Screenwriting : ADVICE NEEDED: writing credit - what is fair? by Phil Parker

I'd say at least 50-50

Hmmm, that is a conundrum... Perhaps just for the competition entry forms that are limited you list both your names as two separate writers—of course then you'd have to decide who's name goes first! Lol! Or perhaps you list yourselves as a team using the ampersand—just for screenplay competitions. Anyway, Phil, your post made me curious about WGA "rules" regarding credit so I looked up "screen credits" on WGA.org. Here's what I found below. Perhaps it will be helpful to you. You'll note it states that to say "written by" implies that you are both the originator of the story as well as the script. Perhaps your credit should be "screenplay by?" Take a look: "The term "story" means all writing covered by the provisions of the Minimum Basic Agreement representing a contribution "distinct from screenplay and consisting of basic narrative, idea, theme or outline indicating character development and action." It is appropriate to award a "Story by" credit when: 1) the story was written under employment under Guild jurisdiction; 2) the story was purchased by a signatory company from a professional writer, as defined in the Minimum Basic Agreement; or 3) when the screenplay is based upon a sequel story written under the Guild's jurisdiction. If the story is based upon source material of a story nature, see "screen story" below. 5. Screen Story Credit for story authorship in the form "Screen Story by" is appropriate when the screenplay is based upon source material and a story, as those terms are defined above, and the story is substantially new or different from the source material. 6. Screenplay A screenplay consists of individual scenes and full dialogue, together with such prior treatment, basic adaptation, continuity, scenario and dialogue as shall be used in, and represent substantial contributions to the final script. A "Screenplay by" credit is appropriate when there is source material of a story nature (with or without a "Screen Story" credit) or when the writer(s) entitled to "Story by" credit is different than the writer(s) entitled to "Screenplay by" credit. 7. "Written by" The term "Written by" is used when the writer(s) is entitled to both the "Story by" credit and the "Screenplay by" credit. This credit shall not be granted where there is source material of a story nature. However, biographical, newspaper and other factual sources may not necessarily deprive the writer of such credit."

Perhaps someone with more experience will help clarify. Lol! Here's the WGA link should you be interested: http://www.wga.org/subpage_writersresources.aspx?id=17. ;)

Hey Mate, Given many/most festivals want a title page with title only, it's not an issue until you place. But many fests permit two or more writers, and when they are posting you can always petition them to indicate both writers in case there was only space for one writer in the application. Any fest where I have had that experience has been most cooperative. Usually story by is not noted in fests. If you follow Guild rules as a protocol, the writer contributing the most words to the screenplay would be listed first in shared writing credit. Also there's a whole set of rules that distinguish the use of x writer "&" y writer, versus x writer "and" y writer. Also, if it is just you with writer credit and it is story by, then it would be "screenplay by" instead of written by. While you're at it, you might want to negotiate a single frame credit for the writing, separate from the story by credit. As for fee, you've done all the heavy writing. Typically, I figure 20% for story and negotiate a percentage for the writing, based upon participation. Contracts and negotiations are so fun, especially when contributions shift. Here's to a fluid dialogue.

Philip: Last year, one of the producers I work with brought me an idea, which became a completed screenplay. His idea and personal experience became the inspiration for the first twelve pages and inciting incident. But even that was highly embellished by me. The rest of the screenplay story and entire script was written and conceived by me. I entered the script in four contests last year and we placed in two and won honorable mention in one. On the script, it’s listed as written by me and story by me and producer X. The work is copyrighted under my name and if he asked me to share writing credit I’d be astonished. If it was me, I stick to my guns as written by Phil Parker and story by producer X and Phil Parker. It’s not a matter of ego, it’s a matter of you did the damn work and should receive credit for it. It my script ever gets made, then I'll be happy to share story credit as I’ve done on the cover page. PS, if someone wants to buy this material, I’ll set it to whoever I want. Producer X hasn’t optioned it or pitched it to anyone. He did use it to connect us with another director who liked it and is having me work on another project. And so it goes.

My two cents... For contests, you both should be listed as writers. The project started with him as he hired you and continued to contribute. However, as the project progressed you did the majority of the screenplay. Perhaps list both your names as independent writers on the entry forms. But on the title page, perhaps be more specific: "story by" and "screenplay by." If the script is ever optioned or makes it to the screen you obviously would clarify who did what, would you not? At this point, you are only considering contest entries. Well, whatever you guys decide, I wish you the best with it! :)

I agree with Beth. For contests you should both be listed as writers. You have a contract for eventual screen credit but that doesn't cover contest entries.

cage match winner takes all!

