Screenwriting : Watch out for sharks that prey on screenwriters. by Phillip E. Hardy, "The Real Deal"

I'm a big believer in "Buyer Beware" so I vett those I want to use. I have never felt fleeced and will use their services in the future.

My mantra: Listen to everyone; try everything. Follow no one. You are your own guru. :) Service providers in any industry have to be vetted ... that falls on us as consumers. You will get bilked from time to time. Doesn't mean (and I dont think you're suggesting) that selling your services is a bad thing. But, lots of snake oil out there. You have to kiss a lot of frogs to find your prince. No way around that... just keep one hand on the wallet. And I agree with Dan--it's incredibly hard to make a living as a writer, so teach teach teach. And why not share your experience and expertise with others... fees are the price of admission for your skills. Here is a fun article I posted a while ago on this... sums up my attitude :) http://www.jefflyonsbooks.com/pity-poor-consultant/

Jeff: We definitely live in a "let the buyer beware" world and one should always have there eyes open when paying for services for creative. But I'm also looking for people to post specific horror stories, if they so desire.

What Jeff said. One of the reasons we run the Happy Writers is that as a screenwriter myself, I was pissed off at all of the snake oil salesmen and opportunists entering the space. Unqualified readers, bullshit claims, teachers with no experience. There are very few reputable services and qualified teachers out there. Do your research, ask around.

RB: I got a script read request from Happy writers last month. To me, that definitely made it worth the price of admission.

A read request is an opened door. At best, it could lead to the promised land. At worst, it usually leads to the opportunity to present further work to that executive if this particular script is not for them. Further, it shows that your pitch is a winning one and that your story idea is compelling. And of course you're getting all this from a working executive. Full transparency. Appreciate you sharing your thoughts and feelings on the subject, Phillip. And, of course, wishing you all the best with the read!

I really wish I was better at skype-pitching. I just suck at it. I met with a producer IRL this weekend and I had no problems, she seems to love me. But put me in front of a computer with some rep I don't know and I freeze. Even when I practice, I start stuttering and sounding like an idiot. Ugh. I may try doing a written pitch again at some point though.

RB: I always look at any open door as an opportunity to get up to bat. Thanks for checking in, and your good wishes. I look forward to seeing you at Austin Film Festival in a few weeks.

Jody: Good post my friend. I have only done written pitches and connected with two. I'm very friendly but I think I'm better at offering a synopsis in writing. I could be wrong. But I've had the same hesitation you've had. I definitely want to do the verbal pitch soon just to test the aqua.

Can anyone actually name any of the "sharks"....or are there slander/defamation worries? Remember....it's your opinion...based on your experience. It's not slander if it's based on your experience with said sharksters. It's just like a bad restaurant review, or a bad film or product review. Thanks in advance for your shares.

Dan... HA

Jody, I've heard from writers who have felt awkward pitching to a screen. Can certainly understand that. But when I ask them how they prepare, they talk about their clothes, makeup, lighting, etc. They worry about all the things that in the grand scheme won't matter a lick. My advice is simply to be comfortable. Wear your favorite shirt, wear no shoes (no one is going to see your feet), make yourself a cup or tea or pour yourself a glass of wine. Relax. You know your pitch and story inside and out. Just treat the exec like he or she is an old friend.

Bill C: when relaying horror stories, best to keep it generic and not name names. Like with my example, I just said music attorney and didn't identity the rat bastard by name

Legit agents and managers are constantly on the hunt for material that they can take to market.

Dan: I couldn't tell you. It was years ago. I put my novel out on Kindle and made money that way.

especially watch out for the sharks that pretend to be your biggest cheerleader and love everything you do - for as long as youre paying or promoting them. Youre not paying someone to call you pretty or be your best friend. youre paying someone to tell you where you can get prettier. Just like any profession, there are the good, bad and ugly. Do the due dillifence.

Some really good advice here everyone. Judy: I feel the same way. RB, gave us great advice. No horror stories here yet. I stick to who I know and that's Stage 32.

I would urge everyone to read Caytha's blog (link below). She was a guest on my ON STAGE WITH RB webcast yesterday and it was one of the highest rated segments in the 2+ years we've been producing the show. Her success didn't begin with a pitch, it began with receiving coverage. She had access to an exec through the notes - not a no name, possibly unqualified reader. This led to an open door which led to breaking down barriers and stereotypes. You can read all about it here: https://www.stage32.com/blog/How-I-Went-From-Script-to-Screen-A-Happy-Wr... Very inspiring... And her segment will be available when the On Demand version of OSWRB goes up in a few days.

