Screenwriting : No one actually likes likeable characters by Craig D Griffiths

I think that's very true and a more accurate description of society as a whole these days. It's not just in entertainment true but I can't help but feel entertainment was a big part of it. Thanks to people like Jerry Springer, Gordon Ramsey and the fake "reality TV shows" people started getting rewarded for being mean. Springer highlighted terrible people and people started watching, Gordon Ramsey turned it into an art. Trump turned it into a presidency.

Hi Claude,

There are a huge number of characters, that yes may be heroic, but are not likeable.

The entire family from Parasite.

Joker.

Walter white (as mentioned before).

Hannibal Lector (everyone remembers his lines, but not Jodie Foster’s)

Taxi Driver (you looking at me).

Del Toro’s character in Sicarino

Anyone Micheal Stormare plays (most of the time).

These are not nice people. We may like their lack of niceness. This technically makes them likeable. But that is not the meaning behind “your characters have to be likeable”. We like that they are compelling, but we don’t like them.

Robert McKee has a chapter on characters and unlikeable characters are more interesting, especially if they are flawed.

Hope you feel better Craig D Griffiths . I'm still recovering from it myself. There is something to what you're saying - a growing trend that unlikeable is the flavor of the day. But is entertainment reacting to it or inciting it? On a personal level, I grieve over it. I may be curious as to what makes them that way but for me, that doesn't translate to likeable.

Agreed, Craig. As a former actor with 30 years of professional stage and TV experience, likable characters are thankless positions to have on stage or before the cameras. I've played some downright despicable characters in my past, but needless to say, they sure were interesting and thought-provoking. Same can be said about the Bad Guys and Girls in our pages.

I agree, Craig D Griffiths. Characters need to be interesting. And entertaining and well-developed. Do those things and I don't think it matters if the character is likeable or not.

Flawed characters > Perfectly likeable characters.

Captain America, for all his greatness, isn't a perfect superhero. In fact, his blindness gets in the way many times. If you've followed the MCU, his abnegation often leads to bad outcomes.

And Craig, I wish you a great recovery my friend. I hope all goes well.

Craig D Griffiths I think likeable is such a ‘meh’ word. It really has no value. It's a bit like ‘nice’. Perhaps a better word for Characters should be nuanced not ‘likeable’?

I hope you feel better soon, Craig.

A hero is someone who sacrifices himself/herself for the greater good, it can be a kind person or the opposit; there's just one constant; at this moment of clarity, moment of herodom, there's NO EGO.

The protagonist:

We a identify with the protag. in a movie because he/she solves the problems, how hard they may seem. We mostly don't.

The Antagonist:

The same. We identify with the antag. because we long to be the badass, but mostly we aren't, too scared to change anything in our lives even if we hit rock bottom; at least that lowpoint is controlable at some point. If we try to change things, we often (must) lose controle (to get controle later on,) and the scariest thing is to lose control, not knowing what is going to happen.

The flawed hero:

Again, the same. We are all flawed. In pain. The flawed hero comes closest to what we are in real life. The hero solving his/her problems is therefore more interesting.. I love "Unbreakable" as being the best superhero movie because it is NOT a superhero movie; it's about both the protag. and the antag. looking for PURPOSE in life, being hurt, scared, scarred. Mr. Glass looking, searching, for his alterego (finally finding him ad being David Dunn) in a most despicable way to prove (to himself and others) his life had/has meaning, purpose. Where there is a hero there must be an antihero. Jing-jang.

Most interesting is that David Dunn does not want to be a superhero, even after he knows he is; he's just looking for purpose (an inner voice), and now that he has become superhuman he knows his purpose has always been to help people in need...In need, as he himself was before he found his purpose, isn't that ironic!

I’m with you, gimme the antihero any day!! Louis Bloom is a beautifully wrought specimen.

I think we like interesting characters, whether protagonist or antagonist. Someone that we don't feel like it's a waste of time to watch. And isn't a hero just a person who overcomes adversity? I seem to remember the saying that the antagonist is always the hero of his/her own story.

Yes, killing the cat would draw interest. I tend to think because of that unbearable darkness repressed within all of us. But, imagine if killing the cat laid the path to metaphorically finding a way out of that darkness and into the light. Now, that's interesting!