You lost me at enter screenplay competitions. This is a director, what the heck is the script doing in contests? It should be going into production . Unless you are a permanent writing team, no matter what happens in that contest, it's not going to help either of you. A manager is going to worry that the other guy was the genius (whether that other guy is you or the director), so they aren't going to sign you for writing this. A contest win might help find investors for the film, but I think investors would be more interested in the commercial aspects of the project than the artistic aspects (contest wins). So this doesn't make much sense to me - the director should just find the funding and make the movie and then your agreed upon credits work.

Agree with Bill, if he's a director, why is he wanting to enter it into a comp? Regardless, it's a comp. Put both of you down as writer and when it's actually made, he can be Story by and you can be Screenwriter. I don't think the listing in a comp is really that important but some may argue that it is.

Thank you everyone for taking the time to advise. It truly is helpful. The WGA rules are a bit confusing, though lol. I didn't know there was a difference between using 'and' or '&' when listing the writer's names - big lol. This guy has argued with me that, on IMDB - under 'writing credits' - it does indicate who gets 'story by' or 'screenplay by' recognition. Therefore, having a 'story by' credit - as we agreed he should have ' means he is one of the writers because that is a 'writing credit'. In your opinion - is that a valid argument?

My writing partner and I agreed 50-50 from the start- While I wind up doing most of the typing and spend a lot of hours- my partner has the ability to hone in on specific things I would have never noticed and make them 'right'--he's like the Harvey Keitel character in Pulp Fiction- comes in and cleans up the mess-- finds solutions and helps me get through the road blocks . I can see how it can get complicated if you don't always write with the same partner(s).

For the sake of keeping the relationship on a positive footing - even though I feel manipulated - I'm leaning towards Beth's suggestion. I just got this response from a guy at the Australian Writer's Guild, though -- --------------- "Competitions lead to producers and/or writing jobs. If this script leads to a producer you can tell him what your credit and money arrangements are and there is no reason for a producer not to agree to that. If it leads to a job, that should go to you as the writer. People who offer writing jobs want good writers, not just ideas. They generally have the idea already. Therefore, in both cases, you should have only your name on the project for competition purposes. You could undertake to tell anyone who offers you a writing job as a result of this script that the project and step outline began with your friend. That way there may be a job offer or some benefit for him as well." -------------- Sigh.

I agree with Al. If you want a long term relationship with this person or anybody you collaborate with it should be 50/50. I am in a similar boat I have several scripts where the story is set, I know how it ends. But so far (because I am trying to do several at once) I only have about 30-40 pages of dialogue for each. I want to find other screenwriters that would help me bring it to a finished draft ready to be optioned, sold outright or money raised from donations and investors to produce it independently. Yep. I am a native Brooklyn boy. My Father was a musician and composer. He wrote the music his partner wrote the lyrics. It was always 50/50. Worked out well they both passed away as members of ASCAP. So, yes Mr. Parker use your brother Peter's spidey sense on this one. 50/50.

That's how we write. I have a great idea, give a summary of what should happen then my writing partner goes through and makes it all work. Sometimes I come up with five or six synopsis a month! We have to choose together. We are 50/50 for now, unless he changes his mind.

Paul-- That's it!!! Lightbulb time. I come up with the story idea. Perhaps a one page treatment(synopsis) than He can work on building the character arcs and dialogue. I think that would be a great and productive Ka-Ching. Ka-Ching relationship. Anyone out there in Metro NYC reading this HELLO!!!

Paul-- Okay maybe I got ahead of myself there. I mean I have (12) unfinished scripts(all have endings, but only 30-40 pages of dialogue each) . I have story ideas that I put into a drawer every day. I guess I just got a little ahead of myself. I also feel a little age pressure. I am 63 years old and after spending a lifetime writing ad copy and in sales. I only finished my first screenplay "Hope Saves Manhattan" last year.

Well, my synopsis are generally much longer than that. It is actually a blueprint for the script. Some have even made it to fifty pages!

