Screenwriting : Advice Needed by Max Orton

Hi Max, I think you have to be harsh else you're destined for the weeds. If you have nothing signed then move on to the deal with money and a contract. Doesn't sound like a legit business person.

Sounds sketchy af. I would email him to say you're moving on.

Thanks Gary & Thanks Pierre! I guess sometimes we learn the hard way in this industry

To be honest Owen. I think it was the fact I was led down the wrong path by him. Originally I was under the impression his production company was gonna fund it etc. That was the original conversation and then I’m being told that I should be jumping on board as a producer which is where I think my alarm bells began to rang. Put it this way he’s something that has never had a successful movie.

In regards to the rewrite this was during the period I was under the impression the paperwork was coming. All this took place after the rewrite. Once again to reiterate he did no rewrite instead I’d say it was more a script evaluation which is why I’m refusing to give a credit. Obviously this has been a huge learning curve In not doing anything without contracts in place

1) Let him know you feel the conversation has shifted in a direction you're no longer comfortable with. Thank him for his interest, but you're choosing to move in a different direction with your original script.

2) Alarm bells are your gut. Never ignore them.

3) Nothing signed, no worries. You have a chain of emails, should he get haughty.

4) Don't use any of his changes/suggestions in your script.

Based on what you're saying, you're okay. You have to do what's best for you. It can be hard, and yes, these lessons aren't much fun, but there they are.

Keep us posted and trust your gut. Good luck!

Just outta curiosity. If I kept the current version. Which is based on my hard work and listening to a few notes which were like

- trim dialogue

- take our this

No scenes or dialogue were written by him. But wanted a credit for it. I’m going to revert back and work on all the sections i changed without his notes etc. But with no contract In place

Surely there is nothing he can do ?

Cheated for what ???

The good thing is I’ve got on record all the email exchanges. The suggested script changes.

Only thing I don’t have is a contract ? Or option agreement.

Max, your first step should have been to research the person/company. I'm not sure why you didn't do that in the first place. Or did you??

I had a producer who wanted changes made to a script as a pre-requisite to him optioning it. Eventually I lost interest in making any more changes and I've now sold the script to another producer.

Thanks Kay.. I did do my research on him and his production company and like I said I have in writing him saying he wanted to produce it through his production company and we would do the paperwork before pre production. At first I thought he was going to be a decent guy to work with and as time went on it became apparent there are no funds. I have to help raise funds.

He mentioned line producing it but we would have to have a written agreement he got paid for That even though we didn’t have any funds ???

I think he is your typical hustler.... will want something for nothing.. But even though I feel I shouldn’t have to revert back to my origional script as I worked damned hard on the rewrite.. I will so I don’t have him anywhere near my work.

Because I feel he’s the type of guy to try and make a claim he deserves something.....

Max does he produce scripts in your genre and how successful is he? I probably would have contacted people that he did work with and see what their experiences were as well. I don't know...I'm a research nerd. I find out as much as I can before I hand off my baby : )

Christine I researched his company and the stuff and what they produced wasn’t great but as a script writer you want your stuff made so this was me under false pretences I guess. My main worry is this coming back to haunt me once I sell it to the other production company. They are completely the opposite to what I was dealing with before. I don’t want him trying to hustle money outta me. I do have him on record saying he did “writes” for free ... but the frustration is he never wrote anything!!!!!! Just suggested changes :-/

I suppose that would hold up if he tried suing ... But he didn’t have money to option my script so I doubt he doesn’t have money for lawyers too...

Ugh...well good luck. Sorry you're going through this!

Max,

I agree with Christine, and hope you'll take her advice and be more cognizant of that in the future. Lesson learned.

I'm pretty sure that intellectual property transfers in themselves need a written contract in England, but I'm not sure about partnerships or claims of ownership, or whatever else you may have discussed. You may want to check with an attorney, and it shouldn't be that much to find that out. Here in the states a verbal agreement can be ruled valid and enforceable if certain conditions have been met.