Anti-heroes are flawed beings, like you and I, hence why they are more captivating to see on screen, mostly when they fail.

We like characters, but I don’t think they are the traditional “likeable” characters. Think of Liam Neeson in TAKEN, a good guy version wouldn’t have killed people. He would have knocked them out and called the cops to come pick them up.

Flaws are amazing. But I love justifiable evil people. Give me a bad person I can relate to and I am a happy man.

Thanks everyone for your comments and insightful conversation.

One of the main things that draws a audience to a character is if there is something understandable about them. This goes for when character’s do good or bad things.

Interesting thought - but defining likability is at the center of the subject so it seems to matter. I would remove likable and attach the protagonist to what they are trying to achieve - to me that will define the audience interest. Consider the terrorist who has murdered innocent people but one day reaches a moment, staring at a group of school kids about to be blown up, so he fights back against his mates to save the kids....? :) We suddenly hate the fact that we are cheering for him.

"...hate the fact that we are cheering for him" Briljant marketing tool I (also) use in the Final Solution. Did you see that scandalous movie? "No?" Or maybe yes...Everybody is going to watch, tell how scandalous the movie is, and visit their shrink. But he/she has seen the movie too.

Richard, I understand your example. Saving the kids is trying to make that person “traditionally likeable”, hence the name of the book “Save the cat”. I would personally see that as an ‘eye roll’, of course he did, we had to save the bad guys soul. I know it was just an example.

I think we are moving away from this (I am happy to be wrong), but I think bad guys are more free to be bad. Protagonists are also bad guys. If we look at Game of Throne, Mother of Dragons goes bad. The family in Parasite are highly questionable. Of course we have Walter White or Gus from Breaking Bad as well as all the characters from Peaking Blinders.

I think bad people are more interesting as their is nothing that holds them back. The Godfather movies for example.

What I like to do is have a bad guy do something good and then punish him for it. That if he stay bad, true to himself, he would have thrived.

Thanks everyone for the interesting conversations.

I kind of agree with you Craig - likeable often means boring, a kind character, too smooth or with no cracks has no interest. I hope you're doing better :)

Craig, I agree with you to a point. One of the most difficult, and oftentimes a failure, is the attempt to make ordinary women characters interesting which is why I avoid Hallmark movies, all Disney princess movies, and every movie with a stereotypical female "sidekick." I'll eagerly watch The Red Baron, but have never had an interest in Amelia Earhart ... she was daring, I suppose, but seems to have had the personality of a dishrag.

I get tons of flack for being misogynistic, but I've never found most female characters/roles likeable or interesting, especially now when female actors are interchangeable and imitate men more than being, well, interesting likeable women who DO things like discover radium or treat polio. I blame the film-makers who think audiences want to see 300 women in skimpy Greek uniforms fight the Persians .... wait a minute. I believe there IS an audience for that movie!

I will play devil's advocate on this one. I enjoy watching shows where the characters are good or mature, but that doesn't mean they are not flawed or make mistakes. I think as long as a character is human, they can be interesting. Example- Belle if you want to go Disney Princess, she actually displays her temper toward the Beast when she is cleaning up the cut from the wolves and if someone tells you to stay out of a section of their castle it is extremely rude to go exploring there. However, overall, she is a good person. To use a more current example is Mel from Virgin River, she handles everything life throws at her in a mature way, she makes mistakes, but overall seeing her deal with her issues and grow as a person is entertaining and I am rooting for her. However, I definitely have a soft spot for the reformed bad boy Brady and Jack's sister.

Jenean, I ageee, unfortunately most female characters are poorly written. One of my favourite characters is female, Amy.

There is one line that sums Amy up. “the world wants me to be less than I am and be happy about it”.

Jill, I think the word “likeable” has been done a disservice. In the old days. The advice was “people have to like your character”. To me this is out of touch people, believing they know more than everyone else. They couldn’t conceive that the audience could have complex thought. That perhaps we could see and relate to the actions of a bad person, someone that is traditionally “unlikeable”.

Stephanie, left lung collapsed, got a bucket load of IV drugs. Resting and watching some DC animations. There movies are good. Why they live action is as good baffles me.