RB : Watched Caytha live yesterday. She was a great guest. And she got her foot in the door living in Jersey.

Not sure who Rob is, but I agree, Phil! Inspiring as hell.

RB : I'm using my cell phone. And I was a victim of auto correct.

Agree with Phillip...Caytha was a great guest, as was Joe...best two guests I've seen on the show.

I bust, Phil, I bust.

Appreciate you mentioning Joe, Brian. He knocked it out of the park as well. Very much looking forward to his webinar today. Not only a talented and giving guy, but one hell of a nice guy as well.

I think what I liked best about those guests was that they didn't sugar coat anything. They were very real in terms of 'this is how I work, this is how the business works, this is what you need to do to succeed.'.

Loved the show yesterday. Caytha is at the top of my list of favorite guests. As a screenwriter, author, director, producer, casting, and all of the other millions of jobs that go with indie production, she was an inspiration to keep going and not throw in the towel. There a plenty of people out there that will use you...just trust your gut instinct.

Phil: (And anyone interested)... I have spent and un-Godly' amount of money on my writing. More importantly, I believe that it will and has improved my abilities and my stories. Because of that, I'm willing to pay my hard earned money because I believe that there is a journey in my skill that is worth ratcheting up as frequently as possible. I have had amazing experiences with The Happy Writers, be it through consultation, script notes, pitching via Skype or (my preference & is an option) telephone. I work for a living on the phone, and I've found that I'm more comfortable with an ear piece and a baseball in my hand. To each is own; what I'm saying is, if paying for coverage is driving my wife over the cliff with my spending I at least KNOW that my writing has benefited because of it. I'm starting to place in contests and my creative juice is much easier to squeeze than it was two years ago and that gives me justification for the price that I pay. Also, if someone reads my material or enjoys my time then who knows? Maybe they will be eager to connect me to someone who'll (in turn) pay me?! I'm including a picture of what I've spent in the last year: What I want people to know is that a year and a half ago, I was not investing in my craft and coincidentally I was not placing in contests or getting script requests... Times have changed and so has my writing!

Stephen: I was tremendously impressed by the recent historical fiction material you sent me. Congrats on your success on the contest circuit. As you know, I've had a bit of luck doing that myself and it's always very gratifying to win or place in a contest or Film Festival.

Thanks, Phillip! It gets fun if you trust that it will, huh?

Brian - Glad you appreciated the unvarnished talk. I've sometimes been accused of being "too blunt", but I never gained anything as an actor, writer or producer by someone offering "kill them with kindness" feedback. I always ask the same of my guests. Be honest and be real. Joe and Caytha certainly brought that to the table yesterday.

Izabella - I agree. If you weren't inspired by Caytha yesterday, you're either too cynical to ever succeed or not breathing.

Stephen - I appreciate you sharing your experiences. When I decided to make the switch over from producing to writing, I saved up and put aside a war chest, so to speak, which I considered an investment in myself. That money went toward software, certain books, webinars and eventually pitch and other events/conferences and contests which gave me access. I would not be where I'm at if I hadn't done that. And yes, I needed to make some sacrifices to build that war chest. Cut out some expenses, made some changes. Even cutting out that extra $6 (so-called) coffee drink at Starbucks every day is a start.

Thanks, RB. I have a mason jar in my kitchen and deposit, daily, my loose change... That change is the (bank) for my contests'.

Cutting out coffee... you're all insane! :)

Caytha and Joe were BOTH inspiring yesterday. I was in and out of yesterday's webcast because of work and I intend on listening to it in full once it goes up. But, great On Stage this month!

Ryan, you are right they BOTH were inspiring...I was impressed when Joe said that some casting were using skype and video auditions. I did the same thing this past month for casting through backstage...He was very informational on things that I needed to hear since I'm having casting issues.

Thanks, Ryan!

I said EXTRA coffee, Jeff...And of course the $6 drinks I'm referring to...is it really coffee when all is said and done? :)

slightly off topic but related to the consequences of a world with an oversupply of writers: New Republic article September 2015 by Theodore Ross "Cheat: Its the Only Way to Get Published "

I'm sure I've told this story before in the forum, but I too had a bad experience with the Blacklist. It happened when I posted one of my earlier scripts, The Immortal Jack the Ripper. At the site's recommendation, I paid one of their reviewers fifty dollars to supposedly boost my readership. He didn't say anything positive or constructive about Jack. In fact, he essentially said it was the worst piece of crap he had ever read. About six months later, the first draft Jack script placed at Screencraft Action, Austin Film Festival and Richmond Film Festival. It has since placed at other film festivals. I've have since determined I had the bad luck to get a bitter reader who was having a bad day. But as far as the Blacklist, I think their service is worthless. I used it for free last year and it was still worthless. Inktip and Happy Writers far more effective. If BL works for someone, God bless em'.

