box with junk. ‘nuff said.

I apologize. I'm used to having to deal with amateur screenwriters that use the 3-act structure (using Mallory's 2-act play structure) or Creative Writing and have to explain in detail because they have studied totally incorrect writing technologies from the likes of non-writers such as Sid Field, those that mix structures into a mindless lump, and those that mistakenly think the Heroes Journey applies to more than just Myth, etc., Myth is circular and starts 3/4 into the story, so by-passes Mallory's play End of Act One (Climax) and continues through to conclusion. Think of a screenplay as a One Act play. Produced screenwriters such as Jeanie MacPherson (Cecil B. DeMille's screenwriter), Hitchcock, Frances Marion, Anita Loos, Lois Weber (also a director), Elinor Glyn, Lenore Coffee (also the very first Script Doctor), Frank Capra and Truby, to name a few, created and advanced Hollywood screen storytelling. These people and their screenwriting technology are why audiences watch Hollywood films. They are the foundation of great screenwriting. Non-screenwriters like Joseph Campbell, Sid Field and most that write books on screenwriting is how to fail to get a sale. I like Truby because his structure is as close to human action as possible, while passing on the technology of those foundation screenwriters. You get a full Hollywood education on what made their movies great, memorable and much loved. Spielberg, Lucas, George Miller (Road Warrior) apply Truby's technology, while Nora Ephron not only applied Truby, but learned from and applied Lenore Coffee & Lois Weber's screenwriting technology. Their films were great because they did not use Mallory's 2-Act play structure (the 3-act structure) for film. You mentioned examples like time travel, memory problems, etc. Time travel films do not end the film in the middle then start up again. The film Xanadu (with Olivia Newton-John) did, but it looked like the first writer ran out of ideas and petered out, and another writer took up where the writer left off and rewrote the story from there on. Kinda like putting the sequel in the middle of the original script to finish off the story. It doesn't work. The Time Traveler's Wife was all over the place like a dog's dinner: no through-line, no consistent story, episodic. Emotion determines motive determines behavior (actors know this full equation in order to portray characters you've written). H.G Wells' The Time Machine is about grief and loss. In the story, the time machine is the vehicle used to attempt to reverse that loss (the death of his wife). Most of the best films of each decade run either on loss of identity or loss of control. Newspapers will tell you which of the two are prevalent in the society at the time. 1984 was about loss of identity. 2001: A Space Odyssey was about loss of control. each episode of Harry Potter runs between both. At home with his adopted parents he has loss of identity. As a wizard, he has/fears/fights against loss of control. Voldemort is linked to the loss of his parents (grief) and wants to take away his identity. Harry Potter has grief and loss as its foundation and shows how to handle it so a person gains both identity and control in their life.

@Michael Wilde, I've not read Syd Field. I've heard of him after I got McKee and Truby. Truby's presentation I like. It gives a sense of framework without the really cast in stone rules, except for his baseline 7. McKee on the other hand gives little to no sense of structure, but emphasizes the importance of the various elements at the core of a good story. Those two books are taking care of what I need to know outside of the mechanics of writing, but if you have other suggestions, I'm all eyes. I have a kindle and a brain that at one time had an advanced reading level. I had taken creative writing in college, but I'm learning more about cinematic story telling and I like it. I tend to divide Act 2 into Act 2A and 2B, leaving Act 1 and 3 as is. It just makes it easier to work with some lines of delineation. I have a feeling, as I start to get greater understanding of arcs and how to make use of them, I'll use more acts. I'll look for works by the other names you mentioned. I want to know more. Coincidence that you talk about loss. The main in my story is actually gaining memories that aren't his own. I tried to juxtapose it against his fear of losing his identity and control, but I may not be pushing that hard enough. In the end, he loses little himself, embracing the addition, his end goal changes, his success mixed with a healthy dose of failure. Life can be like that.