"The world wants me to be less than I am and be happy about it” is such a strong line ! I love it. Wishing you a speedy recovery Craig

I actually agree Craig D Griffiths

Speedy recovery, Craig D Griffiths. Enjoy the animations and rest.

I don't know why this prompt made me think of Little Miss Sunshine. The cast of characters were all going through something, maybe flawed, but honest. I believed them all to be like-able, which made for a fun, quirky, heartfelt film.

I agree GiGI. I think some of the issues also stem from semantics. Likeable, good person, bad person, etc. The way we view people as a culture is changing as well, so the way we portray people is different. We understand that everyone has "good" and "bad". Everything is grey. I think what people don't like is fake. Fake characters. People who don't have any complexity or depth.

Forrest Gump is an example of a "good" character who is likeable. What makes him endearing is his frail positioning on the outside of society versus his herculean strength. The opposites keep him intriguing and endearing. No one likes a flat, good character or person because it rings insincere and inhuman.

It's all about perspective in the end. Game of Thrones is a perfect example of what Niki is talking about. Some characters we can't help but "sympathize" with. Alliser Thorne comes to mind. Sure, he despises Jon Snow because of his history with Ned Stark, mostly because of that, and later on, when Jon decides to let the Wildlings in the Night's Watch... You can hate him all you want, but the reason is more compelling in our eyes once it's out in the open. It just made me "respect" him more, even though he turned out to be a complete d***head.

Another example, Magneto in the X-Men prequels. Why he became such an incredible, yet despisable villain? Layers, upon layers of guilt, trauma and doubt.

Craig, can I quote this line mentioning you on my social networks? And thank you for your videos at the same time, I listen to them as often as I can because you give such great advice :)

Stephanie, of course. Share whatever you like. I am super happy that it has value to people.

Even happier that the videos land with people, even just a little. Thank you again.

I love everyone's responses on this thread. This is what makes our community so awesome - all of your perspectives are really insightful, and @gigiraines - interesting that you thought of Little Miss Sunshine, that's a great example of complex characters that you just love. For those of you who watched SUCCESSION, I think Logan Roy was a great example of a non-likable person but you loved watching him on screen. Would love to hear more people's take on this subject and throw out some examples of other characters that fit within this dynamic.

Certainly interesting!

Perhaps writers have simply taken dramatizing the flaws of a character to new extremes to push the envelope. As a result the likeable character is no longer likable because audiences are now conditioned to see these greater flawed characters and how they over come.

Allow me to add that I don't feel this is necessarily a new thing. A ton of Clint Eastwood's characters were unlikable. Even Han Solo is considered a scoundrel. Gizmo from the Gremlins also had a very dark side. Although, one has to admit that the unlikable character is more prominent in current times which IS something to think about when film is a reflection of society.

Amanda, another great example is Boris Shcherbina in Chernobyl, largely inspired by the real person. Without spoiling anything, his arc is basically a contest of circumstances that opened his eyes to the truth.

The question about a character is: is s/he a "good," bad-guy or a "bad," good-guy? Don Corleone is an example of a good, bad-guy. Sure, he's a gangster, but he says no to bringing drugs into the neighborhood. In A Bronx Tale, DeNiro is good (father), but bad, too (racist.) While Palminteri's character is a neighborhood thug who shoots another gangster (bad), but tells "C" to pursue the relationship with the black girl because "she may be one of the great ones" (good). He also uses a gun to kill, but slaps the guy selling guns to the younger boys in the neighborhood. But all have a chance to be likeable depending on their quirks as well as virtues and vices.

Sometimes, when I have a character who does a good thing, I give them a dubious motivation, which prevents the person from being simply good.

This is to say, after all comments taken! A sense of "mystery", even intensified, is what will "intrigue"...whether good or bad...Your thoughts!!!

I agree, Eon. A sense of mystery makes a character (or object) intriguing.

Maurice Vaughan, the world of mystery and intrigue "On screen", obviously can compel sensitive subjects, as we "entertainers", will know! And is the same in the "Real world"! "The challenge", one will ask! How do we as entertainers mystify, with "great responsibility"! Are there more mysteries, as far as the subject(s) is/are concerned? Is this where (subject(s), "hidden mystery and intrigue" resides?