CJ: Thanks for sharing and I'm sure they're are many more out there the were subjected to the same douchebaggery. Last year, when I made a critical remark on Twitter about one of their contests, the Blacklist owner tried to provoke me into a Twitter war. I politely told him if he was interested in real feedback, I'd give him my remarks offline. Funny, he wasn't the slightest bit interested in that offer.

Just to chime in... That has been my personal experience with The Black List too. I tried it for one month and quickly left the site. As CJ described it before, TBL brings casino mentality to script posting. And with casinos the house always wins. TBL's services and contrived notion/need for writers to improve their numbers by rolling the dice again and again by paying for more and more "evaluations" to better their odds is shameful. Sure, some may feel differently; this site may work for some who have unlimited funds. But for most writers you lose a lot of dough and emotional energy on a system that's built to make money.

I once paid this company to get rid of ghost, I think they where called "Ghostbusters" or something. Pretty sure it was a scam, I ain't afraid of no ghost. In all seriousness, I'm going to try one of the services on here when I feel my new script is ready. At this stage it's not quite there yet and I feel I'd just be wasting my money.

I agree with what you are saying. There are people in the industry who want to network with others and those who want to make money off of you. The best way to navigate is, ask lots of questions and see if you have a kinship with the organization or person. Then you can determine if you have a true kinship or if they are a scam artist.

Stephen Barber: Thanks for sharing your journey. Loved everything you said. I've saving up and writing a great deal since joining Stag 32, so to me there will never be an alternative. This is my last stop. RB: thank you for this gift, my friend.

HUMOR: Stranded at sea in a tiny boat, 3 Hollywood agents spot a shark coming straight at them. Though the 2 younger agents are terrified, the oldest agent is calm. Sure enough the shark swims away. PUNCHLINE: _ _ _ _ _ _

Professional courtesy?

Greetings, I am the President (owner), Executive Producer, Director, Screenwriter and Editor, of four international Film Production companies’. That said; I am in agreement with you! However, time is a valuable commodity and comes at a price. First and foremost, do not give your Screenplay (intellectual property) to anyone, without them signing a Non-Disclosure Agreement. Furthermore, do not accept them to opt to produce your screenplay without your Entertainment Attorney being present, throughout the negotiation process. Best regards, Kevin Parsons

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Those that know me, know that giving up is not in my DNA.

As an exec, if any writer told me i had to sign a non disclosure before theyd send me their script to read, id tell them to go find someone else to send it to. Execs send YOU the NDA, not the other way around.

As an Executive Producer and Screenwriter, I would never give my Screenplay to anyone without them signing a Non-disclosure agreement! What preempts them from stealing the Idea (concept)?

I agree with that. People do steal, but we are in such a litigious society, it would be fool hearty to steal from someone. Especially with all the evidence of correspondence, such as email and message boards discussing potential projects.

No, watch out for a shrink dolphin that preys on a depressed loan shark--haha

Dear John Hunter, I trust you are well and thank you for your comment. 1/ Let me start off by addressing your concern. I agree with you, that we are living in a litigious world. In fact, I would rather like to see people, in this industry creating trust amongst each other, by signing Non-Disclosure Agreements’. I too would not have signed that contract. 2/ Let me sketch a scenario for you. I intend making use of A-List Actors,’ for the lead roles’ in my feature films’, which are currently underway. That said; as the owner, Executive Producer of my film production companies’, and Screenwriter, I personally made contact with their prospective U.S.A. Agents’ and or Managers’ in question. Moreover, I made it clear from the outset, who I wanted, and what I was offering. More importantly, as most of the A-Listers’ are producer’s themselves, I requested that they first sign a Non-Disclosure Agreement. To preempt them from stealing my idea (concept). Some of them, i.e. Agents’/ Managers’, had no reservation, to inform me that they would not sign the agreement, nor would the person they represent. On the other hand, there were Agents’/ Managers’, that had no problem with it, and was very cooperative in signing my Non-Disclosure Agreements’. The fact of the matter is, every one of my Screenplays’, that I have written, is my personal “intellectual property!” Furthermore, although I have registered the said Screenplays’ with the Writers Guild of America, I am not completely protected! Anyone who is well versed in copyright law would be able to verify that. Hence the reason why, if I were to allow someone to read one of my Screenplays’, he / she will have to sign a Non-Disclosure Agreement. If they refuse, then it is a clear indication that they cannot be trusted! In closing, You are welcome to befriend me, and we can discuss this further. Best regards, Kevin

Phillip: I think I dealt with the same music attorney - are you referring to Joe Whatshisname?