Stephen- Have you tried a script consultant- I know someone who could fill the role of a 'partner' to help you get your script in finished shape for a couple of hundred bucks- and at the end of it you would own 100 percent- after you go through the 'process' once- you will be able to get your other scripts to a finished state, too. We did it recently, and it was the best decision we could have made.

Steven , not Stephen. And don't have the couple of $100 to spare. But I do appreciate the suggestion.

I'm sorry- long day!!

@Dan - he wrote and directed the short. That's his only 'directing' experience. He tried and failed to adapt it into a feature length screenplay. That's why he hired and paid me. (the deep down core of the story is similar to the short, but it has morphed a lot). I thought he mainly wanted to be a director. That's why I thought he was ok with me taking over, writing the whole thing and getting sole 'written by' credit. Half-way through the project he reveals his dream is to be a screenwriter. WT#!

Al- no worries. Let's just try to help Peter Parker's brother Phil with his problem. Phil when you read this. I still think you should tell him 50/50. But I am not as close to this as you are. It is only a suggestion.

Phil, I'm really sorry you have to go through all of this stuff but it's great info for my storage bank for 'what not to do.' I wish you much success regardless.

Dan is definitely right. And I agree with most people inviting you to think about future collaborations, but at the same time one must know when to take his place. Do you really want to be quiet now in the perspective of a possible future endeavour? If you have a reasonable discussion with him and he does not understand how things work in the business, do you really want to keep working with him? The sad truth about credits is that you need to write 35% of the script to get your name on it, and that if you're consulting or doctoring you get nothing but a flat fee. It sometimes sucks but it's some form of protection. If you write a script and enter a competition or contest, judges will not be looking at the source material so only your name should be mentioned. As mentioned above, "screenplay by" under the "story by" of your friend seems appropriate in your case. The story by gives him rights, but for this screenplay you are the majority rights holder and I would definitely never accept less that 50/50. To be honest it shouldn't be negotiable in your mind because the real gold is the script. A great idea does not always become a great concept, and a great concept is even less likely becomes a great script. There are legions of people with great ideas, we all can, it's definitely not true for delivering a good script. All the best!

I believe your 'petty partner' could be doin' you a favor. 1. You know what he's all about now. 2. He's basically shopping your script. 3. He can't write. 4. If anything good happens with the story, he's back to you because he's not a storyteller.... Now the ball's in your court - where his ego should have left it - and you're smarter :) Happy Easter, Fam!

Well I was lazy but Kathleen's comment was a good reminder. Here's what the WGA states about the % requirement: "a. Percentage Requirements Any writer whose work represents a contribution of more than 33% of a screenplay shall be entitled to screenplay credit, except where the screenplay is an original screenplay. In the case of an original screenplay, any subsequent writer or writing team must contribute 50% to the final screenplay."

You must be credited as a co-writer on the screenplay. If he didn't show you his entire attempts at re-writing, then the only conclusion can be that he wasn't proud of it. That said, a new spin on bad material can quickly transform it and his guarded approach has ended up with you re-inventing anyway! I agree that referring to WGA guidelines is a good idea as they do aim to be precise and fair. I am currently co-writing for a director, putting plot scaffolding in place that creates story arcs which only a screenwriter who uses them can fully understand! These techniques elevate a story that feels trite, scattered and anecdotal to being high concept, honed and commercial: these are the mysterious tricks that are only appreciated and paid for by producers AFTER you've had the big hit. Meanwhile know your worth and claim your rightful credit :)

Phil- Just call Peter enough is enough. Use his Spidey sense. Most of us are suggesting 50/50.

I hope it lives up to it's hype! (ha ha)

Hi Phil, I have no experience in this situation whatsoever, so please discard my thoughts quickly. I have no idea what a contest would suggest in your situation. To my knowledge, I've never read a contest script with a "Story by" someone who isn't the writer. But generally speaking, I would suggest that you stick with the contract in which you are named the writer. I fear if you start giving up credit, you open the door to "give them an inch, they'll take a mile." The precedent could hurt your case later on down the road. Again, mine is a very uneducated opinion.

If your contract says script by you, then stick to that with the contests. Who';s putting out the cash for the contests. If its you, then he really shouldn't say anything. Also if he wants the screenplay credit now, who says he wont try to get it later on? Maybe list him as contributing writer if that makes you feels better.

Thank you everyone for taking the time to advise. Problem solved. Case closed. Cheers.