Acts only work in TV because it essentially has as its foundation plays that are televised, hence the term "Teleplay". A half-hour sitcom to one hour drama would have from 4 to 7 "Acts" because the curtain comes down between the Acts (for commercials), bracketed by a Teaser and a Tag. Movies had their birth on the big screen, not from plays... and there is no intermission halfway through or twice through the movie, so "Acts" are redundant. Acts have absolutely nothing to do with structure. You can put an Act anywhere. But a house without a structure or solid structure will fall down the moment a dog farts. McKee kinda has a structure but it is based on "Set up--Play Out--Payoff" and not much more. with Inciting Incident and Crisis (where Truby and the foundation writers put a "Battle") thrown in. He has no map to the middle sixty pages (which is half your script and contains the major action in your story). Referring to the middle sixty as " rising action/conflict" tells you nothing. On the other hand, he has very workable hints and tips. Having a character taking on memories not their own is extremely difficult to get right and so easy to make a gaping plot hole, full of unbelievability. If you attempt to use standard psychology you will lose, because it is totally unworkable in a script as well as in in the real world. The loss has to be personal - family and/or friend related. Look at command phrases given to the character, such as "You're just like ___" or "You'll never amount to anything, like ___" and work with that. On the other hand, the character can have someone they looked up to or admired that died or left. They do a life continuum on that person or people - by being them. It takes "What would ___ do?" to the extreme. Also, it could be memories of their various past lives coming up in the present.

I am a member of two peer review sites and a mentor has offered up to review my script. The sites will have to wait until I have it completed, but I think the mentor will be helpful on a "act-by-act" basis. From that, I hope to get some good feedback from people who know how to review a story. At the least, I can get a feeling from them that I can query. It'll just be a matter of asking the right questions. Have you read the Dramatica theory of storycraft? I read the first half of it. A bit abstract and maybe more academic than I prefer, but some of it stuck with me. I was curious if you had read it and your thoughts on it.

View with suspicion ANYONE that talks about the 3-Act structure. Make sure those talking about an act-by-act review are ONLY talking about TV scripts.

Well...I'm having a hard time phrasing this to make it clear...I should say, the mentor might help if I submit the pages between plot points, inclusively. I just use the word act as a shorthand, but I have sections of the outline delineated by acts and at one time, sequences, but they were there to mark plot points and groups of related scenes. But I do understand. Truby even goes on to say the three act structure is dated and a writer needs to learn advanced plotting to advance their skill.

A plot point can be anything you call a plot point. It is that imprecise. Truby does NOT call it dated. He writes:- "The so-called three-act structure is the biggest, most destructive myth ever foisted on writers. I would like to call it obsolete. But that implies that it worked in the first place. It didn't. Let me explain why. The three-act structure exists for one reason, and one reason only: a story analyst declared it into existence. He found that something important seemed to happen in some successful scripts on page 27 and on page 87. He called them plot points, said that based on these plot points every screenplay had three acts, and incredibly, everyone bought it. Such has been the sad state of screenwriting training and the desperation of screenwriters themselves that no one notices that the emperor was in fact naked. Instead, a lot of people who should know better joined in the chorus and wrote screenwriting books (over 100 to date) agreeing with this silly idea. Some have gone so far as to say that there are three acts in all fiction -- there aren't -- and insist that it was Aristotle who first "discovered" this "fact". In fact, Aristotle never said anything about three acts. He said there is a beginning, middle and end to every story, and that is the extent of your knowledge when you use the 3-Act structure. ... dividing a film into three acts is far too general and simplistic. The standard terms that this "method" uses - act, plot point, climax, resolution, etc - are so broad as to be almost meaningless. And that means these terms are difficult to apply to your particular plot and characters. For example, say your hero is being chased down a dark ally by some bad guys. Is that a plot point, a denouement, a climax, rising action, or just another scene? Who knows? Our story concepts are our tools. If our tools are imprecise, we are bound to fail."

I concur with reading the Wordplayer columns, they are what helped me start to write. As others have also suggested, I highly recommend the screenwriters bible by David Trottier. Formatting is so important with screenplays and an incorrectly formatted screenplay does you no favors.

Hey Pierre. Thanks.

No probs, Charlie.

There seem to be varying responses on this thread and varying opinions. It's ok to read books on screenwriting, it's ok to read columns on screenwriting, it's ok to listen to podcasts on screenwriting and it's even ok if that advice is furnished from someone who hasn't had a produced screenplay. There are a lot of people who work in the industry without actually selling scripts, people who successfully advise fellow writers and studios and are paid to do so. Try some things to find out what works for you, if it doesn't work for you, drop it but if it helps you to draw inspiration and gets your creative juices flowing, then by all means, keep doing it.

It is interesting reading all the varying responses on this thread. Most people read the title but not the question. Hilary was looking for an english language version of Linda Seger's book.

You need the screenwriter 's Bible written by David Trottier

Dorine. If you look flush right across you'll see when the last message was posted. In this case it was four years ago so there is no reason to respond to their question and in many cases the person that posted the original message may longer be here or even writing screenplays.

Zombie thread, lock them.