Bill C: once again, you have seen through my clandestine subterfuge

Phillip: You know I'm just a simple farmer and don't know what big words like "clandestine" and "subterfuge" mean. I reckon we should a'bring Mr. Joe Whatshisname to my hole in the desert and just a'go Gina Jericho on his ass. And besides...the baby vultures and baby eagles are a'leavin' the nests this month...they gotta eat, too, and we'd be performing a couple of good deeds to society at the same time...for nature, and for musicians. That's a win-win in my book.

Bill C: U bee a sho' nuff bone o' fyde jeanyus!

Kevin, why don't you show the producers and actors the same trust you seem to be seeking and trust that they have no reaaon to steal your idea. Writers think theyve discovered something new with every key stroke. You havent. It would cost them ten times as much in lawsuits then it woukd just to buy your script. And it is starting a relationship on the wrong note. If you are personally financing the project, then fine. do whatever you want. But if you're not, then you need them more than they need you most of the time. this idea that hwood is out to steal your diamond of an idea is utter bullshit and self-sabotaging.

Kevin, I've signed an NDA before for a client because he asked me to and hey, it's his money, but that was to proofread his script and provide notes but if I'm not being paid to sign an NDA then I would flat-out refuse and tell them I'm not interested in reading their script. It does show a distinct sign of amateurism.

I paid a $1,000 for a scriptwriter and he has suddenly disappeared off the radar. Hyan, if you are out there, contact me now.

CJ: Alle just contacted me from an undisclosed location and was hoping that she could get a VIP membership to Script Revolution. She abides.

Oh, boy! All the dope on Alle!

Jorge Prieto, thanks for your words, Brother!

I had never heard of Alle Sergetti so of course I had to look her up on here, read a few of her posts. All I can say is I seriously question the screenwriting abilties of someone who seems unable to put together a simple paragraph that makes any sense.

I didn't have time to read all the responses, but I will throw this out there. I make a point to try every service being mass-marketed to screenwriters including which contests are worth your coin. If someone is considering a service - hit me up and I'll give you the candid answer.

Good Phil: Actually, there were times AS could be quite brilliant. Evil Phil: Really? She did a good job hiding it from me. Good Phil: Aw, get off of AS already. Evil Phil: I did, earlier this morning. She had to go to a meeting.

Omg Phillip!!! :-D

Laurie A: Hey, what have you heard about Ukranianbrides.com? Their website says for twenty five hundred bucks they'll ship me over a "trouble free" wife. Of course that doesn't include airfare and miscellaneous shipping costs. And of course, I'd have to square it with the present Mrs. Hardy and well, she might not want to give up her sewing room.

This is an important thread and one I hope doesn't veer too far off course. I know there are some novice writers here who get preyed upon by sites like the Black List who peddle a dream by offering a service that looks like, on the surface, it's transparent, but is far from. I would urge you to do a Google search on them. There are dozens of threads speaking to the shady practices. Who are their readers exactly? Well, there was one famous thread featuring a letter from the owner of the BL declaring that their readers all had years of industry reading experience. Then, immediately behind that was a post from one writer who's college roommate had been hired by the Black List to read scripts for a few bucks. He had no experience. There are also rumors that some readers are paid higher and are given more work for good reviews. The tease that keeps writers coming back for more. I'll tell you my own experience though. I decided to try it out about a year ago. This was before I did my own research (shame on me). I paid over $200 for housing of the script and a few reads. My scores were 8, 6 and 2. The one that rated me 2 had my main character and my locale wrong. Completely wrong. Like, my main character was a woman named Audrey and he said it was a guy named Phillip wrong. It was clear he mixed notes from another script. I wrote the Black List and they offered me 50% off another read. So if I wanted another read and the hope at that coveted 8, I had to come out of pocket due to them giving me a bad read. But also, how about the anonymous downloads? Who is really reading your script? Bottom line, there is no transparency at all. In fact, there is no integrity at all. They're not the only ones of course. Don't get me started on fake screenwriting "Organizations" or "Associations". Don't be duped. Know EXACTLY what you are paying for and who is reading your script. Demand your money's worth.

I was born a poor Ukranian bride, it wasn't until I was published and the book was delivered to every home in America, as my fingers did the walking, that I was able to afford a divorce. Now my publisher is all online.

Philip, I've found that 'Farmersonly.com is the best "bet" for trouble free... They are typically too tired at the end of the day to give their loved ones a hard time.