You might want to carefully look back through your emails to make sure that you didn't commit to anything, but that doesn't address the "verbal" issue. And if he does sue you, you'd still have to defend yourself in court, and even if it's a lawsuit with no merit or is frivolous, and a judge throws it out. And the person can even falsify documents, or even have a buddy or two corroborate any potential verbal misrepresentations. Hopefully none of that will happen.

So check your emails carefully, and don't just skim them. And, obviously, in the future, do it right and get everything in writing. You may want to create a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU), after conversations that may lead to any type of future agreements. An MOU in itself if not a legal document, but paves the way for a contract and spells out the matters that were discussed and agreed upon and that then should bring you to a contact/agreement stage. They help keep things focused and on-track.

And no disrespect to you in saying all of this. Sometimes you don't need to do an (MOU), and can go right into the contract/agreement stage, but many places that I've worked at or worked with require them between the negotiation stage and the contract stage .. But think of it like this: you talk; you agree; you acknowledge what you agreed upon (MOU); and you legally make the agreement.

Best wishes in sorting it all out, and in your creative endeavors, Max!

Thank you all for the advice!

Definitely lesson learned. Being from

The Uk I know the laws are slightly different to US and would cost him a hell of a lot to try and sue being in different countries.

I actually have a friend who is seeking advice from her entertainment attorney so I’m waiting to hear back as I type.

In the meantime I will simply revert back to my origional version and dismiss any suggested changes. Thus in my opinion there isn’t anything he can do about it!

You owe this guy nothing, not even an apology or polite explanation. Tell him plainly he is no longer part of the project and any further communication from him will be ignored. This situation calls for the cleanest of breaks.

Max - lots of good advice here. Treat this as a teachable moment and move on (education don't come easy).

If someone else wants to buy it and you are not contractually bound to this guy, move on. If he asks, you found a better buyer/producer. Good luck.

Guys .... I really appreciate the feedback you have all given today!! Thank you so much!!!!

Ricardo and Stephen. Quick question

What happens if I took his advice on notes he gave me ? Baring in mind we had no contractual agreement.

He wouldn’t hold any leverage and try to claim the scene is like this due to his recommendation? Like I said. It was literally notes like “lose this” “cut this”

Think low budget etc

The notes are yours to use, whether they go on the page or not.

A verbal contract is weak but holds some water. I’d make it clear in writing that you desire no association with him, then ditch the notes. There’s no reason to keep them and, if they were as vague as you described, they’re no good anyway. Also, screenshot everything in this thread in case you need to demonstrate to a judge that you weren’t trying to exploit this guy or deprive him of a writing credit.

Take it as a valuable life's lesson (I know no writer who hasn't been through the same or similar case- me included). Make sure you have some form of proof that you're totally disengaged with the guy (email, message, anything) and move on - the work is all yours. Don't let the guy's psychological pressure get in the way of your work.

Can he get the script produced? Then it might be worth it to give him a writing credit, as you might also be able to get a producing credit. If he can't get it produced then cut him loose.

There's a movie script in this situation alone. Diabolical note giver forever seeks credit and stalks the writer... Please, Lay low for awhile Max! (joke)

Sorry to hear you've been caught up in this situation Max Orton You've been given some really good direction and advice here on handling things moving forward. I myself, am paying attention to them as to not fall victim to people like this. Hope it doesn't turn into anything more than it is, and you can enjoy seeing your project move forward somewhere reputable.

Thanks guys! Still appreciate all these comments. In reply to Steven. In order to move this project forward he wanted to do the line producing on it. Even though we had no contract to start, I had no payment agreement etc he would have drawn up some paperwork in order to agree he got paid for line producing even though we didn’t have anything prior to that including a budget.

This was the moment I began questioning whether he was capable of getting this into production.

A friend has gone through everything for me and basically put;

No one is attached to anything until things are written on the paper and signed. End of the story

LOL. A line producer's main job is to manage the budget of a project. It's kinda telling that a dude who claimed to be a line producer - the ultimate detail-oriented person - wouldn't have taken care of an important matter like a written agreement up front.

Best fortunes in your creative endeavors, Max!

Bill... That comment means a lot thank you!