Laurie: I didn't know you wrote Fifty Shades of Green. Well done! James: I'm like Achmed the Dead Terrorist and sometimes will hijack my own thread for practice. My AS post was my subtle way of trying to make that point. As far as your point. Great info and along with a few others in the forum have, I've made it abundantly clear how I feel about The Blacklist. It's not user friendly, it's not transparent and it's markets itself for those who want to believe that they're rubbing shoulders with Star Bellied Sneetches. There are other folks out there that give you a lot more for way less money. Furthermore, I'm sure as hell not going to pay one of their hack reviewers (that I write circles around and provide better notes) fifty dollars to review my work. That being said, I bear them no malice subliminal post Blacklist hell in burn.

Stepen Writing "Farmersonly.com down. Good tip sir. Them farmer's brides know who to milk the cows and handle the livestock if you know what I mean. slapping myself in the face

People helping people... That's what it's all about.

seriously, if you find something contest or otherwise, that you are considering, ask me.

When I began my journey as a screenwriter, I read The Hollywood Standard, which is still the best book I’ve seen to teach basic script formatting. A week later, I began writing my first script. I did that using an MS Word template I found online. A few weeks later, I sprung for Final Draft software and retyped my first scripts into FD. In the months that followed, I read several other books including Syd Field’s Foundations of Screenwriting and The Ten Day Screenplay. I also took a self-directed online screenwriting course. Beyond that, I’ve always been empirical in my approach. Early on, I decided to listen to lots of people but march to my own damn drummer. I had only been writing a year when I exchanged scripts with a writer in San Francisco, who told me my first draft script was riddled with formatting errors and was just plain horrible. He dogmatically informed me his script had been rewritten forty times. Over our weekend of correspondence, I told my SF critic that he had a horrible approach to giving feedback and that even in being critical, he should learn how to be encouraging and find something positive to say about another writer’s work. And believe me, at times, that’s even been difficult for me. Yet, I always manage to do so. Last year, I placed at Austin Film Festival for the third consecutive year with a different script each year. I saw my SF guy’s screenplay also placed. It was the same script he was flogging three years earlier. And at that time, he’d been working on it for several years. To me, that’s just f%#king sad. PS, the first draft script my SF buddy thought was horrible placed a few months later at the Screencraft Action Contest, along with two other first drafts I entered. A few weeks later, Screencraft interviewed me about my writing approach. My journey has been a challenging, yet rewarding one. I’ve had some incredible industry folks read my work. I’ve also received a great deal of support and admiration from writers that I respect; good writers, who continue to crank out good work in spite of multiple rejections and other setbacks during the course of their activities. I’ve been both participant and judge of screenplay contests and I can assure you, I always endeavor to treat people with respect. I started this thread to provide people an opportunity to share their experiences. I’m sorry if I don’t agree with the folks that believe just because someone’s been lucky enough to make one or even a few films is anything more than lucky. And just because a film, even a large budget one gets made, that it’s a good piece of work. To the contrary, shitty movies get made all the time. Like I said in another thread earlier today, pardon me if I don’t kiss someone’s ring for having success. Everyone, even established people like Seth Rogen, struggle to get films made. He recently said as much during a Howard Stern interview where he talked about getting funding for Sausage Party. The perceived value of success and it's varying degrees is in the eye of the beholder. So if one wants to follow after the other bleating sheep baying other people’s praises; or adhering to all the accepted, good old boy bullshit out in the either about how to succeed as a screenwriter, sally forth with Godspeed. I choose to follow my own instincts and make a good stab at being an original. Perhaps one day I’ll have my own heard of bleating sheep… naaaah!

Owen wins for his Alle comment. i almost miss her. she was always a bigger villain than myself lol

I dealt with one today. An agency wanted $1,200 to create "a portfolio to show their investors." I told them I didn't pay reading fees and was cautious about dealing with entities that charged them. The conversation ended shortly afterwards.

Tony, I'm pretty sure I know who that is. They've gone down in price if it's the same I'm thinking.

cough Voyage Media? cough

Danny: No naming names... cough probably right. Tony: My first word to the guy with the reading fee would be "blow" and my last word would be "me"

Nope. Someone else. At least the fourth fraud I've met on Stage 32.

@ Tony Cella -- sorry to hear you encountered creeps on Stage32. Did you report them (I hope)?

Tony, a spinoff of a government agency, right?

@Linda: I reported the first one and the site told me they wouldn't get involved. I avoid them at this point. @Laurie: No, but...well...PM me.

Very true. If only there was more good...